World of Coins

Modern Asian coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens => Indonesia => Topic started by: capnbirdseye on April 09, 2019, 11:38:46 AM

Title: Indonesia, Teluk Samawi,Sultan Jauhar Al-Alam Shah, Tin alloy pitis,
Post by: capnbirdseye on April 09, 2019, 11:38:46 AM
I keep coming back to this coin from my recent purchases, it looks familiar and yet I cannot seem to identify it  ???

It's less than a typical Jital weight at 2.72g.  it appears to be billon
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: THCoins on April 09, 2019, 05:24:39 PM
My first association was "Haq" or "Jou" in the center of the left side, plus style, could be Mehrabanids from Sistan. But looking closer i can't get much further on that idea.
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: capnbirdseye on April 09, 2019, 06:52:45 PM
My first association was "Haq" or "Jou" in the center of the left side, plus style, could be Mehrabanids from Sistan. But looking closer i can't get much further on that idea.

Could be Mehrabanid although it does not resemble any of the 15 or so I have, however the metal could be a clue as it has a similar composition with possibly some lead in which gives it a very grey appearance
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: saro on April 10, 2019, 06:03:40 PM
Even if I have no idea about its origin  It seems to me that it reads (from bottom) : "al-'adl Shah Johr " & for the other face :"Hamadi falus" + a date ? at bottom.

"al-'adil" is not clear  :-\  but I don't see what else could fit after al-'a...?
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: capnbirdseye on April 10, 2019, 06:07:54 PM
Thanks for the overlay saro, as yet this coin remains unidentified on Fb and zeno so maybe I will add your overlay on the Fb post and see if anoyone can add to it
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: saro on April 11, 2019, 10:00:11 AM
" جوهر for " Johor"  ???
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: Figleaf on April 11, 2019, 12:40:12 PM
Sorry, I don't think so. The sultans of Johore would not have dared to call themselves shah, Johore issued no copper (it did issue zinc coins) and the name of the state is not on the coins. Checked Saran Singh to be sure and found nothing like this coin.

Peter
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: saro on April 12, 2019, 11:54:33 PM
Now identified  :)
the correct reading is : "Jauhar al-'alam Shah" & " Teluk Samawi 1226" (Teluk at top)
Jauhar al-'alam Shah was sultan of Aceh and Teluk Samawi a famous port in Malacca straits in Sumatra kingdom from 13th to 16th c.

ref : see this (https://steemit.com/aceh/@cisah/teluk-samawi-a-port-in-the-maritime-silk-route-ancient-coin-of-teluk-samawi) link
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: Figleaf on April 13, 2019, 12:31:41 AM
 :applause: :applause: :applause:

Great id. You were so close.

Peter
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: saro on April 13, 2019, 08:44:45 AM
Thank you Peter  ;)   I join the corrected overlay...(the legend is fully present except the "k" of "Teluk" )
This coin indeed looks oldest than it is and doesn' seem to be in lead ? may be in "caxas" as mentionned in the reference paper ?
However, I don't know what is the alloy called"caxas"?
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: Figleaf on April 13, 2019, 08:49:20 AM
Caxas is the Portuguese word for cash (plural). It means something like "coin of a very small value".

Peter
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: capnbirdseye on April 13, 2019, 10:31:57 AM
Brilliant detective work saro,  8) nobody on Fb or zeno has been able to identify it so far so I am well pleased that you finally did it.

The metal this coin is made from is some kind of alloy probably mixed with Lead,  perhaps similar to coins of the Mehrabanids but unlike those it shows no deterioration.
A quick search on zeno gives no results for Teluk Samawi but it may be spelled differently, I will add your findings to my zeno post and see what comes up
 
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: THCoins on April 13, 2019, 11:55:25 AM
Great attribution !
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: saro on April 13, 2019, 01:52:06 PM
Thank you both Vic & Anthony  :)
I suspected an Indonesian or Malaysian origin and wasn't satisfied with the reading of the word "al-'adl" after "Shah" which looked better like "al-'aa-lm../ al-'aalam" ; it was the clue ! and for the rest : thanks to Mr Google  :D

I suppose that's a scarce coin ? may be others are sleeping in some trays, waiting an accurate label...
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: capnbirdseye on April 13, 2019, 03:31:52 PM
Probably is a scarce coin, particularly as it's not corroded like the one from the link. I can't find a zeno listing for Teluk Samawi unless they create one
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: EWC on April 13, 2019, 03:32:16 PM
I suppose that's a scarce coin ? may be others are sleeping in some trays, waiting an accurate label...

Yes - well done indeed.

The Mehrabanid coins tend to be part  lead, and tend to corrode a bit in the soil -  but often coins from around the Philippines etc tend to be tin and corrode away to nothing in the soil. 

Very rare coins (often not in Sarang Singh) suddenly became common after the dredging of Palembang harbour, because, exceptionally, they were preserved in anaerobic mud.  But I never saw this one and it is perhaps very rare indeed?
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: capnbirdseye on April 13, 2019, 05:28:19 PM
A new category for Teluk Samawi has just been added by charm, There is just one other of this type posted 10 years ago which was listed under Aceh but now put together with mine

Zeno - Oriental Coins Database - Teluk Semawi, Sumatra, 1226 AH (https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=78130+)
Title: Re: A Jital? to identify
Post by: saro on April 13, 2019, 05:55:52 PM
I noticed that the coin in Sumatra old city museum (the one of the link) is wrongly dated 1229 AH, all 3 coins are dated 1226.