World of Coins

Collecting coins => Cleaning, conservation and storage => Topic started by: UK Decimal + on October 29, 2009, 11:34:18 AM

Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 29, 2009, 11:34:18 AM
Thank you.   We are very alike in our views.

I am wondering if Proof/BU will deteriorate badly if left open to the air in an album.   When I look at some Crowns that I got about five years ago (admittedly to circulation standard, from the Post Office), it is surprising how much they have dulled.   But it does make them easier to scan than with a brilliant finish!

I think that I shall probably be going for the album option unless anyone can talk me out of it.   That means that I shall open packs as necessary but keep year sets in proper display boxes intact.

Bill.
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: a3v1 on October 29, 2009, 11:51:22 AM
I am wondering if Proof/BU will deteriorate badly if left open to the air in an album. 
Bill,
Many metals, especially silver, will detoriate if left open to the air for a prolonged period of time. But in my albums no coin is left open to the air as I always am using self-adhesive coinholders. These cardboard coinholders have a crystal clear acid free window and are closed hermetically.
Regards,
a3v1 
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 29, 2009, 12:03:29 PM
Ah!   Good, that is the sort of thing that I'm looking for.

I have a few Proofs that are mounted in 5mm x 5mm card with a clear insert the size of the coin and assume that these are the sort of thing that you're referring to.   Any idea where I might get suitable cards and album pages in the UK?

Bill. 
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: a3v1 on October 29, 2009, 12:29:58 PM
I have a few Proofs that are mounted in 5mm x 5mm card with a clear insert the size of the coin and assume that these are the sort of thing that you're referring to.   Any idea where I might get suitable cards and album pages in the UK?
Bill.
These cards will be 5cm x 5cm rather than 5mm x 5mm. ;) Several brands, both German and Dutch, are on sale everywhere in the Netherlands.
My favourite brand is "Importa". Their website has a section in English as well, so probably their coincards and albums also are on sale in England. Try www.importa.nl (You can also order online).
If ordering, make sure you order the self-adhesive coincards. They also sell the (cheaper) coincards that need to be stapled. These "staple cards" are less effective and also may damage the pages of your coin albums.
Regards,
a3v1
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 29, 2009, 12:39:22 PM
Bill.
These cards will be 5cm x 5cm rather than 5mm x 5mm. ;)

That is the problem with expecting an Englishman to think metric.   I should have put 2" x 2".

Just a thought, I should be visiting Amsterdam soon; do you know anywhere there that might have them?

Bill.
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Bimat on October 29, 2009, 02:23:06 PM
The self adhesive coin holders are available here,but the tag 'Made In China' makes me afraid. ;D But they look very attractive than the stapled ones.

Both types of holders are cheap here-the self adhesive cost 150 INR (~3 US$) for 50 pieces,while the others cost 100 INR for 50 pieces 8)

I keep all my coins in these coin holders,and then the coin holders are transferred to my coin album(which needs to be neatly organized now ::)).
Aditya
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Bimat on October 29, 2009, 02:38:39 PM
And to comment on how far you should persue your collection-I think I'm too young and unexperienced to answer your question ;) My ultimate answer would be to go ahead with whatever you are collecting till a saturation level is attained (having a complete collection/not having only the scarce varieties which you can not afford etc).
My own experience is that though you have a specific theme of collection,you always come across some coins which do not really fit into your collection,but it goes directly to your coin album. :)It has happened with me several times..For me,there is no specific boundary as such..

Aditya
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 29, 2009, 03:00:22 PM
I agree.   I'm now trying to find a local source of the white card holders and suitable album pages.

At least, once my main collection (all UK decimals) is complete I will only have to add new years to it.   I will probably cover other coins by pages in a separate album, depending on how many pages I need.

I think that I have the ideas on how to proceed but I am always willing to listen to anyone else.

Thank you.

Bill.
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: a3v1 on October 29, 2009, 03:04:38 PM
Just a thought, I should be visiting Amsterdam soon; do you know anywhere there that might have them?
Bill, Assuming that this forum doesn't allow posting specific names and adresses of dealers, I'll be sending you a personal message.
Regards,
a3v1
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 29, 2009, 03:18:32 PM
Message received and reply sent.   Thanks very much.   This shows how we can help each other.

Bill.
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Figleaf on October 29, 2009, 03:59:54 PM
The self adhesive coin holders are available here,but the tag 'Made In China' makes me afraid. ;D But they look very attractive than the stapled ones.

You have a point to be wary, Aditya. The Chinese are not known for their scruples when it comes to safety in products and safety is an important consideration when you use coin cartons. The plastic film that forms the window may affect your coins if they contain plasticizer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticizer). Since it is traditional and cheap to use plasticizer, I would suspect the Chinese cartons are dangerous until otherwise proven. The only way to prove it is to make a ten year test as below.

Bill, I worry over your crowns becoming dull. Are you sure you are using plastic without plasticizer? I would advise you to do a little test. Take a dull crown that you bought shiny at least ten years ago out of its carton. Rub it firmly with soft cloth (old baby clothes are perfect). If the brilliance returns and you get a malodorous black spot on the cloth, you got bad plastic.

You can imitate the self adhesive look with hard glue, sold here in hard plastic tubes with a bottom that can be screwed up.

I am not sure self-adhesive coin cartons will keep the coin airtight. I noticed that the glued parts can come apart again when the carton contains a big or thick coin. As a precaution, I keep my cartons closed with pincers for at least 24 hours, to make the glue harden while the carton is closed. Anyway, this is less of a problem if you live in a non-polluted environment (Mars, for instance) or if you consider that many people find natural toning attractive.

Peter
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: asm on October 29, 2009, 04:29:33 PM
I am not sure self-adhesive coin cartons will keep the coin airtight. I noticed that the glued parts can come apart again when the carton contains a big or thick coin. As a precaution, I keep my cartons closed with pincers for at least 24 hours, to make the glue harden while the carton is closed. Anyway, this is less of a problem if you live in a non-polluted environment (Mars, for instance) or if you consider that many people find natural toning attractive.
Peter
With the old Indiancoins, especially copper Dams of the Mughal series and other state Paisa and Takka which are all very thick, There is a major problem. I have to use Holders a few sizes bigger than the coin and then staple the holder. If I do not use the larger holders, The plastic tears and the coin pops out.

Indian cities are polluted and dusty. Unless I use these holders the coins tarnish in no time. I only hope that the holders I have are plastizer free. I was assured that they are acid and oil free. I only hope that they refer to the plasticizer as oil.

I almost lost my entire collection of British India Bank Notes which I had put in an album and kept it in a locker, free from dust and sunlight. I did not open it for tow or three years. Oil has leached out of the plastic in a few pages but I could salvage most of my collection. A few coins - Local FSS issues which were in another album showed rust marks. I was fortunate that they were current circulation issues and I did not have trouble replacing them. However this was before I started usin the coin holders. British India silvers and coppers had tarnished and I had to use soft cleaning to get the coins atleast in 'lookable' state. I am trying to replace that lot with new purchases. (I will try your recomendation of light rubbing with a soft - may be khitted cotton - fabric) to see if I can salvege a few..

I only hope the suppliers do not fool the buyers as they are not only fooling a buyer but ruining a part of world history.

Amit
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Figleaf on October 29, 2009, 04:36:43 PM
I will try your recomendation of light rubbing with a soft - may be khitted cotton - fabric) to see if I can salvege a few..

A method I have heard about but not tried to remove the plasticizer residue is a soft eraser.

Peter
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 29, 2009, 04:37:54 PM
It's only recently that I've started getting Proof/BU coins and I haven't opened any of them yet, with the exception of one of the £5 for £5 Olympics BU which I am carrying in my pocket to give it a circulated look.   It could also attract the attention of other collectors or someone who might say "I've got a couple of them, do you want them?".   I believe that there's lots of coins that could be obtained that way just by showing someone that you're interested.

My first choice is for coins in the very first stage of circulation and I have many straight from the bag after it had been emptied into a till.   This, or any 'almost uncirculated' is what I desire.

I'm still wary about opening sealed Royal Mint packs unless I know that I can store the coins safely afterwards.   It's not that I have them as an investment but I want to keep them looking nice, and I think that the Royal Mint products are possibly some of the best quality available.   I do also have a few second-hand proofs which I want to care for although they are no longer perfect.

Further ideas are welcome.

Bill.
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Bimat on October 29, 2009, 05:08:55 PM
I don't like the appearance of stapled holders,but so far I have used them because I was not very sure about the quality of China made self adhesive holders.However,I'll be taking a risk this time,I'm buying them in the next coin fair (there is only one dealer who sells self adhesive coin holders,from Madras!What we get here are the normal holders),at-least for my bimetallics ,because I want them to look attractive. :)

Aditya
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 30, 2009, 05:29:39 PM
I've got some of the adhesive card holders on the way from my 'tame' dealer.   I've given him an initial order for packs of 25, one each for £5, £2, £1, and 50p, which should be a good start for my 'best' coins.

Next time I go shopping, I will try to get a suitable album with pages to take the holders.   I think that I can get them locally.   I might also get a pack of mixed pages for miscellaneous coins outside the normal collection, depends on what I can get.

Further reports will follow!

Bill.
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: asm on October 30, 2009, 08:32:35 PM
Bill,
Out here in India, we get the coin holders in vatious size of windows. Starting at 17 mm and moving up. 20 mm, 22.5 mm, 25 mm, 27 mm, 29 mm, 31 mm, 33 mm, 35 mm, 37 mm & 40 mm. However for the thicker coins you will need to use mostlikely the holder one size above the actual fit. This will prevent the plastic stretching and the coin popping out.
Also please remember what (I believe) Peter had mentioned. Uou will need to keep them pressed for some time after you have put your coin in to allow the adhesive to cure.
Once you have the coins in the holder and are looking for the plastic sheets to house the collection, make sure that you have the 2" x 2" holder. I had my aunt send me some from the US and I got a few having 1.5" x 1.5" size.
Amit
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 30, 2009, 08:54:50 PM
Thanks for the tips Amit.

I ordered the holders from a dealer who uses them, quoting the coins that they are required for, so there should be no problems.   He will know the right ones, but anyway I've only ordered 25 of each to start with and if they're not right I can always put them to 'best use'.   I'll order a proper supply when I'm used to using them.   I have an idea about a way of clamping them shut, perhaps overnight.

The pages I should be able to get from a large stationer in town, so I shall be able to see what sizes they have.   I'll be taking a sample of what I want to put in them.   I think that they also do a pack of about six sheets for different sizes which might be useful for holding mixed coins as my collection grows.

Holders in the post to me, and I shall be going shopping tomorrow.   All organised  8)

Bill.
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: a3v1 on October 30, 2009, 09:53:04 PM
Bill,
The coinholders of most brands usually are 50mm x 50 mm (or 2" x 2"). There are two sizes of coin albums. Small size with pages to accomodate 12 coin holders. Or regular size with pages to accomodate 20 coin holders.
Regards,
a3v1
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on November 01, 2009, 12:58:00 PM
So far, so good - but only so-so.

I have an album and a pack of three sheets each of large, medium and small coin holders.   Unfortunately the large size is exactly 2" x 2" so it won't hold a 2" x 2" holder without trimming, although there is enough space on one side which would have permitted a slightly wider slot.   I shall be taking this up with the supplier of the album.

I'm currently experimenting with different combinations of what to have on a page.   At the moment, I'm using it for crowns, silver 3d and brass 3d and it looks quite good.   I shall be receiving some more of these coins in the next few days which should improve the appearance.

Spacing coins in the album will need careful thought.   Once I have it right, I'll tell you how it is laid out.

Bill.
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: chrisild on November 01, 2009, 01:40:22 PM
In case anybody is looking for "alternative" ways of storing coins, here is something different ...
http://www.muenzen-album.de/artikel/muenztableau.html

Have not used that system, so I cannot tell how good or bad it is. The basic idea - each coin is in some holder, and the holders can easily be rearranged in that "box" - sounds interesting. Now all I need is a place (coin show) where I can see that thing in real life.

Christian
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on November 01, 2009, 03:37:40 PM
Thoughts on the 2" x 2" holders and clear envelopes.

I like the idea of using 2" x 2" containers of some sort but the problem is then storing them.   What size were the holders for the transparancies that we used to have from our colour films?   The size seems about right and the storage system for them, long moulded plastic boxes usually, would seem ideal.

Can someone come up with some measurements?   Would the coin holders fit?

Bill.
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: a3v1 on November 01, 2009, 04:31:05 PM
Thoughts on the 2" x 2" holders and clear envelopes.

I like the idea of using 2" x 2" containers of some sort but the problem is then storing them.   What size were the holders for the transparancies that we used to have from our colour films?   The size seems about right and the storage system for them, long moulded plastic boxes usually, would seem ideal.

Can someone come up with some measurements?   Would the coin holders fit?
Bill,
These containers for storage of transparancies are perfect for storing 2" x 2" coinholders as long as you put the coinholders in with the little lips sideways.
I've been using them for many years to store the coins I don't want in my albums.
Regards,
a3v1
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on November 01, 2009, 05:13:59 PM
Thinks.   Where can I find some?  ???

Bill.
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Bimat on November 01, 2009, 05:21:16 PM
I think you can get them from the same supplier who provided you the coin holders.I would recommend the regular sized ones which can accommodate 20 coin holders.(which I use)

Aditya
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on November 01, 2009, 05:29:59 PM
I'll have a word in my pharmacy (who deal with photographic items) and also a professional photographer near there on Tuesday.   If I can find them locally, I can choose which ones seem best, otherwise I'll phone my coin dealer although he doesn't advertise them.  8)

Bill.
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Bimat on November 02, 2009, 05:40:51 PM
I'll have a word in my pharmacy (who deal with photographic items) and also a professional photographer near there on Tuesday.   If I can find them locally, I can choose which ones seem best, otherwise I'll phone my coin dealer although he doesn't advertise them.  8)

Also make sure that the plastic sheets are of good quality,otherwise it will badly affect your coin holders,just like in case of asm.. ::)

Aditya
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on November 04, 2009, 08:29:18 PM
I think that I now have storage methods solved.

Starting with an album and coin pages with holding strips for large, medium or small coins, I am now able to deal with loose coins.

I have also found similar pages for holding 20 'photo slides' which are perfect for taking either the 2" x 2" card holders or 2" x 2" clear envelopes.

Over the next few days / weeks / months / years I will work on making up albums to display my collection.   I still have to think about the final arrangement but the equipment is ready for whatever I decide and is readily obtainable, holders and clear envelopes from my dealer and the albums and pages from a local stationer.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

Bill.
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Figleaf on November 04, 2009, 11:11:16 PM
Have you asked the seller of the pages about plasticizer? I don't know what's for sale in Britain, but such pages as you describe, when for sale here, invariably come from China or Central and Eastern Europe and they contain plasticizer. In fact, all my Russian proofs looked like and were sold to me as unc, because they were covered under the typical grey plasticizer film.

Peter
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: UK Decimal + on November 04, 2009, 11:38:55 PM
It's my intention that any coin that is in high condition will be held in a holder.   The ones supplied by my dealer are by Hartbergers and clearly marked "Made in Holland" on the boxes.   Coins in an intermediate condition will be in a clear envelope and only the lower grades will be directly in album pages.

I foresee several albums with my UK decimals all either sealed in holders if they represent the best condition that I am likely to get, with ones waiting for upgrading to higher quality in clear envelopes.   With the 20-place 'photo slides' pages, I shall have one or more years per page depending on the number of types issued.   The 'photo slides' pages can also hold a capsule.   Pre-decimal coins are likely to be put directly into the 'coin' type pages as I am unlikely to have many of high quality.   Proof sets will remain in their cases.

My nephew, who lives with me, collects 'coins that he likes' rather than any particular country or theme.   We shall be able to share spare pages 'to best advantage'.

Bill.
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: bruce61813 on November 05, 2009, 02:09:59 AM
Any of the pages made from Mylar, or polyethylene are fine, neither use plasticizers. It is the vinyl plastics that have the problems.

Bruce
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Bimat on November 24, 2009, 07:55:50 AM
Just bought 50 pieces of self adhesive coin holders.I haven't got them yet,but will definitely share my experience after I get them.He is quite reputed dealer on E-bay India,so I hope there will not be any problem with holders. ::)

Aditya
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: bruce61813 on November 24, 2009, 04:22:39 PM
Those should be fine, the 'plastic window' in them is safe, and generally covers the carboard. Some of the better types use  a non-acid cardboard also, soyou should be good  all around.

Bruce
Title: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Bimat on November 26, 2009, 04:34:35 PM
My holders arrived today.I'm very happy to see their quality.E-bay is not that bad ;)

Aditya
Title: Re: Plastic in coin cartons and plasticizer
Post by: Paulsoumyaj on October 01, 2020, 07:28:46 PM
Hi...started putting my coins into a coin album (made in china). Now reading more on this in WoC I am planning to store these in cardboard Coinholders with a transparent sheet 100% acid-free plasticizer (as claimed by the manufacturer) and put them into coin holder sheets. However these coinholder sheets are probably made in China. Is this a workable solution?

Requesting guidance.