World of Coins

Modern coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens of other continents => Sub-Saharan Africa => South Africa => Topic started by: Manfred1 on March 03, 2018, 06:03:05 PM

Title: South Africa 2011 - Silver Crown size 5 Rand
Post by: Manfred1 on March 03, 2018, 06:03:05 PM
Quick stats

Mass: 33.626g
Diameter: 38.725mm
Ag .925 Cu.075
24ct gold plated
Mintage 10,000

Title: Re: South Africa 2011 - Silver Crown size 5 Rand
Post by: Figleaf on March 11, 2018, 01:08:38 PM
As a coin collector, I miss the Paul Kruger series, but I have to admit they were struck in Berlin. As for the gold sovereign, I wonder if it is a South African coin just because it has the SA mint mark. It was a trade coin, essentially a "gold bar" with a denomination, not for circulation but for small scale metal speculation and storage of wealth outside the view of the tax man.

The design shows products of the Pretoria mint, not money for circulation. That is as it should be, as it commemorates the mint centennial, but it takes a collector to be aware of it.

Peter
Title: Re: South Africa 2011 - Silver Crown size 5 Rand
Post by: Manfred1 on March 12, 2018, 09:15:47 AM
Hi Peter

According to my knowledge only the first issue of 1892 coins were struck in Germany. This is where the 1892 "double shaft" variants occurred. As from 1893 all Paul Kruger coins were struck in Pretoria (SA) 

The Sovereign coins were also struck in Pretoria. Since the SA sovereigns had the same specifications and values to the English and Australian sovereigns, the mint mark "SA" was used.

The only coin not used for circulation is the R100 Rhino (Natura Series) 1 Ounce 24 ct gold.

Title: Re: South Africa 2011 - Silver Crown size 5 Rand
Post by: Manfred1 on March 12, 2018, 09:39:27 AM
Please see the topic: Mintmarks - SA Coins

The CW "counterpunch" on the 5 Rand coin were added using the 1892 "Paul Press" machine.
Title: Re: South Africa 2011 - Silver Crown size 5 Rand
Post by: Figleaf on March 12, 2018, 10:02:24 AM
As the legend on the piece shown is 1921-2011, any Pretoria strikes before 1921 somehow don't count as Pretoria mint strikes?

There is plenty of evidence that what determines the "nationality" of a coin is the legend, not the mint. Nobody in his right mind would consider that euro coins made in South Korea are South Korean. By logical extension, the sovereigns' legend, clearly British, make the piece British and the SA doesn't make it South African. That doesn't mean you can't put it in a South Africa coin collection, just that you should be aware of its status.

I am interested in your "Paul press" remark. Can you expand on it, please?

Peter
Title: Re: South Africa 2011 - Silver Crown size 5 Rand
Post by: Manfred1 on March 13, 2018, 07:41:02 AM
Peter

The 2011 5 Rands are commemorative coins for the 90th Anniversary of the South African Reserve Bank.

My apologies, i had my info mixed up ... the "counterstamps" were not added using the "Paul Press" but the Coin World (CW) 5 Rand coins were minted with the 1892 minting machine. Attached photos for detail. Mintage for 2007 (CW) 5 Rand coins = 2354
Title: Re: South Africa 2011 - Silver Crown size 5 Rand
Post by: Figleaf on March 13, 2018, 09:57:51 AM
Pictures of that press are hard to come by. I found this one on the web site of a SA dealer, but have some doubts that this is the press in question, as it looks older than 1891.

This is a late Uhlhorn-type knuckle lever steam press, possibly modified to use electricity, rather than steam. The web site (http://www.krugerrandtrading.co.za/krugerrand_2001_coin_world_oom_paul.html) I found the picture on says it was manufactured in Berlin by Ludwig Loewe in 1891.

When I was last in the Utrecht mint (quite some time ago), they were using a similar press for proof strikes. I was told that modern presses are too fast for proofs and knuckle levers can do a better job. Similarly, the Philadelphia mint has such a press, last seen in the Carson City mint museum, that is or was being used occasionally. There are such presses and a few older ones in the Rome mint museum, but I don't know if they are still used. One was used for large medals, but I forgot which one.

It is of course false to claim that it is one of the oldest presses in the world, as there are plenty of screw presses still around, so they employed the usual trick of adding an adjective, in this case "working". I think it would have been more interesting to claim that for the coins struck, the old press could do better than a modern press.

Peter
Title: Re: South Africa 2011 - Silver Crown size 5 Rand
Post by: Manfred1 on March 13, 2018, 10:14:36 AM
Hi Peter

The "Paul Press" picture i have ... Dealer In SA promoting 1892 Proof set.
 
Title: Re: South Africa 2011 - Silver Crown size 5 Rand
Post by: Figleaf on March 13, 2018, 10:19:42 AM
Not quite a clear picture, but it looks like an even earlier knuckle-lever press. If this is it, it wasn't the latest technology in 1891. I would say it was built around 1850 or 1860.

Peter