World of Coins

Modern Asian coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens => Iran and Afghanistan => Topic started by: andyg on January 22, 2018, 12:13:25 AM

Title: Safavid "be-la'nat" falus dated 988 AH counterstamped " 'Adl Tabriz "
Post by: andyg on January 22, 2018, 12:13:25 AM
No ideas on this one - Middle eastern presumably.

9g
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: Figleaf on January 28, 2018, 07:16:34 PM
I would be inclined to take the counterstamp for Central Asian. Will have a look in Michiner tomorrow...

Peter
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: saro on January 28, 2018, 10:57:27 PM
Countermark : " 'adl Tabriz "
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: Figleaf on January 29, 2018, 10:10:45 AM
Thanks, saro. That helped a lot, but Mitchiner didn't help much. The closest I got was a falus of the Ak Koyunlu with c/m Amul, i.e host like MWI 1803, c/m like MWI 1800 but without the stars, both assigned to Uzun Hasan (857-882 AH). I hope someone has a more precise idea...

Peter
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: saro on January 30, 2018, 02:10:58 PM
From the few remains of legend of the lower picture, it seems to me that the host coin could be an early safavid copper not far of this one (https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=176551), even of half weight.

the upper line could be "dinar Shahi" and " (u)rdu.."  which is legible at 3 o'clock could be a part of "Urdubad"  ??? , a city located only 100km N of Tabriz...
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: andyg on February 03, 2018, 10:30:08 PM
crikey - both the countermark and the host coin identified (I'd not even though there was enough left to find the host coin) - Now I can see what I'm looking at I think the host is dated 988......

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: saro on February 03, 2018, 10:40:26 PM
 :applause: andyg !  I didn't see that ! ...
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: saro on February 04, 2018, 09:41:46 AM
and now, I see a lion with up tail, in the middle part, on the left between the 2 lines...(its head cut by the counterstamp).
Do you confirm ?
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: andyg on February 04, 2018, 12:51:40 PM
It could be with some imagination :)
It's not much clearer in hand.
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: saro on February 04, 2018, 03:09:55 PM
After attentive examination of your (very interesting) coin, I think that we can say with some confidence :

- the host coin is a safavid falus struck in 988 AH.
- the mintname should be on the countermark side and isn't legible (Pls forget "Urdubad"..)
- the host coin belongs to the so called "be-la'nat" series.
- the host coin has been re-validated at Tabriz (ctm " 'adl Tabriz ")

From the remaining parts of legends of your coin and with help of other "be-la'nat" coins (legends arrangements may differ according to the mints), I have reconstructed what should most likely be the full text...
" May  the damnation of God be on whoever alters the falus of the Shah"

("be-la'nat بلعنت / damnation)
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: THCoins on February 04, 2018, 03:12:54 PM
Great research with interesting outcome !
Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: saro on February 04, 2018, 03:20:08 PM
Thank you Anthony  :)

Title: Re: Unknown countermark
Post by: Figleaf on February 04, 2018, 07:56:21 PM
 :applause: :applause: :applause:
Title: Re: Safavid "be-la'nat" falus dated 988 AH counterstamped " 'Adl Tabriz "
Post by: saro on October 17, 2019, 02:47:23 PM
Coming back on this "la'nat" coin dated 988 AH, at time of Shah 'Abbas", I think that it is similar with this  one (https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=164738) on Zeno, and I again see a lion in a central cartouche... (and below :"zarb 988")
Title: Re: Safavid "be-la'nat" falus dated 988 AH counterstamped " 'Adl Tabriz "
Post by: gerard974 on October 17, 2019, 06:27:50 PM
Hello My Friends
I have always the question "How do you make for to seen all " with one very big imagination i see nothing . Maybee the lion is going to eat ??? (is a joke)
best regards gerard
Title: Re: Safavid "be-la'nat" falus dated 988 AH counterstamped " 'Adl Tabriz "
Post by: Figleaf on October 17, 2019, 07:17:57 PM
Faut pas confondre les deux côtés. La deuxième image dans le message original (countermark 2.jpg) est analysé à merveille dans la réponse 9. A l'autre côté, on pourrait voir entre le centre et trois heures, un animal. En effet, il me semble que c'est une image, plutôt que des lettres Arabes. Saro fait des miracles. :)

Peter
Title: Re: Safavid "be-la'nat" falus dated 988 AH counterstamped " 'Adl Tabriz "
Post by: saro on October 17, 2019, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: gerard974 on October 17, 2019, 06:27:50 PM
... with one very big imagination i see nothing
Bonsoir Gérard, je reconnais volontiers que pour le lion, ce n'est très net ! :)
This coin and the Zeno one are of the same type and it is possible to read on the Zeno coin a good part of the "be-la'nat" formula (see sketch in reply 9).
I agree with Peter : the "thing" in the central cartouche looks more like an animal with a floral backgound than a persian writing  ???
As "zarb" (+date) is placed below the cartouche, we might expect that the mintname could be placed over it?
Title: Re: Safavid "be-la'nat" falus dated 988 AH counterstamped " 'Adl Tabriz "
Post by: saro on April 29, 2020, 05:46:16 PM
Quote from: saro on October 17, 2019, 02:47:23 PM
Coming back on this "la'nat" coin dated 988 AH, at time of Shah 'Abbas", I think that it is similar with this  one (https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=164738) on Zeno, and I again see a lion in a central cartouche... (and below :"zarb 988")
A long time later....  : a similar one (https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=61767) is listed on Zeno.
The host coin is well from Tabriz with a lion on reverse ( ;))
I notice that on Zeno it hasn't been identified as a "be-la'nat" coin, however it is...