World of Coins

Other tokens and medals => Not used for payments => Religious and philanthropic medals => Topic started by: oldecurb on December 10, 2009, 09:06:50 AM

Title: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: oldecurb on December 10, 2009, 09:06:50 AM
Picked up recently in with some other coins.  I can't find it listed anywhere.  Help would be appreciated

(http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af190/oldecurb/unknown2.jpg)

(http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af190/oldecurb/unknown1.jpg)

Its about 27mm diameter and appears silver

Thanks in advance

Bruce
Title: Re: Can someone identify this please
Post by: Austrokiwi on December 10, 2009, 09:35:16 AM
Now that is an intriguing piece.

I am sure someone else will identify it but as a test for myself.   make the following comment:

  My best guess is it is mongolian or most likely thai-Lao script. The rim looks very like the type of rim typical of a spindle press as opposed to a lever press.   
Title: Re: Can someone identify this please
Post by: Overlord on December 10, 2009, 09:47:08 AM
It is a Ramtanka; an Indian Temple token. The metal may be silver-coated alloy but I am not sure.
Title: Re: Can someone identify this please
Post by: Austrokiwi on December 10, 2009, 09:57:05 AM
It is a Ramtanka; an Indian Temple token. The metal may be silver-coated alloy but I am not sure.

I couldn't have been more wrong  ;D
Title: Re: Can someone identify this please
Post by: Overlord on December 10, 2009, 09:59:28 AM
The description of the legend/images is as follows:

Obverse Rama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama) and Lakshmana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakshmana); Legend (in slightly corrupt Devanagari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devnagari)): Ram, Lakshman, Janaki (Sita) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sita), Wa (and) Hanuman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanuman). There is a fictitious/frozen date 1700 at the bottom

Reverse Rama and Sita seated (on these later tokens, the seated figure looks like a monkey), Rama's brothers Lakshman (Left), Bharat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharata_(Ramayana)) and Shatrughan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatrughan) (Right) around; Hanuman bowing in front with folded hands

Ref:
Ramatankas: Hindu Religious Tokens. Illustrating Themes from Ramayana by Michael Mitichiner
Title: Re: Can someone identify this please
Post by: oldecurb on December 10, 2009, 08:20:03 PM
Any idea of value?
Title: Re: Can someone identify this please
Post by: Figleaf on December 10, 2009, 10:08:57 PM
Emotional or spiritual value only. There is practically no demand for these pieces. I know one guy who collects religious medals and writes about them. He might be interested. Send me a PM if you want is email addy.

Peter
Title: Re: Can someone identify this please
Post by: Prosit on May 28, 2010, 06:54:01 PM
Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but it is an interesting one.  So If I wanted a batch of temple tokens I could get them for very little money?  That is interesting.

Dale

Emotional or spiritual value only. There is practically no demand for these pieces. I know one guy who collects religious medals and writes about them. He might be interested. Send me a PM if you want is email addy.

Peter
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Abhay on May 29, 2010, 04:23:29 AM
Any idea of value?

They are generally available for Rs. 400 to Rs. 500 (USD 8-10). (Provided they are made of Brass).

Recently, I have seen some Gold Ram tankas being sold in the Auctions for Rs. 25,000 to 40,000 (USD 500-800).

Abhay
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Prosit on May 29, 2010, 05:00:15 AM
While USD 8-10 is not a lot of money, at USD 8-10 each, I also don't consider that "Emotional or spiritual value only".
Dale



They are generally available for Rs. 400 to Rs. 500 (USD 8-10). (Provided they are made of Brass).

Recently, I have seen some Gold Ram tankas being sold in the Auctions for Rs. 25,000 to 40,000 (USD 500-800).

Abhay
Title: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Bimat on May 29, 2010, 04:38:49 PM
They are generally available for Rs. 400 to Rs. 500 (USD 8-10). (Provided they are made of Brass).
Are you sure that they are really so expensive? I myself had bought a fantasy East India Company token for 20 bucks when I was a kid :D It shows a monkey(!!) on the reverse,quite a funny piece actually.I think these Ramatanka's are also not so expensive here,any street side seller will offer them for about 100 bucks (or even less).

Aditya
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Prosit on May 29, 2010, 09:37:45 PM
What I pictured in my mind as inexpensive were modern examples (if they exist) and I imagined them about as expensive as Chuck E Cheese tokens in the USA.  As long as they had interesting researchable images, I thought I might like to get a few hundred.  Looks like I drew a wrong conclusion...  uh, that never happened before  ;D

Dale
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Abhay on May 30, 2010, 06:50:59 AM
Are you sure that they are really so expensive? I myself had bought a fantasy East India Company token for 20 bucks when I was a kid :D It shows a monkey(!!) on the reverse,quite a funny piece actually.I think these Ramatanka's are also not so expensive here,any street side seller will offer them for about 100 bucks (or even less).

Aditya

Dear Aditya,

If the Ramtankas are really old, they are worth Rs. 400-500, but if they are modern fakes, then maybe you can get them cheap.

These Ramtankas were infact Temple Tokens, and most of them have been issued atleast 100 years back.

Last Sunday, I also bought quite a few East India Company coins for Rs. 40 each. Now they are available in all the Gods and Goddess - Ram, Hanuman, Laxmi, Durga, Shiv-parvati, Buddha, Mahavir, Guru nanak and so on. And yes, they are still available in Monkey also. ;D ;D ;D

Abhay
Title: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Bimat on May 30, 2010, 07:00:48 AM
Whoops,didn't know that fakes exist even in temple tokens! ;D ;D

Aditya
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Figleaf on May 30, 2010, 12:38:10 PM
This is a very educational thread for me. Oldecurb's piece has a quality and style I have not seen before. The last pieces Engipress is showing have a totally different style and in spite of the funny date and denomination I appreciate them as collector's items that represent a genuine angle of Indian culture. Even there, you can make different approaches. Oesho once wrote (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,1277.msg5783.html#msg5783) he is interested in the religious angle. I would be more interested in the comic angle, such as one of these passing off Napoleon as an Indian hero.

Peter
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Prosit on May 30, 2010, 02:15:20 PM
I would be interested in understanding what the images communicated to the average citizen who may have used them.  That and simply the fun of amassing a small collection of something I am not likely to ever see here.
Dale


This is a very educational thread for me. Oldecurb's piece has a quality and style I have not seen before. The last pieces Engipress is showing have a totally different style and in spite of the funny date and denomination I appreciate them as collector's items that represent a genuine angle of Indian culture. Even there, you can make different approaches. Oesho once wrote (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,1277.msg5783.html#msg5783) he is interested in the religious angle. I would be more interested in the comic angle, such as one of these passing off Napoleon as an Indian hero.

Peter
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Abhay on May 30, 2010, 02:17:27 PM
One of the coins (with the two cats) is the same coin that Oesho has refered to.

The Words written in Hindi reads "SACH BOLO, POORA TOLO" meaning "SPEAK TRUTH, WEIGH FULL". It refers to the same story of a monkey and the two fighting cats.

Abhay
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Abhay on May 30, 2010, 02:32:09 PM
I would be interested in understanding what the images communicated to the average citizen who may have used them.  That and simply the fun of amassing a small collection of something I am not likely to ever see here.
Dale



Dear Dale,

The images on these coins are generally of Hindu Gods and Goddess. Anyone with a basic knowledge of coins will at once tell you that they are modern fakes.

When I asked the coin dealer that who are the people who purchase these coins, he told me that mostly foreign tourists are the buyers of these coins. One more thing, you will generally find these coins on the roadside outside some Monument where lot of foreign tourists are visiting. Yes, some Indian also buy them, but purely as a "Lucky Charm' for the image of his/her favourite God/Goddess. That is the reason why you can find almost all the Popular Gods like Ram, Hanuman, Shiv, Lakshmi (Goddess of wealth), Durga (Goddess of Power), Saraswati (Goddess of Education) etc on these coins. Can you believe, that as per Hindu Mythology, there are supposed to be 84 Crores (840 Millions) gods and goddess in the Universe?  :o ???

Abhay
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Prosit on May 30, 2010, 02:40:54 PM
You mention "Lucky Charm".  Now that ties in nicely with stuff I already collect.  I collect lucky tokens.  I have a series of 6 or 7 Chinese US Silver Dollar Sized medals that are sold to tourist and have images that refer to very old semi-religious folk tales.  ....840 million gods and goddesses?  Now that is a collecting opportunity if I ever heard of  one  :-)  Thanks for your post.  Very interesting

Dale


 
Dear Dale,

The images on these coins are generally of Hindu Gods and Goddess. Anyone with a basic knowledge of coins will at once tell you that they are modern fakes.

When I asked the coin dealer that who are the people who purchase these coins, he told me that mostly foreign tourists are the buyers of these coins. One more thing, you will generally find these coins on the roadside outside some Monument where lot of foreign tourists are visiting. Yes, some Indian also buy them, but purely as a "Lucky Charm' for the image of his/her favourite God/Goddess. That is the reason why you can find almost all the Popular Gods like Ram, Hanuman, Shiv, Lakshmi (Goddess of wealth), Durga (Goddess of Power), Saraswati (Goddess of Education) etc on these coins. Can you believe, that as per Hindu Mythology, there are supposed to be 84 Crores (840 Millions) gods and goddess in the Universe?  :o ???

Abhay
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Salvete on July 10, 2010, 02:13:40 PM
It would be easy to collect many types for next to no cash in India.  E-bay is full of worn Temple Tokens offered at very high prices.  Anyone outside India with a friend or helpful contact there could probably get lots sent to him for under $3 each, but solid silver and gold ones, as somebody wrote earlier, will cost tens or hundreds of dollars.  And bear in mind that the resale market is rather small compared to  Akbar rupees.  It is also sensible to be aware of the difference in availablity and cost of genuinely old ones, and new fabrications - and you cannot rely on dates, which are usually fictitious.  Still it is an interesting and cheap interest.

Salvete
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: LinZi on September 05, 2011, 08:05:29 PM
In 2005 I picked up five different temple tokens in Bodh Gaya Bihar. I highly doubted they were worth anything-- but seemed very interesting to me. I am not sure if all are new-- or if any are older at all. They all have interesting designs though. All but one have a psuedo "East India Company" on one side with various dates (I am sure false) of 1616, 1818, 1834. The other sides show a variety of Gods and Goddesses (I picked ones I found interesting-- they were in a giant bin). I am not sure what they are made out off, one is lighter than the rest.

In addition, I have one this is different-- more of a true "rama tanka". It has Ram, Sita, Hanuman, and 4 others on one side (Ram and Sita seated below an umbrella). The other side has a somewhat crude version of Hanuman. For this one-- I entertain the possibility that it might actually be older-- though I really have no clue.
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Figleaf on September 05, 2011, 08:14:54 PM
Sorry, they date from the late '80s. See this post (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,1277.msg5783.html#msg5783) by a renowned expert of Indian coins.

Peter
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: LinZi on September 05, 2011, 08:33:48 PM
Thanks Peter... so the "East India" tokens were probably from the 80s.... what about the one different one-- the Ram-Sita-Hanuman token? Any ideas, or probably from the same time?
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Figleaf on September 05, 2011, 10:04:46 PM
You will find a similar scene on the first token in this thread. Presumably, older tokens are silver or silvered.

Peter
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: malj1 on September 06, 2011, 12:33:55 AM
Here they are found in dealers junk trays. This is the only one I have, can someone interpret this?

(http://web.archive.org/web/20151111100701/http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/2790/rama1p.jpg) (http://web.archive.org/web/20151111100714/http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1586/rama2x.jpg)

29mm brass.
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Prosit on September 06, 2011, 01:54:46 AM
I think they are wonderful and wish I could get a handfull of different for junk box prices  :(
Dale

Here they are found in dealers junk trays....
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Abhay on September 06, 2011, 05:11:41 AM
Here they are found in dealers junk trays. This is the only one I have, can someone interpret this?

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/2790/rama1p.jpg) (http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1586/rama2x.jpg)

29mm brass.

This brass token shows Lord Ganesha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha) on the one side, and on the other side, it shows Riddhi and Siddhi, the two consorts of Lord Ganesha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consorts_of_Ganesha). 

The token reads "Shree Ganeshay Namah" and "Shubh Laabh and Ridhhi Sidhhi" on both sides.

Abhay
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: malj1 on September 06, 2011, 05:39:53 AM
Thank you, a great deal of information there. This one I believe is quite old? I have had it for many years.
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: $$ on September 06, 2011, 05:47:37 AM
Dear All

Last week i have seen Shri Sai baba image on the coin dated 1616. I wondered and asked the seller whether it is genuine, she confidentily argued with me for long time till the time one of his colleque joined her and he started fighting with me on the topic. I explained him that if he want to fight with me, I can sue you all to jail (Behind bars) for selling FAKE coins. Public gathered there (Road passer) and asked me what happened. I gave the reason and asked them one question, Is Shri Sai baba was there in 1616 ? Baba was in 1900's

The dealer was shocked and apologies me and said sorry to me.

Samir

Thank you, a great deal of information there. This one I believe is quite old? I have had it for many years.
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Prosit on September 06, 2011, 05:52:34 AM
 ;D  I like that story!

Reminds be of the guy that argued with me about the 1776 US Trade Dollar made at the San Francisco mint.
lol. The mint wasn't even built then.
Dale





Dear All

Last week i have seen Shri Sai baba image on the coin dated 1616. I wondered and asked the seller whether it is genuine, she confidentily argued with me for long time till the time one of his colleque joined her and he started fighting with me on the topic. I explained him that if he want to fight with me, I can sue you all to jail (Behind bars) for selling FAKE coins. Public gathered there (Road passer) and asked me what happened. I gave the reason and asked them one question, Is Shri Sai baba was there in 1616 ? Baba was in 1900's

The dealer was shocked and apologies me and said sorry to me.

Samir

Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Figleaf on September 06, 2011, 02:41:39 PM
Excellent story, Samir. People need education. I understand that sellers want to make a living and need the money, but that's no reason to be dishonest. If you don't know, say you don't know.

Peter
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: $$ on September 07, 2011, 05:43:56 AM
Thanks Sir

If have been got cheated by some dealers in mumbai, when i restarted collecting, but now they give me the genuine coins and not even show me the fake or forge thinks by saying it is not for you sir, i only learn from hunting experience and from WOC experts comment and advise.

Really from bottom of my heart I thanks WOC gave path to walk in right direction.

Samir

Excellent story, Samir. People need education. I understand that sellers want to make a living and need the money, but that's no reason to be dishonest. If you don't know, say you don't know.

Peter
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: rohitsud04 on January 29, 2013, 01:36:53 PM
Hi All

I  have come into possession of a ram tanka. One of my friends saw this and said its gold or gold plated.

1. can someone tell me how to identify if this is a genuine coin or fake?
2. how do i identify if its gold / gold plated / copper?  :-[
3. What can be tentative value of this coin ?

thanks

Scan Removed-Moderator.
Title: Re: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: paisepagal on January 29, 2013, 04:35:40 PM
Why has the image been removed ?
Title: Ramtanka: Indian Temple token
Post by: Bimat on January 29, 2013, 04:36:49 PM
Because the same image (and question) has been posted elsewhere thrice.

Aditya