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Euro coins => Euro news and basics => Topic started by: eurocoin on November 05, 2015, 09:27:06 AM

Title: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on November 05, 2015, 09:27:06 AM


Disclaimer: This topic is meant for informational purposes only. The information can be incorrect or outdated. All information mentioned in this topic is publicly available.



Quote
Hmmm, so in spite of selling numerous highly surcharged coins, they are bankrupt? WoW! ::)

I just wonder how much does a mint worker (depending on the position he holds) earn every month? (Not only Dutch mint but all mints in EU in general)

Aditya

The problem is a deal with Chile that they made in 2013. They had to mint 850 million Chilean 100 pesos coins. There were problems with the order, a brand new packaging machine didn't work (RDM sued the producer). Also they didn't have the equipment to count so many coins so the coins had to be counted by hand. Furthermore they used low quality metal, the Chilean authorities rejected the coins (oxidation spots)  and the RDM had to pay a fine because of breach of contract. On inside footage secretly filmed by an employee, I have seen the particular coins but was unable to spot any quality problems (oxidation spots). The particular employee published the video on his Facebook page.

In 2014 the Royal Dutch Mint was unable to refund the government the face value of the minted coins for circulation. The Dutch Ministry of Finance is the only shareholder of Royal Dutch Mint and is currently considering what to do with the mint. One of the possible scenarios is closure.

After what they have done to the Geldmuseum I think it's plain karma. On the other hand it would be very bad if the Netherlands would no longer have its own mint after almost 450 years.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Bimat on November 05, 2015, 09:30:57 AM
The problem is a deal with Chili that they made in 2013. They had to mint 850 million chillean 100 pesos coins. There were problems with the order, a brand new packaging machine didn't work (RDM sued the producer). Also they didn't have the equipment to count so many coins so the coins had to be counted by hand. Furthermore they used low quality metal, the Chilean authorities rejected the coins (oxidation spots)  and the RDM had to pay a fine because of breach of contract. On inside footage secretly filmed by an employee, I have seen the particular coins but was unable to spot any quality problems (oxidation spots). The particular employee published the video on his Facebook page.

In 2014 the Royal Dutch Mint was unable to refund the government the face value of the mnted coins for circulation. The Dutch Ministry of Finance is the only shareholder of Royal Dutch Mint and is currently considering what to do with the mint. One of the scenarios is closure.

Can't believe that I'm reading this! Incredible! :o

Counting 850 million coins by hands?!?! They gotta be kidding!

Aditya
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on November 05, 2015, 10:15:18 AM
Royal Dutch Mint is the only company that exchanges Dutch 5 euro collectors coins, it will no longer be possible to exchange these coins when Royal Dutch Mint closes and so it will no longer be possible to pay with them (large stores that accept them also exchange them at RDM).
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on November 05, 2015, 11:09:55 AM
On inside footage secretly filmed by an employee, I have seen the particular coins but was unable to spot any quality problems (oxidation spots). The particular employee published the video on his Facebook page.

It's only now that I read in a newspaper article that the Chilean authorities asked the Mint of Chile to do the quality control of the coins. Royal Dutch Mint won the tender and because of that Mint of Chile had to close. That's probably why they rejected the coins because of "quality problems".

Chile Mint is well known for the CHIIE spelling error on their 50 Pesos coins.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Figleaf on November 05, 2015, 03:12:55 PM
It is quite appropriate that Brouwer should leave. He is responsible, even when he had no guilt.

On the side, bad quality metal cannot cause oxidation spots on freshly minted coins. Faulty packaging can damage coins before delivery, though. Anyway, the RDM story has no credibility with me as long as they do not sue Chile.

Quite another question is if the mint should close, because its pockets are not deep enough. My firm impression is that the Utrecht mint is internationally competitive as it continually manages to land foreign orders. Therefore, closing it would amount to capital destruction. Whoever is responsible for that should IMHO also leave his job. That would be the minister of finance and by extension the government.

Unfortunately, it is not that simple. The dogmatists of the political right (not known for their intellect, or they wouldn't be dogmatists) will call for closure and the political right is in power, with the ultra-right as its worst threat. Therefore, I tend to share Niels' pessimism.

Voters get the politicians they deserve.

Peter
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2015, 08:26:48 AM
No, low quality metals can for sure also cause oxidation. Oxidation appears when the metal reacts with the oxygen, which in this case means that the particular alloy shouldn't have been used. On the other hand packaging can also cause problems, the (extra) glue that has been used can also react with the coins, though I wouldn't expect that as they have been using it for other coins too without problems. Than still it may have been an outbreak of bronze disease (the ring is made out of bronze). Royal Dutch Mint had been promised that the new packaging machines could handle the 100 pesos coins but that wasn't true. The RDM isn't planning to sue Chile (that would cost a lot of time and money) but they have reached agreements with the authorities in Chile to reduce their losses.

In July 2014 they had only minted a few 100.000 coins out of the total mintage of 850 million. Also only 3 million blanks had been delivered. All of that while the total mintage should have been delivered at the end of 2013/beginning of 2014.

I have heard many people saying "Why did they take such a big risk" well many mints are still facing problems due to the introduction of the euro. When we still had the guilder, the Dutch guilder coins were the only coins that we had for payments. Now 23 countries issue euro coins that can be used in the entire Eurozone and the number of coins that needs to be minted every year has dropped because of that. In the first years there were not yet many problems as in a few years many new euro coins had to be minted for the introduction but now the number of euro coins in circulation is stable and almost no coins need to be minted (compared with the mintage figures of the guilder coins). That's why Royal Dutch Mint needs foreign orders and takes every occasion to make some more money, as the competition on the market is very high they have to submit very low bids to get the tender. What I consider to be very stupid however, is the fact that Royal Dutch Mint only has 2 engravers who aren't very experienced in the designing field. This makes that Royal Dutch Mint is almost always unable to bid on tenders for Coin Design and Minting.

It's sad that mintmaster Brouwer has to quit as mintmaster, however he will stay as adviser at the mint.The mint has had this trouble going on since 2013, so I don't understand why they didn't fully focus on this rather than being busy with making "Mintmaster" an official title in the Netherlands that can only be used by the mintmaster of the Royal Dutch Mint (Last amendment of the coinage act). I also think that too much money is being handed to the high people at the mint, Brouwer earns almost a quarter million euros a year, as has been pointed out on another forum that is 100.000 euros more than our Prime Minister.

On one side it would be good if the Royal Dutch Mint would stay a state participation because the Ministry of Finance would still be able to watch everything that happens there, on the other hand Royal Dutch Mint would have much more possibilities if the shares would be divided under the public and wouldn't need to make very high profits the Ministry of Finance demands. Royal Dutch Mint is incomparably to the other Dutch state participations in terms of profit and cashflow.

I was shocked when I read that the Royal Dutch Mint still only employs 88 people, that used to be over 130 in the past. Most full time employees have been exchanged for cheap (pay peanuts get monkeys) Slavic people who work part-time.

State Secretary of Finance Eric Wiebes is indeed considering to close the mint, which I think wouldn't be good. First of all it's good if we would have the minting of coins  in the Netherlands rather than in some foreign country. Things like happened in France at the Monnaie de Paris in 2001 can also happen at a foreign mint and than we aren't around the corner to pick up the dies and secure the minted coins. Also I consider the mint to be some kind of a status symbol as only small and poor countries let mint their coins abroad.

(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/eurocoins/cashflow2_zpsohqu5krg.jpg)

(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/eurocoins/profrdm_zpscwulourl.jpg)
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Pabitra on November 06, 2015, 10:17:20 AM
Also I consider the mint to be some kind of a status symbol as only small and poor countries let mint their coins abroad.

It is generally a matter of national priorities.
Denmark and Sweden are not poor countries.
Indonesia and Bangladesh are not small countries ( in terms of population, the major factor affecting number of coins required).
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2015, 10:41:20 AM
It is generally a matter of national priorities.
Denmark and Sweden are not poor countries.
Indonesia and Bangladesh are not small countries ( in terms of population, the major factor affecting number of coins required).

Denmark and Indonesia have their own mints, mint of Sweden has closed a few years ago after 1012 years of minting in Sweden and I consider Bangladesh to be a poor country.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Figleaf on November 06, 2015, 11:21:51 AM
For me, it's not an emotional decision but a business decision. There has been a mint in Utrecht for many centuries. Fine, but that doesn't mean there should be one there next year.

There is far too much minting capacity in the euro zone. If the US needs only two mints, the EU can do with only a few (say less than five) mints, even taking into account GNP, population and having more coin denominations. Since there will be cheating, the mints of the largest euro countries will survive the longest, so Utrecht must close eventually. No matter how inefficient the Monnaie de Paris is or how bizarre it is to have five mints in Germany, the Netherlands cannot compete with France or Germany when it comes to maintaining national mint capacity whatever the cost, so it shouldn't waste time or money trying.

The same goes for other "national pride" institutions, including the national airline (KLM is already in the hands of Air France, arguably the worse airline of the two), airplane building (Fokker is gone), car building (goodbye DAF), railroads, telephone network and post (all three still to go or in the process of going). The good news is that none of them will be missed and "national pride" has as yet not suffered.

Having said that, as long as the Utrecht mint is profitable, closing it is a bad business decision. It would cost the Dutch tax payer money. Ministers are not supposed to squander tax payers' money.

Peter
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Pabitra on November 06, 2015, 12:13:11 PM
Denmark stopped minting their own coins in 2014.

See

http://news.coinupdate.com/denmark-to-discontinue-banknote-and-coin-production-4534/

Indonesia mint makes items other than coins.

The last coin minted by them was 1000 Rupiah in 2010.

I thought the statement was "small AND poor" with logical AND.

Bangladesh may be poor in terms of per capita income but has generated employment for mint employees in Netherlands, Finland, Croatia and Japan in last 5 years.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2015, 12:22:17 PM
No the statement is:

Poor countries don't have their own mint.
Small countries don't have their own mint.
Wealthy countries have their own mint(s).
Large countries have their own mint(s).

As I have seen many versions of the story in the media, I have asked Ms De Brouwer (researcher for the newspaper which was the first to write about this story) to release further details about the particular FOIA Request that she sent. It seems that they didn't send it to the Ministry of Finance and the Royal Dutch Mint isn't subject to the Freedom of Information Act so that makes me wonder where they got the documents from.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2015, 02:14:37 PM
The same goes for other "national pride" institutions, including the national airline (KLM is already in the hands of Air France, arguably the worse airline of the two), airplane building (Fokker is gone), car building (goodbye DAF), railroads, telephone network and post (all three still to go or in the process of going). The good news is that none of them will be missed and "national pride" has as yet not suffered.

Besides the -not very funny- jokes about the Royal Dutch Mint going bankrupt, there were a lot of messages about how bad the Royal Dutch Mint would be missed and that the Netherlands isn't doing well at all as it's throwing all of its well known companies, traditions, etc. away, that we were once proud of.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on January 10, 2016, 08:30:40 PM
Full story below.

Early 2013 the Ministry of Finance started negotiating with Royal Dutch Mint about a new coinage contract. This new contract was needed due to the declining demand of coins, that caused an overcapacity at Royal Dutch Mint. The Ministry of Finance didn't want to pay for this overcapacity. Mid 2013 the concept contract has been presented to Royal Dutch Mint, which they accepted in December of that same year. This contract means that RDM needs to search for new foreign orders. At the end of 2013 Royal Dutch Mint won a tender from the National Bank of Chile for the production of X million coins which has later been incremented to 0.85 billion coins. The denominations of these coins are 1 Peso, 5 Peso, 10 Pesos en 100 Pesos. To be able to meet the requirements that were set in the contract by the Central Bank of Chile, Royal Dutch Mint had to buy new packing machines. These packing machines didn't work well, even after several attempts by technicians they still didn't work properly. The first batch of coins was rejected by the National Bank of Belgium and Spain Mint who were hired by the Ministry of Finance of Chile to do the quality control. The bad packaging had caused oxidation spots on the coins. As the machines didn't work, coins had to be counted by hand. All of that caused that RDM was unable to meet the time limit in the contract, which meant that they had to pay damages to the Central Bank of Chile. Royal Dutch Mint has sued the producer of the machinery that didn't work well. As RDM at the time didn't get paid for the order, they suffer a big loss which consists of the face value of the Dutch euro coins that Royal Dutch Mint has to refund to the Ministry of Finance every quarter. Furthermore Maarten Brouwer has withdrawn from his position as mint master but will stay as adviser. The Ministry of Finance is currently considering what to do with Royal Dutch Mint, which is a 100% state participation.

As the demand for coins has dropped, Royal Dutch Mint and the Ministry of Finance have agreed that since 2013, Royal Dutch Mint is waffling large quantities of coins. This while the storage costs were getting too high. Furthermore large quantities of uncirculated Dutch euro coins have been 'given' to Belgium (eg. 10 cent 2000).

Maybe they should start with selling their 16.7% share of World Money Fair Berlin  ::)
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Bimat on January 13, 2016, 10:36:15 AM
As the demand for coins has dropped, Royal Dutch Mint and the Ministry of Finance have agreed that since 2013, Royal Dutch Mint is waffling large quantities of coins. This while the storage costs were getting too high. Furthermore large quantities of uncirculated Dutch euro coins have been 'given' to Belgium (eg. 10 cent 2000).

You mean they stored those coins for 16 odd years?!?! What a crazy idea!

Aditya
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Figleaf on January 13, 2016, 11:08:09 AM
Yup. They built a large warehouse in the middle of a huge polder so they'd have the storage capacity for the old waffled coins. The idea was of course to have them re-melted and sell the metal. However, I suspect that the mint-masters knew too much about metal trading and not enough about bureaucracy.

Raw material prices have been depressed for a long time, especially since 2008. It would have looked like taking a loss to melt the old coins now. However, any unexpected income is a windfall in the eyes of bureaucrats, who live by budgets, not P&L statements.

Peter
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on January 30, 2016, 09:18:16 PM
The loss of Royal Dutch Mint in the year 2014 is 11.3 million euros pre-tax. Furthermore they still owe the Ministry of Finance 18 million euros, which they have to pay back from February 2017. There will also be a loss over 2015, of which the total amount is not yet known  :(

Update 23-04-2016: Loss over 2015 is 11.5 million euros.

(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/eurocoins/graph2_zpsx5llkcro.jpg)
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Figleaf on January 30, 2016, 10:04:55 PM
The level of their debt is not important. What is important is how much time they have to repay it. If the answer is 12 months, it will break the camel's back. If they get 18 years, they can pay it out of the profits and never feel the pain. The decision on whether they live or die is therefore still in the hands of the ministry of finance. As long as they put the mint's debt on their book as a credit and it gets repaid regularly, there is no problem. If they insist on early repayment, they kill the chicken that lays a 1 million egg every year. As uncertainty continues, they won't even find a capable successor for the mint master. Who wants to be the captain of a ship that may be sunk soon?

Peter
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Bimat on January 31, 2016, 07:56:17 AM
Wow, one failed Chilean contract in 2013 and RDM seems to have lost the way! A good case study for economics students!

Aditya
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on March 20, 2016, 01:47:42 PM
Royal Dutch Mint has now closed its Ebay shop 'Numismatiek'. Products were being sold there for way under the prices in their Webshop.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on April 05, 2016, 07:36:17 PM
The Dutch Ministry of Finance is going to sell the Royal Dutch Mint. When I enquired about it at the treasury earlier today, they didn't want to confirm that but very good sources now confirm this. The Dutch Ministry of Finance has contacted foreign mints, metal processors and financial investors. Royal Dutch Mint will be sold this summer. Until 2018 Dutch coins will be minted in The Netherlands, afterwards this will be tendered. :(

Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on April 06, 2016, 03:54:23 PM
Royal Dutch Mint just gave some comments on the recent news. They write in an email that they have sent to all of their clients, that they have long lasting contracts with foreign national banks and governments and that they have recently signed new contracts for the production of coins. Due to the restructuring, the costs of the production have been lowered significantly which makes that the mint is now ready for the future.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on May 02, 2016, 05:56:37 PM
Royal Dutch Mint has been ordered by the government to scrap 300 million euro coins that were in the storage. Royal Dutch Mint was in charge of keeping the storage well-stocked but it seems that they exaggerated a little bit.. Until 2020 Dutch coins will be minted at the Royal Dutch Mint afterwards the Dutch National Bank will tender this. The Dutch National Bank is now in charge of the stock of the coin storage.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Figleaf on May 02, 2016, 06:44:57 PM
I understand that completely. The last few mint masters were in essence metal traders. They looked at the stock of withdrawn coins as scrap. They probably had them on the books with a value calculated with 2000 prices. Next came the internet bubble crisis and metal prices tanked. Just when they started to recover, the Lehman crisis depressed them again and they are not back on the 2000 level yet. In other words: the scrap coins could only be sold at a loss, considering their book value.

Next, they over-produced euro coins for an economy that was constantly trying to overcome the harsh hands of rightist politicians and Chicago school economists in the Ministry of Finance. They should have written down on that stock, of course, and denied the Ministry of Finance the profits they siphoned off. Instead, they took a huge inventory price risk they were not rewarded for.

They were probably scared for their existence all the time, thinking they needed a profit to keep in existence. Wrong. Civil servants don't care about profits. They care about budgets. If you break even they're happy. If you make a profit they will be happier and sell you off eventually and only if you make a loss you'll be closed. Profit and loss can be smoothened by manipulating write-offs. Sooo...

Peter
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on May 16, 2016, 02:42:52 PM
Inter alia International Quiding from Luxembourg and PNM Global Group from California have been contacted to ask if they are interested in buying the Royal Dutch Mint.

Off topic: In 2015 the Royal Dutch Mint was unable to produce 55 million 5 euro cent coins. It turned out that Royal Dutch Mint didn't have enough blanks for the production.When they finally had enough blanks in stock, it turned out that these blanks didn't meet the specifications and the bad blanks had to be taken out by hand.

The central banks of many foreign countries only want to buy from a state-owned mint so once Royal Dutch Mint becomes a private mint they will have less potential customers.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on June 02, 2016, 10:03:23 PM
Today there were new debathes about the mint being sold. There has been decided that the government wants to maintain the tradition that commemorative coins and collectors coins are being minted in Utrecht as then a first strike ceremony can be held which the royals and special guests seem to like.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on August 23, 2016, 01:23:11 PM
For years cash transporter Brink's has transported large quantities of coins from Belgium to the Netherlands. This is one of the reasons why there were too many coins in stock in the Netherlands and so why Royal Dutch Mint was unable to mint any Dutch euro coins for years while Royal Mint of Belgium was able to still mint large quantities. This has now been stopped.

A report that was recently published following a Freedom of Information request from the Dutch newspaper 'De Volkskrant' shows that the treasury estimates that there is a high chance that the mint will be sold. If it won't be sold however, it will be closed. Many governments who tender their coin minting mention in the tender that only mints can bid of which at least 51% is owned by a government. It is unknown wether the Dutch treasury wants to sell RDM completely. I doubt there will be a future for the company if they do. In this report is being mentioned that Mint of Chile is the biggest competitor of Royal Dutch Mint for the production of circulating coins. Royal Mint of Belgium is being mentioned as the biggest competitor for the production of collectors coins, medals and tokens.

Scancoin (http://www.scancoin.nl/) turned out to be the manufacturer of the faulty machinery which caused the enormous loss. The company said it was not responsible for the damage but a recent court case against the company was won by the Royal Dutch Mint.

In its Freedom of Information Request 'De Volkskrant' also asked for any documents which show a connection between Royal Dutch Mint and European Central Mint/Patrick O. It seems that the media is eager to find a new 'scandal' after the Poongsan drama. No documents were found in the posession of the treasury concerning ECM or Patrick O.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on September 09, 2016, 05:06:13 PM
Royal Dutch Mint is the only company that exchanges Dutch 5 euro collectors coins, it will no longer be possible to exchange these coins when Royal Dutch Mint closes and so it will no longer be possible to pay with them (large stores that accept them also exchange them at RDM).

Today, Royal Dutch Mint signed an agreement with the company 'Goudwisselkantoor'. From now on Dutch collectors coins can be exchanged for face value at the branches of this company in the Netherlands and Belgium.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: chrisild on September 09, 2016, 07:16:48 PM
Hmm, wouldn't the DNB accept/exchange those too?
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on September 10, 2016, 05:03:13 PM
Hmm, wouldn't the DNB accept/exchange those too?

No, at present the Dutch National Bank doesn't exchange Dutch collectors coins.

I was quite surprised to find out about this new agreement. In April the Ministry of Finance wrote that the exchanging of collectors coins is likely going to be taken over by the Dutch National Bank. But now suddenly Royal Dutch Mint (soon no longer a state participation) has an agreement with this company that is going to take care of the exchanging of collectors coins through an agreement with RDM..
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: chrisild on September 11, 2016, 07:56:45 PM
Somewhat strange, but then again this deal probably means there will be more locations where collector coins can be exchanged. Good. :) Well, I will keep mine ...

Christian
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on October 02, 2016, 08:59:31 PM
According to several sources, the Royal Dutch Mint will cease to exist and the building will be sold to a real estate agent. I have been unable to get this story verified.

More information about the future of the mint will be released soon.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: chrisild on October 03, 2016, 11:05:54 AM
Would be sad to see the KNM "go". But if they were unable to find an external investor ... Please keep us posted, Niels!

Christian
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on November 22, 2016, 10:36:39 AM
Royal Dutch Mint has earlier today been sold to a Belgian investor (Groep Heylen). Groep Heylen already owns several minting companies like Mauquoy Token Company. There were 20 interested parties of which 10 have submitted a bid.The Ministry of Finance has sold the Royal Dutch Mint building to a real estate agent. For now the production will remain at the current building but in the long term the mint is going to move to a different building in the neighborhood of Utrecht. The Dutch eurocoins will be minted at the Royal Dutch Mint until the end of 2019, afterwards this will be put up for tender. From today on Royal Dutch Mint is allowed to issue 4 collectors coins per year whereas this first was 2.
Title: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Bimat on November 22, 2016, 03:27:36 PM
Dutch mint is sold to Belgian industrial group

November 22, 2016

The royal Dutch mint KNM has been sold to a Belgian industrial group for €3.6m. The deal will generate €2.4m for the treasury after the mint’s debts have been paid.

The buyer is Belgium’s Groep Heylen. It has pledged to keep production in the Netherlands but will need to find a new location as the current building in Utrecht has also been sold. The mint has a workforce of 90.

The government said in April it planned to sell off the mint, which has been based in Utrecht since 1567. The mint produces coins for the Netherlands and a number of foreign countries.

Groep Heylen says the Dutch mint fits in well with its portfolio, which includes Belgian firms Mauquoy Token Company, National Tokens and Royal Blanking International. These firms all produce metal tokens and medals.

Source: Dutch News (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/11/dutch-mint-is-sold-to-belgian-industrial-group/)
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Enlil on November 22, 2016, 10:38:37 PM
What about the building, what protection does it have?
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on November 23, 2016, 03:36:06 PM
Almost half of the staff of the Royal Dutch Mint has been fired over the last year (from 160 to 85). Groep Heylen wanted to leave the building because it does not consider it to be fit for coin production (which is in fact true). Royal Dutch Mint is going to mint more coins for South America, Africa and Asia because these are growing markets. Groep Heylen also wants to win the tender for the production of Belgian eurocoins. The company was sold for 3.6 million euros. The building was sold for 11.1 million euros.

What about the building, what protection does it have?

What do you mean?
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: chrisild on November 23, 2016, 10:47:53 PM
If the question about protection refers to whether a new owner could tear the building down, the answer is No. The Muntgebouw (https://monumentenregister.cultureelerfgoed.nl/monuments/514180?Province=Utrecht&Town=Utrecht&City=Utrecht&Street=Leidseweg&HouseNumber=90) is a protected historic monument.

Christian
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on January 03, 2017, 08:50:31 PM
Some new details have now emerged. Less than 1% of the checked coins were found to be faulty. After the Dutch mint was informed that the batch was rejected they stored it in a warehouse in Chile. At first the faulty coins were picked out by hand but as there were way too many coins to be checked, the Royal Dutch Mint ordered a Dutch company to build a machine that was able to detect the faulty coins. The machine, which had to be built from scratch, was finished within 3,5 weeks. For 7 months they ran coins through the machine (which processed 10 coins/second). A lot of time was lost because of the unqualified (I would also call them retarded) staff that was available in Chile to run the machine.

Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: chrisild on January 06, 2017, 11:07:05 PM
Hmm, now it would be even more interesting to learn about who profited from the failed deal.

Christian
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Figleaf on January 06, 2017, 11:12:54 PM
The Chilean mint workers who wanted the job for themselves, I guess.

Peter
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on January 06, 2017, 11:34:20 PM
AND the Chilean company that delivered the retarded employees who had to sift through the coins in the warehouse to find the faulty ones. They charged an enormously high amount of money for that. RDM didn't have much choice other than to do business with them anyway because the fines they would get from the Chilean government because of breach of contract if they didn't deliver in time were sky high too.

AND Groep Heylen who really got a bargain, I think.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on May 03, 2017, 10:06:31 PM
Almost 6 months after the take-over I start to doubt if it really was a good decision to keep the mint opened. Since the acquisition by Groep Heylen, they have not received any new major orders. On the contrary, they have only lost clients (e.g. Malta). This is partially caused by the fact that they, due to the take-over, are no longer able to bid on many tenders as many central banks demand the mint to be governmentially owned for at least 51%. This includes Bangladesh which for years was a major client of the Royal Dutch Mint.

After the take-over Groep Heylen announced that they want to expand the Mint's business in South America, Africa and Asia. That is of course much more easily said then done. South America and Asia are highly competitive markets and in both continents very high standards are expected from the mints and again it is far from uncommon there to have rules that specify that only government-owned mints can bid on the tenders.

Nothing has so far happened with Royal Dutch Mint's plans to start a joint venture with International Quidding Sarl (a producer of luxuruous bottle caps) based in Luxembourg. Although the only way for mints to remain in existence is diversification, I highly doubt this is the right company to do so. Shifty is the right word I think.

Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on September 23, 2017, 08:18:16 PM
Royal Dutch Mint will next year move to a smaller building. It has earlier mentioned it will stay in Utrecht.
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Figleaf on September 23, 2017, 08:38:05 PM
That would leave the government with an empty shell that once housed two of their services: the mint and the Geldmuseum. Everybody loses.

Peter
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: chrisild on September 24, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
Not really. ;) As for who owns the building, see this story (from about a year ago):
https://www.rtlz.nl/algemeen/binnenland/gebouw-de-munt-in-utrecht-voor-111-miljoen-euro-verkocht

Seems that the mint building is already used as an event location (https://www.theattentiongroup.nl/exploitaties). So there may in the future be more such activities ...

Christian
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: Pellinore on January 23, 2018, 12:43:46 AM
And now the Dutch mint is going to make Belgian coins. Excellent!
— Paul
Title: Re: Financial situation Royal Dutch Mint
Post by: eurocoin on January 23, 2018, 08:45:26 AM
Things are indeed improving for the Dutch mint. Recently they were also working on an order for Jamaica. They have never before minted coins for that country.

For quite some time we haven't heard anything about the move out of the building on the Leidseweg. I hope it will not happen. Around 2001 they also announced they were going to move but that eventually never happened either.