World of Coins

Modern Asian coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens => Indian subcontinent: Mughal, Princely states and colonial (1526-1947) => Mughal central government => Topic started by: asm on April 08, 2009, 11:10:39 AM

Title: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: asm on April 08, 2009, 11:10:39 AM
This Silver rupee seems to be an issue of the Surat Mint. RY Ahd (1) is clearly seen as is the mint or daroga mark. However, nither the name of the ruler nor the mint is clearly visable. Is it possible to make an attribution from the data available.
Amit
Title: Re: British India or Mughal?
Post by: Oesho on April 09, 2009, 12:14:37 AM
See reply at ZENO #69244 (http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=69244&cat=all&date=1239143462).
Title: Re: British India or Mughal?
Post by: asm on April 09, 2009, 06:34:06 AM
Oesho,
Thank you for the confirmation. I found that there is no listing of RY 1 for Alamgir II in the Standard Catalogue that I have. It lists only RY 4 and RY 5. Could that rule out Alamgir II?
Amit
Title: Re: British India or Mughal?
Post by: Oesho on April 09, 2009, 01:07:07 PM
I have a rupee + 1/2 rupee Ry. 2 of Alamgir II, therefore I wouldn't rule out a year Ahd for Alamgir II either.
Title: Re: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: asm on April 10, 2009, 07:04:05 AM
Oesho,
Thank you for the information.
I have a few other similar Rupees but some have different marks. One has a vertical line instead of the flower while one has a sort of dots arranged to form a circle. The name of the emperor is not fully clear on these coins. Is there any way I can attribute them from these marks?
BTW, I also found in my collection, one RY 2 Rupee of Surat of Alalgir II.
Amit.
Title: Re: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: Oesho on April 10, 2009, 01:09:09 PM
Yet it is possible to to attribute Surat coins by the mint-marks. They pretty frequently changed during the earlier period (particular during the reign of Muhammad Shah). During the later Mughals they only used the flower mark.
Do list some of the coins on this website and we may try to attribute them.
Title: Re: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: asm on May 18, 2009, 01:05:49 PM
Oesho,
Here are 4 coins which I am able to attribute to Shah Jahan II or III. Is it possible to narrow down the attribution to any one of the 2? The year in all probability is Ahd on all coins. i am sorry for the poor quality of the pictures as the coins are in coin holders. In case some sharpness or better quality is needed, I will open out the coin and rephotograph them.
Amit

(I have changed the images on 26 May 09 - Amit)
Title: Re: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: asm on May 20, 2009, 01:53:06 PM
Oesho,
did you see these coins? Is any further attribution possible?
Amit
Title: Re: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: Oesho on May 20, 2009, 04:13:25 PM
Did you see these coins? Is any further attribution possible?

Yes I did see the coins, but hadn’t time to verify them with the coins of Shah Jahan II / III. After looking at them, I am convinced that none of the above coins is of Shah Jahan II. The coins of Shah Jahan II of Surat mint are all missing the three dots below the B of Zarb near the end of the R of Zarb. On the early issues these cluster of three dots is also missing, but on later dates (Ty.17 ,19, etc.) they are present. This cluster of three dots is also visible on the issues of Alamgir II and as the are also present on the above issues, Shah Jahan II can be safely ruled out. Therefore it must be issues of Shah Jahan III or native imitations of perhaps Bhaunagar (see our earlier  discussion (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,3281.0.html) on this subject)


Title: Re: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: asm on May 21, 2009, 10:20:15 AM
Oesho,
Thanks for the clarifications. So I was indeed correct to have attributed them to Shah Jehan III. I do remember the discussion and infact, I had planned to upload the images along with that topic. I do not know what went wrong.
What was puzzling was the mint mark (I hope they are mint marks) on the reverse of the coins. On the First two coins, they appear as a flower while on the third it is like 'l'. Could this be an indicator that may help to prove that they were indeed struck by a mint other than Surat. On the fourth the mark is off flan.
Amit
Title: Re: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: Oesho on May 21, 2009, 11:08:33 AM
Yes, the mintmarks shown on your coins are an indication that they are not of Surat mint, but of another mint, most probably Bhaunaggar. In the mean time I have found more documentary evidence about it and I intend to write a note about it for the Journal of the ONS.
For that reason I would be extremely happy to get high resolution images of those Shah Jahan III rupees you have. Would this be possible? Kindly send them directly to me. ( lingen@wxs.nl ). Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: asm on May 21, 2009, 11:44:42 AM
Oesho,
I will photograph these coins in better light this Sunday with the maximum resolution that is possible. In case you need scans, I can scan them too (with a high resolution). I would be more than happy to have been of help to the numismatic community. I do recall (but I am not 100% sure) that I have some more of these coins put away somewhere. Will seriously try to look for them and send them if I can find them shortly. Look forward to the note in the ONS.
Amit
Title: Re: Mughal Rupee - Surat
Post by: asm on June 23, 2009, 12:14:42 PM
Oesho, this is one more coin that came out from my box. The RY 2 is clearly seen as is the mint (SURAT). Only small marks are seen at the place where the name of the ruler is engraved. From the type and the marks, can this one be attributed?
Amit