World of Coins

Modern coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens of other continents => North Africa => Topic started by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 01:13:35 AM

Title: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 01:13:35 AM
Sorry, this one's not good. ø21mm, base metal not silver, 3.6g. Unfortunately it's so worn I can't even guess at the correct orientation, but something tells me one of you will know what it is. ;)

Cheers,
MBE
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: bagerap on February 26, 2016, 01:28:35 AM
Working on this, still not sure. Turn bottom image 180º.
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 01:30:32 AM
There. Should save your neck a bit.  :P
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: capnbirdseye on February 26, 2016, 10:36:39 AM
from Turkey I would think
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: Figleaf on February 26, 2016, 10:52:34 AM
Close. Egypt 5/10 qirsh 1293/13 (1887), KM 291.

Peter
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 12:25:22 PM
Thanks Peter - good work! :)
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 12:32:21 PM
Would this be the same, but a later date?

Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: Figleaf on February 26, 2016, 12:43:14 PM
That's a different type. Here is the 0.2 qirsh of the same series, showing the other side.

Peter
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 01:54:32 PM
Sorry Peter, I just meant is it another Egyptian 5/10 Qirsh?

Edit: Note to self: it's 5 milliemes.  ;)
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 01:59:05 PM
I'm learning a bit here, I think - the design in the middle is the toughra, or signature of the sultan (is this Sultan Abdul Hamid II?), and the other side shows an arabic numeral for the denomination? What about the second one - can you tell me the year and who the figure is please?
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 02:29:09 PM
That's gone some way to identifying the coin I was going to post next, which I'll post here because it's obviously Egyptian too. The toughra appears similar to the first coin, although it's hard to be certain. It's larger, at 24mm, so I'm guessing this may be 1 Qirsh? Can you tell me the date please?

Thanks again,
MBE
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: Pabitra on February 26, 2016, 02:34:53 PM
Second one is 1941
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: bagerap on February 26, 2016, 02:36:24 PM
Turkey 40 para 1327 ah 1916/17 KM# 779
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: Pabitra on February 26, 2016, 02:39:50 PM
1941 was King Farouk in Egypt
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 02:54:36 PM
Turkey 40 para 1327 ah 1916/17 KM# 779

That'd be right, I said it must be Egyptian. :D How come they have the similar toughra?
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 02:57:07 PM
1941 was King Farouk in Egypt

Thank you.
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: Afrasi on February 26, 2016, 03:11:12 PM
It's the same sultan.  :)
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 03:51:13 PM
Thanks, sorry, my history is poor - I'm having to read up on everything as it comes up. So the first and third coin are Ottoman Empire pieces, with the third just pre-dating the Turkish War of Independence in 1919? Is my understanding correct?
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: bagerap on February 26, 2016, 04:02:36 PM
The Ottoman sultan in 1887 was Abdulhamid II and in 1916/17  Mehmed Murad V.  The British appointed a sultan in Egypt, Hussein Kamel December 1914 - October 1917.
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 04:07:13 PM
Thanks bagerap. Can you tell me what about the third coin indicates that it is Turkish please?
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: FosseWay on February 26, 2016, 05:47:32 PM
Do you mean the coin you posted in reply no. 10?

If so, the mintname is to the left of the denomination, قسطنطینية (Qustantiniya) - noticeable for the two letters T that look like Latin lower-case b. The mintname on the Egyptian pieces is مصر‎ (Misr), which is upside down at 12 o'clock in the top image of your original post.

Personally, I disagree with most catalogues' (including KM's) practice of filing Ottoman coins under Egypt and Turkey as if these places were the equivalent of the modern states with those names. I file both under "Ottoman Empire" with appropriate subdivisions in my collection.
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on February 26, 2016, 06:24:32 PM
Thanks FosseWay, yes, that's the one I meant. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on March 07, 2016, 12:00:41 AM
Right then, let's see if I've learnt anything.  ;D

Am I correct in saying that these are Egyptian 5 & 10 milliemes, both 1362AH, i.e. 1943?

The 5 milliemes I posted earlier in the thread was 1941, so was there a change from cupro-nickel? to copper between these dates?

Thanks,
MBE
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: Figleaf on March 07, 2016, 09:48:31 AM
You got them right. You don't even have to calculate the AD date, since it is on the coin, opposite the AH date. These values were round and cu-ni until 1941, but from 1938, there were bronze, scalloped coins produced also. The reason is obvious. Nickel is a precious war material. Bronze (copper hardened with tin and aluminium) less so. Copper is better available than nickel. There's not a lot of aluminium in bronze and you can leave it out. Tin is not a war material.

The shape was chosen so that people could distinguish old and new coins at a glance. That may have been a sop to the conservative or it may have been so that the coppers could be more easily withdrawn after the war. In fact, these values were struck in brass after the war. I guess that in 1938, the Egyptian powers that be hadn't counted on Rommel getting so close to them.

Peter
Title: Re: Egyptian coins
Post by: mrbadexample on March 07, 2016, 10:43:01 AM
Thanks Peter, I had spotted that both dates were on the coin but worked them both out to cross-check, as it were. I seem to be making a little progress with my identification, at least. I still have a few to ask about though. :)