World of Coins

Modern coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens of other continents => Caribbean => Topic started by: Galapagos on October 05, 2009, 04:09:47 PM

Title: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Galapagos on October 05, 2009, 04:09:47 PM
Parent topic: Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,8709.0.html)


By “Caribbean plus”, I mean the islands of the Caribbean, plus, for the sake of convenience, the two other numismatically significant islands in that general area of the world, namely St Pierre et Miquelon, and Bermuda.

I invite members to correct me where I am wrong, and to elaborate on any issues of which they have knowledge.

Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: BC Numismatics on October 05, 2009, 10:50:54 PM
Dominica is the only republic that uses the East Caribbean States Dollar.Apart from Anguilla & Montserrat,the rest of them are all Dominions,but there was a proposal to impose a republic on the people of Barbados when Owen Arthur was Prime Minister of Barbados,albeit,without a referendum.

The British Virgin Islands have both their own coins,& American coins in circulation.Yes,they still issue British Postal Orders at the G.P.O. in Road Town.

Aidan.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on October 06, 2009, 12:00:58 AM
Guess our Dutch members can contribute a lot to the use of "gulden" and "florin" in the pre-euro Netherlands. :) Anyway, on the current pieces from Aruba they use the name "florin", and the Neth. Antilles have the word "gulden" on their coins and notes.

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on October 06, 2009, 03:23:15 PM
Guess our Dutch members can contribute a lot to the use of "gulden" and "florin" in the pre-euro Netherlands. :)

Not a lot, but I can say something on the use of the word florin for gulden in English. The gulden coin two ancestors. First, there was a gold coin of Florence, first issued in 1252. It sported a large heraldic lily, the symbol of Florence. It therefore received the nickname fiorino d'oro (golden flower). The coin was a huge commercial success and it was copied everywhere. This coin was even copied in England under Edward III in 1344 as a coin of 6 shillings. The English economy at the time was much less developed than that of Florence, so the issue was not pursued. The coin and its imitations were known as the goldgulden and struck from the 14th to the 17th century in Hungary, Austria and the holy Roman Empire (of which the Netherlands were a part), though.

The second ancestor is the silver thaler, in particular an imperial coin of 60 kreuzer, introduced in 1559 as the silver equivalent of the goldgulden. This coin was known as the "reichsgulden". Under emperor Charles V, both the gold and the silver coin were introduced in the Netherlands and the silver coin was there to stay. It played second fiddle to the reichsthaler (originally 68 kreuzer) until decimalization, when it became the unit of account of the Netherlands for less than two centuries, when it was replaced by the euro.

Strictly speaking, the words florin and gulden therefore refer to the same value, but while florin is a gold coin, gulden is a silver coin. Moreover, florin used in a Dutch connotation is linked to an English coin of 6 shillings, not 2 shillings.

All of this is of no importance in the Caribbean and Latin America. The people of Surinam speak many different languages, but their common language is papiamento, a mixture of Spanish, Dutch and English. Those who are more Spanish inclined like to say florin, those who are more Dutch inclined stick to gulden. Both groups are relaxed enough to know and understand both words. You'll find a somewhat similar situation on the islands.

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Galapagos on October 11, 2009, 12:15:28 AM
Excellent scans, Andy.

Arnold Machin designed the Bahamas reverses. He is best known for his portrait of QEII, which appears on the obverse, and also in modified form on the definitive stamps of the UK.

Philip Nathan designed the Barbados coins. His latest numismatic work is the new reverses of Gibraltar (2004 onwards). He has also designed several of the UK's Britannias, as well as the UK Royal Wedding crown featuring Prince Charles and Princess Diana.

Michael Rizzello (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9511.0.html) did the reverse designs for Bermuda. Among his other designs are the original circulation designs of the Gambia, and Swaziland.

Stuart Devlin did the reverses of the Cayman Islands. He is best known for Australia's decimal designs and the first independence designs of Singapore.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on October 11, 2009, 01:34:40 AM
Coins dating from before the embargo are OK. The Che coin is obviously dated much later. I also think the authorities are more worried about the Cuban pseudo coin diarrhea, since that would eat into their own pseudo coin profits.

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Galapagos on October 12, 2009, 12:07:42 AM
The 2c and 10c of the East Caribbean Territories look similar to an old UK pre-decimal penny and sixpence respectively. The set was designed by Humphrey Paget (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,4118.0.html), who also designed the Golden Hind ship on the reverse of the UK pre-decimal halfpenny.

As for the later aluminium bronze dollar, I have one, but its lustre has largely gone.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: andyg on October 12, 2009, 12:12:42 AM
The half cent, one cent and two cent were the same size as British ¼d, ½d and 1d.
The 10 cent was smaller than the sixpence.  The 25 cent is inbetween the UK 1/- and the USA 25c.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on October 12, 2009, 11:10:42 PM
So when I wasn't looking they issued some new coins. HAH!

The plant is a fruit-bearing orange branch. This refers to the colour of the shirts of the Dutch national soccer team ;)

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Galapagos on November 24, 2009, 05:15:46 PM
From a3v1:

"This news is out today:
The islands of Bonaire, Saba, and St.Eustatius, to be separated from the Netherlands Antilles in 2012, have chosen the US$ for their future legal tender.
As these islands will become part of the Netherlands homeland, there was much speculation that they would introduce the Euro. But not so!
In 2002 the Euro was introduced on the neighbouring French islands of St.Martin, Guadeloupe and Martinique. But over time this currency has proven to be too high in value to fit the local economies.
Regards,
a3v1"
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on January 21, 2011, 04:44:58 PM
Bonaire, St. Eustatius and Saba now use the US dollar, which became legal tender there on 1 January 2011.

Curaçao and Sint-Maarten currently use the Netherlands Antilles Guilder. In 2012 they will adopt a new common currency, to be known as the Caribbean Guilder. Like the current guilder, it will be pegged to the US dollar. http://www.currency-iso.org/dl_currency_iso_amendment_150.pdf

My thanks to forum member Christian, who was first with this news.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on January 21, 2011, 08:44:22 PM
An amusing development is that Dutch banks have completely lost confidence in the old currency and refuse to accept it, even though it remains valid during the transition period. This has the Foreign ministry worried. It is pressuring the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank to guarantee old banknotes and it is trying to convince the banks on Schiphol airport to accept the old notes, so far without success.

This is all the more amusing because flights out of the former Netherlands Antilles carry such a high percentage of drugs couriers that the passengers are subjected to separate, more stringent customs procedures by ... uhhh ... more businesslike types, which has lead to many complaints and many interceptions and arrests.

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on January 21, 2011, 10:37:07 PM
An amusing development is that Dutch banks have completely lost confidence in the old currency and refuse to accept it, even though it remains valid during the transition period. This has the Foreign ministry worried. It is pressuring the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank to guarantee old banknotes and it is trying to convince the banks on Schiphol airport to accept the old notes, so far without success.

Apparently the pressure had some effect. :) While I do not have any ANG cash, so that I cannot try it out myself, it now is apparently possible to get them exchanged in the (European) Netherlands: "Vanaf dinsdag 18 januari 2011 is het voor het publiek weer mogelijk via de kantoren van GWK Travelex Nederlands-Antilliaanse Guldens om te wisselen. Dit is het resultaat van het verzoek van de Minister van Financiën vorige maand aan de Nederlandsche Bank (DNB) om een oplossing te vinden voor het niet langer kunnen omwisselen van de Antilliaanse gulden in Nederland." http://www.dnb.nl/nieuws/nieuwsoverzicht-en-archief/nieuws-2011/dnb246028.jsp

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on January 21, 2011, 10:54:03 PM
The last sentence is the key. The Central Bank has agreed to pay for transportation and is taking the risk of non-acceptance. Well, it does have more clout than any private bank, it controls the changeover operation and it can probably even deduct its claims from Dutch subsidies to the local governments. Nevertheless, taxpayers pay transportation cost and carry all residual risk. No wonder the banks agreed.

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on May 26, 2011, 08:22:40 PM
More on the Caribbean guilder, which is to be introduced in 2012.

The currency will be phased in over three months. The 2.5 guilder coin and the 25 guilder notes present in the Netherlands Antillean guilder series (as well as in the other guilder sets in the Kingdom of the Netherlands) will no longer be produced and will be replaced by 20-based denominations.

Source: Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_guilder
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on August 22, 2011, 12:58:06 PM
More on the Caribbean guilder.

http://www.thedailyherald.com/islands/1-islands-news/17347-request-for-delay-caribbean-guilder.html

Curaçao Finance Minister George "Jorge" Jamaloodin (MFK) will soon approach Parliament with an official request to postpone the introduction of the joint Caribbean guilder of Curaçao and St. Maarten. The minister said there are several reasons for the delay. The switch from the current Antillean guilder (of the no-longer-existent Netherlands Antilles) to the Caribbean guilder is expected to cost 20 million guilders.

The new currency was supposed to go into effect on January 1, 2012, but it's already clear this target date can't be made. The fact that St. Maarten is toying with the idea of dollarization also plays a role. Considering that, there is no big hurry, said Jamaloodin, who emphasised that the Schotte cabinet has not taken any decision on possibly switching to the US dollar. He expects to present his proposal to the legislature within the next two weeks.


This news is from June 1st 2011, but I have found no later news regarding Mr Jamaloodin's request for a postponement.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on August 22, 2011, 01:55:20 PM
Oh, you did. That article for example is from 2011. ;)

As for possibly introducing the US dollar in Sint Maarten, well, a few weeks ago there was an interview with a member of the Dutch parliament who had just been to Bonaire. (That is one of those "BES" islands that became more or less regular Dutch instead of having an autonomous status.) Apart from a couple of legal issues, she also mentions the economy, and says that prices have dramatically increased due to the dollarization ... (Article in Dutch (http://www.binnenlandsbestuur.nl/Home/all/gemeente-bonaire-explosief-door-nederlandse-wetten.1601984.lynkx))

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on August 22, 2011, 05:03:28 PM
she also mentions the economy, and says that prices have dramatically increased due to the dollarization ...

Christian


Now why would that happen? Who sets the exchange rate?
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on August 22, 2011, 05:13:11 PM
If our parliamentarians were smarter, they would have better paying jobs.

What she may have meant to say was something like: "most stuff we buy abroad comes from the US, but we still import things from the euro zone. Our salaries are tied to USD, but prices of stuff imported from the euro zone are going up as the euro rises against USD. I am not smart enough to figure out that if salaries (or prices) were tied to the euro, US tourists would choose another holiday destination and I would also complain, but about unemployment, not inflation."

 ::)

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on August 23, 2011, 01:40:50 PM
What I found strange when I read that interview: Before the introduction of the US dollar, the "BES" islands used the Netherlands Antilles Guilder - which was basically the US dollar "in disguise" (fixed exchange rate). But yes, prices did go up: http://www.cbs.nl/en-GB/menu/themas/dossiers/nederland-regionaal/publicaties/artikelen/archief/2011/2011-08-05-bes-tk16.htm (article in English).

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on August 23, 2011, 03:14:06 PM
Inflation is not coming from the USD zone, but from the EUR zone.

Looking at the stats, you see that hotels, restaurants and transportation are much involved. This wil not hit the average island dweller, but the tourist. One way this could have been caused is wage inflation: the tourist industry pulling ahead of the economy at large. If so, those working in the tourist industry will have no problem with the higher prices for food, shoes and clothes. There may even be a hedonistic inflation effect: people buy better quality food, shoes and clothes. However, that would mean that the rest of the population and especially the unemployed and the retired are hit by stagnant income as well as increasing prices.

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on October 25, 2011, 03:35:22 PM
Just noticed that you can now buy this year's Curaçao and Sint Maarten coin set ... except that all these 2011 coins say "Nederlandse Antillen". :) http://www.knm.nl/Cura-ao-en-Sint-Maarten-BU-Set-2011/nl/product/1894/

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on October 25, 2011, 04:22:54 PM
Just noticed that you can now buy this year's Curaçao and Sint Maarten coin set ... except that all these 2011 coins say "Nederlandse Antillen". :) http://www.knm.nl/Cura-ao-en-Sint-Maarten-BU-Set-2011/nl/product/1894/

Christian

So will the "Caribbean guilder" ever be born now, do you think?
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on October 25, 2011, 10:01:09 PM
Good question. :)  The KNM is somewhat careful in its blurb: "Voor 2012 is nog niet bekend hoe de muntset wordt uitgevoerd. Dit kan de laatste Antilliaanse gulden-muntset zijn!" That is, we do not know what next year's set will be like, so this may be the last Antillean guilder set. RSMint (http://rsmint.com/2011netherlandsantillesbucoinset.aspx), a dealer in the US, says "probably" instead of maybe: "On Curaçao and St. Maarten, the Netherlands Antillean guilder will be replaced by the newly created Caribbean guilder no earlier than 2013. Because of this, this set is probably the last coin set with Antillean Guilder that will ever be issued." If you ask me, I find it odd to even have a Netherlands Antilles set this year ...

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on March 20, 2012, 02:16:37 AM
With reference to andyg's comment: "Cuba, 25 Centavos 1988, in Aluminium, struck for visitors from Socialist countries", which can be found here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14306.msg41045.html#msg41045), could he point me to any online sources for this? I was always under the impression that the parallel coinage was struck for all foreign tourists. This would mean that not just one but two parallel coinages have existed in Cuba: one for Western visitors, and one for visitors from Communist countries.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on March 20, 2012, 02:30:04 AM
That is correct. The coins for tourists from socialist countries (four denominations only) were made in Kremnica, then CSSR, and are all dated 1988. The pieces for other visitors (six denominations) were minted between 1988 and 1993. In 1994 new Convertible Peso coins were issued, now with seven denominations.

Gerhard Schö---errm, Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on March 20, 2012, 02:35:42 AM
Thank you, most interesting.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: andyg on March 20, 2012, 11:20:41 AM
That is correct. The coins for tourists from socialist countries (four denominations only) were made in Kremnica, then CSSR, and are all dated 1988. The pieces for other visitors (six denominations) were minted between 1988 and 1993. In 1994 new Convertible Peso coins were issued, now with seven denominations.

Gerhard Schö---errm, Christian

Close  Gerh... erm Christian, the tourist coinage started in 1981.  I presume that all tourists used that coinage until 1988 when the socialist coins were minted?  North Korea did something very similar with their stars - 1 star for Communist visitors and two stars for visitors from a hard currency area.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on February 21, 2014, 02:59:56 PM
As of 1st January 2014, the website for the Central Bank Curaçao and Sint Maarten changed from www.centralbank.an  to  www.centralbank.cw 

The .an presumably stood for Antilles. What does the w in .cw stand for?
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on February 21, 2014, 06:06:19 PM
Willemstad.

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on February 21, 2014, 06:49:12 PM
Willemstad.

Peter

Willemstad - that city being the capital of Curaçao.  So what about poor old Sint Maarten, then? I thought that bank was supposed to be their joint bank, handling their new joint currency, the Caribbean guilder (which is behind schedule anyway).
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on February 21, 2014, 08:43:30 PM
Its probably because of some Dutch delegate. In the Gouda-cheese-driven mind, Curaçao and Willemstad are more or less one name, because there is a Willemstad in the Netherlands. Something like Frankfurt-an-der-Oder. No German who doesn't live there will call it Frankfurt.

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on February 21, 2014, 10:12:01 PM
So what about poor old Sint Maarten, then?

Guess they want to focus on one TLD, and picked Curaçao's. But the domain works with Sint Maarten's TLD too: http://www.centralbank.sx

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on February 21, 2014, 10:29:19 PM
TLD = Top Level Domain.  All these abbreviations - will real words die out soon?  ;D
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on February 21, 2014, 10:32:50 PM
Yup. RSN. (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/RSN)

(SCNR)

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: eurocoin on May 09, 2014, 06:30:05 PM
The Caribbean dollar will be issued around the end of May to early June this year. Due to many reasons the issuance has been delayed. The last of them was a shortage of blanks for these new coins at the end of last year. The coins will bear the name "De Nederlandse Antillen" (The Netherlands Antilles). There has been an investigation to find out if this name legally could be used as The Netherlands Antilles doesn't exist anymore since the end of 2010.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on May 09, 2014, 06:34:29 PM
Do you have a source or a link for that news, eurocoin?
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: eurocoin on May 09, 2014, 06:43:34 PM
Do you have a source or a link for that news, eurocoin?

The dutch numismatic magazine Muntkoerier, they quote the dutch news agency Novum.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on May 09, 2014, 07:00:26 PM
Thanks, eurocoin.  So the name The Netherlands Antilles remains - no longer political, I suppose - more geographical. But though separate and independent, they are still part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, just as the UK shares her Queen with other countries.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: eurocoin on May 09, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Thanks, eurocoin.  So the name The Netherlands Antilles remains - no longer political, I suppose - more geographical. But though separate and independent, they are still part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, just as the UK shares her Queen with other countries.

Yes indeed St Maarten and Curaçao stay independent from each other and both countries stay independent countries within Kingdom The Netherlands. This is indeed just a geographical name  that is based on just a little bit more than nothing.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on October 02, 2014, 08:15:08 PM
It's rather strange that, while we wait for the Caribbean guilder, coins are still being issued in the name of a country that no longer exists: the Netherlands Antilles.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Pabitra on October 02, 2014, 10:15:15 PM
My Dutch friends have not been able to confirm the authenticity of these coins although Jo reported it on World coin News.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Figleaf on October 02, 2014, 10:28:12 PM
Looks fishy. They have the marks of the Utrecht mint, but are not mentioned on the mint's web site, while in the past, the mint was eagerly flogging this sort of stuff.

Peter
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on October 02, 2014, 11:50:05 PM
The central bank of that non-existing country, however, does list them. ;)
http://www.centralbank.cw/index.php?eid=781

The 1G and 5G coins show Willem Alexander while the 2½ gulden piece still has Beatrix. Could be a mere error on that page though. But they look pretty darn authentic to me ...

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: eurocoin on October 03, 2014, 06:57:50 AM
The coins of 50 cent and 2 1/2 guilder haven't been minted yet (as they only appear in sets). The images below were published over a month ago on the blog (http://munteninfo.blogspot.nl/) of the expert Erik J. van Loon.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Pabitra on October 03, 2014, 09:00:44 AM
Strangely, no dealer offered them at coin shows of Tilburg, Houten or Valkenburg.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on October 03, 2014, 11:13:29 AM
Did not see them in Houten either, but admittedly I would have noticed those coins only if there had been a big sign advertising them. ;)  Maybe in Duisburg tomorrow. I still wonder why they refer to the "Netherlands Antilles" ...

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Pabitra on October 03, 2014, 05:36:16 PM
Try this dealer. The name is zonnemunten. He has website www.zonnemunten.nl

No going to Duisberg.


Apparently he has it.

Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: chrisild on October 04, 2014, 03:55:11 PM
Well, I went to the coin show in Duisburg anyway today. ;D  But you're right, that dealer apparently has them (http://www.zonnemunten.nl/nl/jaarseries-antillen/19539-jaarserie-nesderlandse-antillen-2014-1-5-10-25-cent-1-5-gulden.html). Note however that, according to the item description, only the BU set - not available yet - will have the 50 ct and 2½ G pieces ...

Christian
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: <k> on December 04, 2014, 12:49:22 PM
Aruba, 1 florin, 2014 and Netherlands Antilles, 1 gulden, 2014, each showing the portrait of Willem-Alexander.
Title: Re: Comments on Official Currencies of the Islands of the Caribbean Plus
Post by: Pabitra on December 04, 2014, 02:07:33 PM
Aruba 5 Florin is out too