World of Coins

Design and designing => Coin design => Members' designs => Topic started by: annovi.frizio on October 19, 2014, 12:54:41 AM

Title: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: annovi.frizio on October 19, 2014, 12:54:41 AM
some ideas:

http://www.friziodesign.it/coins20.html (http://www.friziodesign.it/coins20.html)

(http://www.friziodesign.it/coins/one-pound.png)

(http://www.friziodesign.it/coins/one-poundB.png)

:-)
I hope you appreciate, kind regards :-)

--------------
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: annovi.frizio on October 19, 2014, 12:37:21 PM
(http://www.friziodesign.it/coins/5-3d.png)

 ::) ::)
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: Miner on October 19, 2014, 12:46:25 PM
Big Ben is original - a circle inscribed in a square that is inscribed in the dodecahedron
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: chrisild on October 19, 2014, 12:59:53 PM
Agreed, I like the Big Ben design too. Might be better for a possible later phase with various £1 designs, but that should be discussed by the British. Another (minor) issue that both design, Big Ben and the British Museum, have the face value in one curved line and one straight line. Some may like that, others may not. ;)

Christian
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: Figleaf on October 19, 2014, 01:18:38 PM
I agree. The Big Ben design is original, yet very British, with interesting shapes, yet not abstract. I seem to remember that there was a public contest for the design of this coin and that non-British can participate.

Peter
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: andyg on October 19, 2014, 01:44:31 PM
I would argue that Big Ben is English - not British....
It's a very tough brief - "something British"

Very nice design though :)
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: annovi.frizio on October 19, 2014, 02:45:11 PM
(http://www.friziodesign.it/coins/one-poundC.png)

http://www.friziodesign.it/coins20.html (http://www.friziodesign.it/coins20.html)

 ;) :D
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 19, 2014, 03:40:30 PM
Are you not entering designs then? I won't publish any of mine until I've been announced as a loser.

I'm going to be critical just from the point of view of the competition.

Big Ben is in London. I know it's the centre of the UK politics wise, but I avoided it.
The other one I'm not sure what it is, and the design brief made some comment about it being easy to tell that it represents Britain and Britishness (whatever that is). The last one is a poppy or something? Might be okay for a war coin, but I'm not so sure it'd go down that well with being explicit when representing the UK. Also the lion is English. There's no Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

It's not easy,especially not being British and understanding all of the major problems every design could entail. i have designs that I ripped to shreds because i didn't like them. I like how you've presented them though, I've been using a few programs but could make anything look so real like that. I've just been playing with simple embossing.

Title: Re: new pound
Post by: Figleaf on October 20, 2014, 10:15:51 AM
It's not exactly news to me that Big Ben is in London. ;) However, while "London" is not a symbol of the UK, Big Ben may be a symbol of something bigger than London.

A first indication that it is, can be found in the marketing of travel organisations. The cliché for the UK is Big Ben, preferably combined with Tower bridge. The cliché for France is the Eiffel Tower (firmly grounded in Paris), preferably combined with a fat guy on a bicycle with a beret, a big moustache and a baguette in his armpit. The cliché for Italy is not the Coliseum in Rome, but the tower of Pisa, though. Apparently, towers are great stuff to symbolise a country and the tower doesn't have to be in the capital.

The towers also say something about the country's character. The tower of Pisa is a beautiful piece of architecture, but its main attraction now is that it's leaning. I am sure Italian artists from Michelangelo to Bernini would agree that beauty is (much) more important than perfection. The Eiffel tower was a technically advanced construction at its time, but today, it is appreciated more for its elegant shape, as in fashion, toiletry, internal decoration and even high speed train design. In the same sense, Big Ben was once a marvel of timekeeping, necessary for accurate navigation at sea, but today, it is a symbol of the parliament building of Westminster, which in turn is a symbol of parliamentary democracy, ranging from independence from kings to "her majesty's loyal opposition". Those are generic values Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would generally support.

Peter
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: annovi.frizio on October 20, 2014, 10:21:03 AM
Thank you... :)
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 20, 2014, 10:27:50 AM
I think the biggest problem with Big Ben is, that it's a symbol of the UK for foreigners, but less so for british people, and even less so for those in Wales, NI and Scotland.

You never know, they might take something from this, i'm not really sure on the thinking of the judges, but the fact that Big Ben has never appeared on UK coins suggests to me that they might not do it this time either.

The problem now is you have the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament too. There's talk of reducing the power Scottish MPs have in Westminster and so on. How well would this coin make it in the future?

The fact that it is so debatable, is it's problem.

Look at previous designs, you have bridges, flowers, national symbols, that's about it. Britannia is probably the best symbol of the UK as a whole, their "no people" rule covers this or now? I doubt it, so maybe they'll go for Britannia again, the mint probably doesn't want this based on their silver and gold coins, but the mint isn't choosing the design, I would have thought and certainly doesn't have last say (the queen does).

I'm hoping something a bit different comes along, either with these but not looking traditional, or something really different. But I think buildings will not appear unless you can get 4 on a coin, and i think this coin will be too small for that.

Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 20, 2014, 10:28:16 AM
Frizio, are you not entering the competition?
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: chrisild on October 20, 2014, 11:33:49 AM
Look at previous designs, you have bridges, flowers, national symbols, that's about it. Britannia is probably the best symbol of the UK as a whole, their "no people" rule covers this or now?

In my opinion, Britannia is not a person in the sense of the competition rules. :)  In the FAQ section, the Mint says: "In seeking to have a design that is to represent the whole of the UK, selecting one person would represent a challenging choice, especially if that person is still alive."

Britannia is not an individual but a personification of the country, and thus would be OK to use. But as you wrote, a design built around her might "collide" with the bullion coin. What I like about Frizio's "Big Ben" design is that this reverse would not feature the Houses of Parliament, and not even the Clock/Elizabeth Tower, but simply the dial. Instantly recognizable, and yet far enough from being a political statement, I think.

Then again there is that sentence in the competition tips which says "Successful coinage designs commonly feature emblems or symbols and are often heraldic in their inspiration." Sounds like a hint to me. ;)

Christian
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 20, 2014, 11:36:07 AM
Yeah, they did the same hint for the 1p-50p competition that Matthew Dent won, and, well, he chose the shield.

Title: Re: new pound
Post by: FosseWay on October 20, 2014, 08:05:41 PM
I really like the Big Ben one as well, but share the suspicion that it would not be acceptable for being too English. It would be ideal as the English edition of a series of four.

The problem with buildings is the same as with people - they inevitably come from somewhere and invite accusations of favouritism towards that place. Plants and animals (if you ignore the heraldically significant ones at least) don't have this issue - this I think is one of the reasons behind the success of the Irish farmyard coins. They didn't refer to anywhere in particular and didn't have the kind of cultural overtones that were/are sensitive in the political context in Ireland.

From the political rather than the aesthetic view, buildings will only work as part of a series, either as the £1 has traditionally been used for in consecutive years, or as part of a group of denominations (compare the heraldic devices referring to the countries in Christopher Ironside's series).
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: annovi.frizio on October 20, 2014, 11:27:44 PM
again...  :-)

(http://www.friziodesign.it/coins/5-3dddd.jpg)

http://www.friziodesign.it/coins20.html (http://www.friziodesign.it/coins20.html)

 ;D
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: chrisild on October 21, 2014, 03:35:51 PM
It is bad enough that the face value has to be "text only", but that is a political decision, I suppose. Adding even more text to the reverse of a circulation (non-commem) coin would be too much in my opinion ...

Christian
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 21, 2014, 03:39:53 PM
I don't think it has to be text only, the text has to be there for one pound, other than that you can do what you like.

But yeah, I'm not a fan of so much text on coins. There's been a few 2 pound coins like that.
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: annovi.frizio on October 21, 2014, 10:51:50 PM
shakespeare?? this is the right theme for all the united kingdom citizens ?? :-)
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 21, 2014, 10:54:38 PM
No, Shakespeare is English, and the Scots, Welsh and Irish would be demanding people like Dylan Thomas on the coin too.

It's the problem with one coin representing Britishness. It's almost impossible..... with the exception of generic royal stuff.
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: annovi.frizio on October 21, 2014, 11:02:34 PM
war ? victory? colonialism? army? flag? tea? muffins? wallace & gromit???  what is right ?  8) 8) 8) 8) ???
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 21, 2014, 11:06:25 PM
To be honest, right is hard. If you look at previous 1 pound coins what do you see?

You have flowers, bridges, coat of arms, animals.

Problem is you'd have to have all of them on one coin, to represent the whole country.

Suggestions of Britishness would be Britannia, and the coat of arms. Or getting 4 things on one coins.

Perhaps a bulldog, can't see it being a nice coin though, or..... a grim cloud, that's very British.
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: Figleaf on October 21, 2014, 11:32:15 PM
The real problem is the Scottish plebiscite, which has framed minds into thinking that what is English cannot be Scottish and vice versa, let alone Welsh and N. Irish. Sure, Shakespeare is English, but he is also a central influence on modern English. That language is a unifier of the bits and pieces you think must necessarily be pictured separately. Or, to turn the frame of mind inside out, if England and Scotland really had practically nothing in common, the yes vote would have carried.

I do understand your argument that the jury may not agree, but that just makes it a communication issue. Your design (or a comment on it, if that is allowed) must convey a powerful message or it will sink in a sea of ideas. Here's an example:

STOP! Were you going to disqualify this design because Shakespeare is English? Think again. He symbolises the language spoken in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The language that unites, rather than divides them.

Peter
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: chrisild on October 21, 2014, 11:40:35 PM
Were you going to disqualify this design because Shakespeare is English?

No. We, the jury, did not vote for it because, for a regular circulation coin, it has way too much text.

 ;D  Christian
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 21, 2014, 11:56:28 PM
The reason I'd disqualify it is because part of the design brief is that no person is to be part of the design. Surely Shakespeare is, or was, a person. Anything related to just one person will almost certainly be automatically disqualified.

I don't think Shakespeare is a symbol of the English Language. He wrote in English, he was the most successful English/British author, but he didn't exist in a time of the United Kingdom. His Queen was Queen of England and Ireland, not of Scotland.

Like I said, Shakespeare is the best known English writer, Dylan Thomas write in English, Robert Burns on the other hand wrote in Scots language.

But already we are showing why Shakespeare can't represent "Britishness", it's too contentious. We could go on all day about this. If the press had to release a coin on Britishness that was so contentious, the Royal Mint would have egg on their faces.

4 coins of 4 of the most successful writers, one from each country, fine, but just one, it wouldn't work.

Cervantes can be on a Spanish coin, but not Shakespeare on a British coin. It's just the way it is.

If you want a coin about the English language, it's still going to be contentious, because it's not the only language in the country. It's fine to use just English on the coin, but for the coin to be about English, wouldn't go down well either.

Does it unite? Sure, at times, does it separate? I've lived in Wales and seen how it can.

Title: Re: new pound
Post by: Figleaf on October 22, 2014, 12:25:28 AM
As I said, it's an example. It's not about any design or idea. I just used the last idea presented to make it more practical. My point is simply that you don't need four mini-designs and that they would be more divisive than common ground. In fact, what has Northern Ireland, or Wales, or Scotland to do with Brittannia? It's just a neo-classical personification of the sort that was popular centuries ago that the Mint forced upon the population without asking their opinion.

(Btw, Rabbie Burns wrote mostly in English and Cervantes did not write in Catalan or Basque, both languages spoken locally in Spain.)

Peter
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: davidrj on October 22, 2014, 02:22:17 AM
A nice use of bimetallic coins would be the reprise of classic designs from British coinage, for example the central portion could be Celtic, Saxon, Norman etc. The French Mint used this idea in the latter days of the Franc

eg Dupre's design from the Convention

http://www.lefranc.net/images/franc/f229.jpg
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: annovi.frizio on October 23, 2014, 12:13:58 AM
idea...

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-g8PPTM5mJCY/UU1ja2j9c4I/AAAAAAAACF4/5VUSNlCMRgQ/s1600/Stonehenge-STUKELY.jpg)
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 25, 2014, 10:02:04 AM
Stonehenge right?

It's English. Pre-Anglo Saxon and all of that, but we don't know that much about this period of time so it doesn't really represent anyone other than those who living in England.
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: Figleaf on October 25, 2014, 10:29:50 AM
Saxons are post-Roman (at least in England) and Stonehenge is (very far) pre-Roman. It's not English, but it's also not British. It just happens to be in England, just like dolmen happen to be in the Netherlands, India, Ireland or Korea. It would look great on a coin, but I agree that it doesn't meet the instructions of the Mint, so the design would be disqualified in the first selection.

Peter
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 31, 2014, 09:37:06 AM
Competition over, can get back to real life. It was fun, I've done maybe three or four designs I'd be happy to see on a coin, and quite a few more that weren't that great but the idea perhaps had more potential than I could actually put into a design or had the patience for.

Clearly can't put any good designs up as they're in the competition, and the bad ones, well.... Also had some that would never meet the requirements, usually for copyright reasons. I probably put in like 40 or more designs, though with a few with different variations of a similar design.

I figure there's a 270 times less chance of winning this one than the Olympic design competition. But it'll be interesting to see the new coin and hopefully with a really nice design.
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: Figleaf on October 31, 2014, 10:54:19 AM
Wish you good luck, augsburger. Hope you had some fun and that it wasn't just work.

Peter
Title: Re: new pound
Post by: augsburger on October 31, 2014, 11:11:41 AM
It's great to be able to get into something and have fun with it all, but having that deadline to make you get it done. It took me a while to get used to using computer packages but in the end I got used to using them, and they make things a lot easier in the end, changing designs and so on.
Title: Re: New pound coins in 2017
Post by: RabensteinK on November 01, 2014, 12:32:08 AM
For what it's worth, my own submissions featured:
(1) a 21st century version of the medieval Groat based on those of Henry VII and VIII - which in its day fulfilled a similar role to the pound today;
(2) a Union Jack background on the ring with a retained £1 Royal Shield (and hence the option to reuse previous annual constituent nations editions in later years) on the pill;
(3) Parliaments and Assemblies of the UK - sadly I was refused permission to use their emblems, so had to go for the physical buildings instead, with or without the Westminster portcullis (that's also on the old thrupenny and penny);
(4) the complete series of Dent's pence coins making up the Shield with a modernised "crossword" ONE POUND logo design;
(5) British Justice, with a quote from the Magna Carta - virtually certain to be the subject of commemorative coins next year - as well as the emblem of the Supreme Court and Lady Justice from the Old Bailey;
(6) Elizabethan Drama, with quotes from Shakespeare, Jonson, Marlowe, Kyd, Webster, Dekker and Middleton as well as a picture of the Swan theatre; and
(7) a combination of (3) with a partial version of the Shield on the ring.

Let's hear others' ideas/designs? We have to while away the time over the winter months while the committee laboriously works through its submissions pile somehow ...
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: RabensteinK on November 01, 2014, 01:38:23 AM
Am full of admiration, as always, for both Frizio's elegant designs and his enthusiasm. We need more of that. I do hope he has submitted to the competition.
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: annovi.frizio on November 01, 2014, 07:39:32 AM
Thank you very much. :)
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: Pabitra on November 01, 2014, 07:47:09 AM
Nice designs, Annovi.

However, kindly note

1. The new design was necessitated by too many counterfeits.

2. security in coins is composed of machine and human readable/ recognisable features which are difficult to counterfeit since they need to have economies of scale.

3. Currently most popular feature which is recognisable by human eye is latent image which you can see on Canadian Dollars as well as on coins of Libya, Syria etc.

None of your designs includes latent image hence may cause you disappointment unless selection committee decides to select a design and add this feature.

Just my thought.
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: augsburger on November 01, 2014, 09:49:03 AM
Latent images are hard to get down on a paper design, so I think most designs will not have this at all. Those who are invited and can make their own models might have an advantage, but still I'm not sure if they'd get this on the model looking well.

I think if they really want latent images they'll work with the short listed designers, or they'd have put something in the competition, so I really don't think it'll be a problem.
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: augsburger on November 01, 2014, 09:33:00 PM
Interestingly this medal was on the Royal Mint's facebook page today.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1509855_736966433044605_196665867840602191_n.jpg?oh=4fe55b46a5f00e7e462216e7f95d266f&oe=54EF929C&__gda__=1425592862_79860d0a206f56d7456599fae211c9af)
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: annovi.frizio on November 01, 2014, 09:34:48 PM
what means ?   ???
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: Figleaf on November 01, 2014, 09:38:05 PM
Immagine latente, che dipende dall'angolo della luce.

Peter

Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: augsburger on November 02, 2014, 09:58:38 AM
The actual design is described here:

"Some great guesses! A. It is the specially minted 2014 Premium Medal! Only available with the Premium Proof Set, this medal showcases cutting edge security techniques and a beautiful, intricate design based on the armour of King Henry VIII’s horse"

and what someone said about it: "Ian Laming I have to agree with Sue - I so do not like that. It has to be one of the ugliest medals ever minted by the Royal Mint. It looks like something a five year old has drawn."

If I were 5 and could draw like that I'd be pretty happy. Whether it works as a medal is a different matter. I think the latent image is just stuck in the middle and doesn't make sense with the actual design of the medal. But it's a trial piece I guess.
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: andyg on November 02, 2014, 10:50:56 AM
"Some great guesses! A. It is the specially minted 2014 Premium Medal! Only available with the Premium Proof Set

I read "sales are down quite a bit since we doubled the price of the proof sets - we don't want to admit we were wrong and that we actually made more money when they were cheaper - so what can we do to make it look like the customer gets more for their money than they used to....?"
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: augsburger on November 02, 2014, 11:03:12 AM
But then how much is such a medal going to actually be worth?

I stopped buying the cheapest set because I didn't think it was worth the money. I've stopped buying 5 pound coins. I actually don't buy anything from them any more. Do I want a medal? No. I'm a coin collector.
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: augsburger on March 20, 2015, 05:34:55 PM
The design has been chosen. Here's one of my designs using the flowers of each of the four parts.
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: augsburger on March 20, 2015, 05:37:56 PM
Here's a flag map combo!
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: augsburger on March 20, 2015, 05:40:43 PM
Here's a flag thing.
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: augsburger on March 20, 2015, 05:43:54 PM
An old coin spin off, I did various designs of this, most looking pretty similar.

Some of the designs had United Kingdom written in four languages, Welsh, Gaelic, Scots and English instead of the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland thing.
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: Figleaf on March 20, 2015, 06:08:08 PM
Thanks for showing, Augsburger. It's easy to criticise designs, but more difficult to plug into what people - rightly or wrongly - want to see on their coins. Apart from the flag design, I think you succeeded.

Unsurprisingly, I spent most time studying the flag design. I can see how the Daily Mail crowd would have derided it as the flag coming apart, but what I see is the concept of influence. Britishness does not stop at the border and the country is not at all free of non-British influences. A Briton can go to France, speak English with the hotel reception people, shop at Marks and Spencer, but also buy the French wine he likes. The same person can stay at home, communicate with a German intern at work, eat a vegetarian meal at an Indian restaurant but also buy a British cheese that goes well with his French wine.

Peter
Title: Re: UK: Designs for new Pound Coins
Post by: augsburger on March 20, 2015, 06:30:23 PM
I don't mind criticism, the amount that went into the designs from my other half helped me to push myself and not get blinded by enthusiasm.


 But it's damn hard to produce a design that you A) think can win and B) you'd be happy to show people. There are other designs I won't put on here because I wasn't that happy with them. A month of designing and you realise that the pressure gets to you. Seeing the design the other made me rethink most of what I had done. How I could have made it better and so on. But then you think back and working with various ideas and trying to get it all together without going insane, and you just have to tell yourself you did what you could.

I'm happy, I sent in designs I can be somewhat proud of, unlike the competition which Dent won and I produced one design set that I didn't even like half the designs of.