World of Coins

Other tokens and medals => Transportation tokens => Ferry, toll road and bridge tokens. => Topic started by: FosseWay on August 01, 2019, 09:03:54 AM

Title: Göteborg, Swedish American Line tokens
Post by: FosseWay on August 01, 2019, 09:03:54 AM
This last - ship money item is of interest and could be added to the listing of Ships tokens on WoT I was unaware of these.

Here is a picture of mine. You are welcome to use it on WoT if you can't find a better image  ;D

Brass, 21.7 mm, 2.45 g

More info on Svenska Amerika Linien here: Swedish American Line - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_American_Line) (unusually for a Swedish subject, the English WP article is much more informative than the Swedish).

I have filed this token under "Tokens used for payment" rather than "Transport tokens", and then under Göteborg since the shipping line had its HQ here ("here" being just over the river from my office window!)
Title: Re: Göteborg ferry tokens
Post by: Kushi on August 07, 2019, 05:02:03 PM
Is this piece a ferry token, for fare payment? Why this thread title for a SAL token?
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 07, 2019, 06:46:44 PM
See this section of WoT (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Sweden:_Transport_tokens).

This highlights a problem of growing importance with WoT. It is set up and meant as a collaborative undertaking. Instead, sections are treated as the "property" or even "responsibility" of the person who set it up. Very well-meaning members provide pictures, comments or information, but it has proven nigh impossible to move them to insert it themselves. Yet, that is the intention. Since malj1 and I have set up many sections, we are increasingly expected to act as intermediaries. It works less and less well, not because we want it that way, but because our time and energy are finite. It works even less for sections maintained by people who seldom if ever come to WoC, like Scroggs. They don't even see these well-meant donations.

And yet, putting stuff in is not difficult. For text, there is a short manual here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Basic_instructions). Tables are a question of copy-and-paste With a limited amount of trial and error you can add to change or create a table. Inserting pictures is the most complicated job and still very easy once you get the hang of it. Upload a file with the button "Upload file" and create a link to the uploaded file where you want it. The link is again pretty easy, but you'll often want to add two variables: left, right or centre of page and size. Again, trial and error will get you there. We would be delighted to help you find your way. Just ask.

When I am no longer blue in the face from lack of time for breathing, I will add a simple manual for tables and pictures.

Peter
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: FosseWay on August 07, 2019, 07:00:46 PM
I am slightly mystified by this thread as well. For a start, I didn't start it and I didn't give it its title.

As far as I know, this token is "ship's money" like the much larger series of Dutch boordgeld tokens. As I said in the "first" post, I don't think it belongs in the category Transport Tokens at all.

I take the point that the idea behind WoT is that everyone can and should contribute. I am also aware that I have not done as much there as I might have wanted, but the rest of life does tend to get in the way. But in this case, neither of those things is especially relevant. I posted the picture because from the context of the thread from which this was taken, it sounded like Mal was actively working on something there. I actually think it is counterproductive to blunder into an article that is a work in progress by someone else and put stuff there, however well-meaning. In such cases, it can be better for whoever is writing the article to collate information from others and write it up as a coherent whole. If new information then comes along when the original author has moved on to something else, then absolutely the finder of the new info should be encouraged to add it.
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 08, 2019, 12:14:23 AM
I had forgotten that you had allowed me to use your image for a new section of Swedish ships. BTW are there others?  ???

I shall put it here soon but today life gets in the way, but later on I might have time.


Edit; its now in place here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Swedish_American_Line)

BTW no amount of searching can locate your original article. (We do have the other ships tokens on this child board -  'Ferry, toll road and bridge tokens.')
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: FosseWay on August 08, 2019, 07:49:25 AM
I had forgotten that you had allowed me to use your image for a new section of Swedish ships. BTW are there others?  ???

I've never come across any others, although it seems strange that they would issue only one value denominated in standard currency and no others.

Quote
BTW no amount of searching can locate your original article. (We do have the other ships tokens on this child board -  'Ferry, toll road and bridge tokens.')

I don't think I've ever written about this token before, mainly because (as demonstrated here!) I know very little about it other than what is in the general Wikipedia article about the shipping line. I deliberately left it out of my contributions to the Gothenburg transport tokens pages because I felt it wasn't a transport token.
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 08, 2019, 08:08:29 AM
I see its countermarked with a value of 50 so it may exist with other values marked, and of course logically it could exist without a countermark.

Quote
I don't think I've ever written about this token before,

As you had started the thread with a quote from me I thought this must have been split from elsewhere.
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 08, 2019, 08:19:22 AM
Found it now!  Reply #5 here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,46382.msg290492.html#msg290492)

(from the Farebox January 1999)
SWEDEN

SHIP MONEY 909
Svenska Amerika Linien 50 ( 50 is incuse )
I  23mm brass scalloped 10 lobes Sporrong Stockholm $2 .50
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: scroggs on August 08, 2019, 01:38:20 PM
There is a series of these tokens, i Came across them in an auction lot a little while ago looking for something else. Theres definetly a Square 500 and IF my memory serves me 100, 50, 10 & 5 i think , im at my summer house till monday so dont have my computer or books with me.
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: Kushi on August 08, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
The 1967 Kenneth E. Smith catalog also includes a 25 value, round scalloped, brass, 25 millimetres, solid.
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 08, 2019, 02:30:59 PM
From the 1967 Kenneth E. Smith catalogue.

A different issue to the 50 token apparently.
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 10, 2019, 12:22:44 PM
A badge found on eBay today with an outlandish price US $395.00 (Approximately £327.01) postage another $44.95

I just went back in to get a picture and found another at US $14.00 but postage was $22 so I've sent it to a WoC member in the US instead.
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 12, 2019, 07:16:30 AM
Found the 25 token listed in this auction lot.294 : here (http://www.nku.nu/Auktion_117.pdf)

Swedish American Line, Goteborg (O-lan). SWEDEN AMERICA LINIA Flag with three crowns / 25 S.r.s. RSC, MAS. SM.909C.
Some shipping companies have used table tokens during their cruises. As a means of payment, they paid for on-boarding (food and drink).
The Swedish America Line, SAL, was a Swedish shipping company with traffic between Goteborg and North America. The company existed in the years 1915-75.

The flag looks like this badge.
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 12, 2019, 07:37:05 AM
Image from the catalogue obverse only. The value must be on the reverse?
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 12, 2019, 08:29:20 AM
If the pictures are so difficult to find, the tokens must be even more elusive.

Peter
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 12, 2019, 11:40:33 AM
Yes they are very elusive, I'm pinning my hopes on scroggs finding the images in his auction catalogue when he returns.
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: Kushi on August 12, 2019, 04:06:02 PM
Cannot anyone change the title of this thread?
Title: Re: Göteborg transport tokens
Post by: scroggs on August 12, 2019, 06:01:45 PM
These pictures of the tokens i have managed to find so far, 500, 100, 25 and a gaming token.
The 500 & 25 we have permission to use the photos.
500 [ NumisBids: Myntauktioner i Sverige AB Auction 11, Lot 196 : GÖTEBORG: Svenska (https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=736&lot=196) ] 100 [ SVENSKA AMERIKA LINIEN (TC-431194) (http://tokencatalog.com/token_record_forms.php?action=DisplayTokenRecord&td_id=431194&inventory_id=453035&td_image_id=282740&attribution_id=443030&record_offset=0) ] from token catalog.com , 25 [ NumisBids: Myntauktioner i Sverige AB Auction 14, Lot 342 : SWEDEN: (https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=1115&lot=342) ] and gaming token [ SVENSKA / AMERIKA LINIEN (TC-249667) (http://tokencatalog.com/token_record_forms.php?action=DisplayTokenRecord&td_id=249667&inventory_id=201647&td_image_id=111303&attribution_id=254368&record_offset=1) ] from token catalog.com
Title: Re: Göteborg, Swedish American Line tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 13, 2019, 12:25:40 AM
Thank you!

The last piece,  Bronze, 32 mm. The "Atlantic Games" Swedish America Lines a gaming token issued in 1961.

 Malmö Museum (http://carlotta.malmo.se/carlotta-mmus/web/object/3247)s has one at MHM 000588 without image.
Title: Re: Göteborg, Swedish American Line tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 22, 2019, 12:59:48 PM
This token currently appearing on eBay bares the same reverse as the 500 öre token mentioned above.
Title: Re: Göteborg, Swedish American Line tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 22, 2019, 02:14:07 PM
It looks massive. Do they give size or weight?

Peter
Title: Re: Göteborg, Swedish American Line tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 22, 2019, 02:24:18 PM
 The Swedish American Line 500 token is 32mm square, no doubt this is the same. measurements taken from Smith.
Title: Re: Göteborg, Swedish American Line tokens
Post by: FosseWay on August 22, 2019, 02:41:34 PM
The reverse of those 500 öre Sporrong tokens is just the standard reverse used on all of their series of "valörpolletter" (= denominated tokens) from 1 öre to 5 kronor. The identifying feature is on the other side, namely the Svenska Amerika Linien logo on scroggs's link and the JG on Malcolm's picture. Some years ago, the Swedish Token Society published a list, researched from Sporrong's archive, of the known letter combinations and denominations for this series. JG is known to exist (but interestingly the 500 denomination is not given) but it isn't (or wasn't then) known who ordered or used it.