World of Coins

Collecting coins => Fakes and imitations => Topic started by: andyg on April 24, 2019, 10:48:01 PM

Title: Small coins
Post by: andyg on April 24, 2019, 10:48:01 PM
Any ideas what these might be?
They may well be modern for all I know.
1.9g and 2.7g.
Title: Re: Small coins
Post by: Figleaf on April 25, 2019, 12:09:59 AM
A three-topped hill on both, a tree-in-railing on the large one. Both religious symbols from India used on ancient Indian coins. However, neither the metal, nor the dotted circle makes sense for those coins.

The small coin was worn as a talisman, but not in the way you picture it. Put the hole on top and the design becomes Bx. I don't think so.

Where were they coming from? Likely the same lot, but was it a lot of Asian or European coins?

Peter
Title: Re: Small coins
Post by: gpimper on April 25, 2019, 12:26:03 AM
Great crusties!  I'll be researching those.
Title: Re: Small coins
Post by: EWC on April 25, 2019, 08:38:40 PM
They purport to be Ancient India - civic issues of Taxila - to me - from the scans - there is something slightly dodgy looking about them
Title: Re: Small coins
Post by: andyg on April 25, 2019, 11:18:10 PM
I got them together in a small lot of unidentified coins from a small time dealer - I agree something tells me these are not "right" which is why I posted them together, but I wasn't even sure what they were supposed to be.
Title: Re: Small coins
Post by: EWC on April 26, 2019, 09:53:08 AM
Its a while since I studied these things closely. The three arched hill obverse is ubiquitous in the series, but these reverse types are not in the BM 1936 catalogue.   I just checked the other catalogues I have around the place - Mitchiner 2004 and Pieper 2013 – they are not there either.  (Did not check Zeno or other web locations)

Its kind of odd that a small time dealer should be selling coins unattributed that seem at the same time to be missing from the national collection and unnoticed by leading researchers even up to 2013.

If they are fakes they look like good ones, and would only be easily spotted if there was a flood of twins.   So - thus far - I would proceed with the suggestion that they might be genuine.

I recall Wilfried Pieper is still studying these things closely – I suggest I put him in in touch with you –  PM me an email address if you wish to assist.

Rob T
Title: Re: Small coins
Post by: andyg on April 28, 2019, 01:05:34 PM
I found a similar one on Zeno -
Zeno - Oriental Coins Database - Fantasy AE coin (https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=145824)

Guess the other is guilty by association.
Title: Re: Small coins
Post by: Figleaf on April 28, 2019, 03:18:42 PM
The piece on Zeno shows traces of Arabic writing. That clinches it. It's an impossible combination. Still, they look like nice fantasies. Made for the tourist trade, perhaps?

Peter
Title: Re: Small coins
Post by: EWC on April 28, 2019, 04:02:52 PM
Interesting - Yes - it looks like these are sophisticated fakes - especially when you look at the two coins on Zeno.

It not impossible for a Khwarezmian jital to be overstruck on an ancient Taxila flan - actually -  I think that is what the seller was originally intending to concoct.

But it did not work out really convincingly.

Actually - this seems to explain why the corrosion seen on some of the flans looks so good. The flans are very old and in some cases genuinely corroded.  Its the overstriking that is modern.

Many years ago I bought a Yi Hua chinese cash (H. 6.17)  from a photo  but it turned out to be a dud in hand - it was a pan liang with the characters ground off and new characters made of wire and stuck on - and gunked over.  That sounds crude in writing - but actually it was very convincing.  The coin you saw was 90% genuine - which throws the eye away from the flaw

Rob T
Title: Re: Small coins
Post by: gpimper on April 29, 2019, 04:11:05 AM
I've been looking...a lot.  I have found a few that are modern and similar but I'm afraid I've got nothing so far.  They are fascinating but I'm not sure they are the real deal...no proof mind :-)  Still looking (always looking!)