World of Coins

Research and reference => Numismatics => Topic started by: BC Numismatics on October 25, 2009, 07:28:45 PM

Title: What is a medal-coin?
Post by: BC Numismatics on October 25, 2009, 07:28:45 PM
Peter,
  What is wrong with using the term 'medal-coin'? I am not the only one who uses it.Martin also does as well,especially in relation to the deluge of medal-coins that are churned out in the name of New Zealand every year.

Aidan.
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Figleaf on October 25, 2009, 08:06:43 PM
What's wrong with it is that it irritates people. You lose goodwill and gain nothing by using the term. That's a bad deal.

Peter
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Prosit on October 26, 2009, 12:08:56 AM
So how would I describe my Austrian 1879 2-Gulden Wedding piece.  I always considered it a medal-coin or a coin-medal.  Maybe a commemorative?

Dale


What's wrong with it is that it irritates people. You lose goodwill and gain nothing by using the term. That's a bad deal.

Peter
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: thelawnet on October 26, 2009, 01:04:14 AM
So how would I describe my Austrian 1879 2-Gulden Wedding piece.  I always considered it a medal-coin or a coin-medal.  Maybe a commemorative?

Dale



I'm not familiar with this piece, but commemorative sounds right to me.

Modern coins of this ilk are essentially numismatic products, and the term NCLT (non-circulating legal tender) seems best to me, to reflect the fact that their purpose is not to serve as currency, but to make money for the mint.
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: chrisild on October 26, 2009, 01:08:39 AM
Guess most collectors would call it a coin. (Doesn't it even say ZWEI GULDEN on the edge?) Of course there are pieces that could be considered hybrid; think of those Icelandic medals (umm, coins) dated 1930 commemorating the Alþingi jubilee. But it seems to me that you are looking for a term that describes very few specific cases only ...

Christian
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Prosit on October 26, 2009, 01:21:50 AM
Not modern at all unless you consider 1879 modern.  Here it is
Dale

"Modern coins of this ilk are essentially numismatic products, and the term NCLT "

I'm not familiar with this piece, but commemorative sounds right to me.
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Prosit on October 26, 2009, 01:26:26 AM
Yes it does among other inscriptions.
Dale

(Doesn't it even say ZWEI GULDEN on the edge?)
Christian
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Prosit on October 26, 2009, 01:30:12 AM
There is no rotation, the obverse is oriented the same as the reverse.

Dale

So it's obviously a coin-medal, but with medal-coin rotation.
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 26, 2009, 01:31:42 AM
No general term need ever be used.   Just put it as fact, e.g:

UK 2009 £5 500yrs Accession Henry VIII - BU*
UK 2009 £5 150yrs Big Ben - Proof only*
UK 2009 £5 Countdown to 2012 (3) Swimming - Circulation*

* Note that at this stage I do not know whether these will all be circulation coins or not, but I am just using them as examples.   Proof, BU, Circ, etc. are definatite descriptions and 'only' can be added when necessary.

Where applicable, descriptions like 'Platinum Piedfort Proof' can be used.   As I have said before, one has to be very careful about using terms, even 'NCLT', before the plans for the year are disclosed and even after that, no general term is necessary; put full details every time and avoid confusion.

Bill.
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Prosit on October 26, 2009, 01:33:50 AM
I will have to take your word for that as here it is called medal orientation or medal aligned   ;)

It is not in my krause but I have seen it in other catalogs listed as a medallic coin.  OOPS!  medallic issue actually.

Dale
Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Prosit on October 26, 2009, 01:56:24 AM
Ahhh  I understand now  ;D  I was tempted to do that but..... I kinda like it here

Dale

Title: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Prosit on October 26, 2009, 02:05:29 AM
OMG, I don't know if those are coins or not but I would really love to have one.
I think they are beautiful.  Also the 1904 Saint Louis MEDAL is worth drooling over, IMO  :)
Dale


Of course there are pieces that could be considered hybrid; think of those Icelandic medals (umm, coins) dated 1930 commemorating the Alþingi jubilee. Christian
Title: Re: What is a medal coin?
Post by: UK Decimal + on October 26, 2009, 03:55:31 PM
I will stick on the lines of replies that I have given previously on this subject.

COIN   Use the full definition such as:
UK 2009 or 2010 50p Blue Peter High Jump (http://www.royalmint.com/olympicgames/BluePeterCoinDesign.aspx).   Likewise:
UK 2009 £5 Henry VIII Platinum Piedfort (http://www.royalmint.com/store/BritishPlatinum/UKH8PP.aspx)
It is a coin if it is (or was) legal tender with the value shown on it.

BULLION   This is produced for its metal value and has no face value:
UK 2010 Gold Sovereign (http://www.royalmint.com/store/BritishGold/UKB10RN.aspx)

MEDAL   An award for a heroic act, but having no face value, such as:
The Victoria Cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross)

MEDALLION   Issued to commemorate an occasion, theme or event, but having no legitimate face value such as :
WWF Panda Bear (http://www.royalmint.com/store/Medals/WWFS6.aspx)

Bill.
Title: Re: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Austrokiwi on October 26, 2009, 04:11:04 PM
One can get very confused very quickly.   Medal-coin just sounds clumsy..........Though in certain contexts it may work.   Now as to the discussion about medal Orientation of coin orientation, some true coins do have a medal orientation.  Eg: 1773 Maria Theresa Taler
Title: Re: What is a medal coin?
Post by: Figleaf on October 26, 2009, 08:20:34 PM
The only pieces worthy of the name medal coin I can think of are discussed here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,313.0.html). The one discussed above didn't circulate, so I wouldn't call it a coin and it has a denomination, no matter how well hidden, so I wouldn't call it a medal. (In Dutch, medaillon is a small amulet, to be worn on a chain around the neck or a good piece of meat. :))

Peter
Title: Re: What is a medal-coin?
Post by: Figleaf on October 27, 2009, 11:54:29 AM
Contentious tail of thread removed with OK from moderator.

Peter
Title: Re: What is a medal-coin?
Post by: RHM22 on December 27, 2009, 03:15:42 PM
19th century European numismatics is riddled with so-called "semi-medallic issues", which are basically medals that were given a face value, but not legal tender status. Many did circulate, as evidenced by an earlier post by Figleaf.
Title: Re: What is a medal-coin?
Post by: Prussian1 on December 27, 2009, 06:29:54 PM
19th century European numismatics is riddled with so-called "semi-medallic issues", which are basically medals that were given a face value, but not legal tender status. Many did circulate, as evidenced by an earlier post by Figleaf.

You can go back further than the 19th century. Here are a few of them.
Padeborn Germany issued three of them in the 18th century. The 1719 Regiments Taler (sede vacante). The 1761 sede vacante Taler and the 1783 Election of Wilhelm Anton Taler. Also, Sweden during the occupation of Pomerania issued medallic Talers in 1709. There are many more that were issued. It has been debated over by many experts if any of the above mentioned Talers were of legal tender. 
Title: Re: What is a medal-coin?
Post by: RHM22 on December 27, 2009, 06:46:22 PM
You can go back further than the 19th century. Here are a few of them.
Padeborn Germany issued three of them in the 18th century. The 1719 Regiments Taler (sede vacante). The 1761 sede vacante Taler and the 1783 Election of Wilhelm Anton Taler. Also, Sweden during the occupation of Pomerania issued medallic Talers in 1709. There are many more that were issued. It has been debated over by many experts if any of the above mentioned Talers were of legal tender. 

18th century coins are one of my weak areas, but I see what you mean. Some doubt the validity of the term "semi-medallic", but I think it's perfectly acceptable. Even the simplified version "coin-medal" is acceptable in some instances to describe certain European pieces minted as late the mid-20th century.
Title: Re: What is a medal-coin?
Post by: translateltd on December 27, 2009, 07:31:34 PM
I don't really have a problem with the term either, to designate a piece that is essentially a medallic issue as you describe, but unfortunately it is now inextricably linked in the minds of our membership with a recently banned member who held strong views on the subject, and offensive views on much else, which rather gave it a bad press ...

Title: Re: What is a medal-coin?
Post by: RHM22 on December 28, 2009, 12:07:45 AM
I don't really have a problem with the term either, to designate a piece that is essentially a medallic issue as you describe, but unfortunately it is now inextricably linked in the minds of our membership with a recently banned member who held strong views on the subject, and offensive views on much else, which rather gave it a bad press ...



I understand what you mean. I didn't the member's messages, so I didn't know that bit.
Title: Re: What is a medal-coin?
Post by: chrisild on December 28, 2009, 01:27:39 AM
As far as that particular topic is concerned, you did not miss much. It could actually be a handy term term if applied selectively. But if somebody uses it for pretty much every coin that cannot be had at face, and pretends it is commonly used, that defeats the purpose, I think.

R.I.P., M.-C. :)

Christian