World of Coins

Collecting coins => Coin collecting => Topic started by: <k> on July 04, 2010, 08:27:17 PM

Title: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on July 04, 2010, 08:27:17 PM
Pitcairn is a British dependency but uses the NZ dollar. The Cook Islands and Niue are territories of New Zealand.

The Niue and Pitcairn sets come from the NZ mint, but who minted the Cook Islands set?
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on July 04, 2010, 08:31:50 PM
Three more sets, all belonging to Tristan da Cunha.  I believe these were all produced by the Commonwealth Mint.

1] Stoltenhoff Island, 2008.  Uninhabited island belonging to Tristan da Cunha.

2] Gough Island, 2009.  Uninhabited island belonging to Tristan da Cunha.

3] Tristan da Cunha.

Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on July 04, 2010, 08:41:54 PM
This set of tokens from the Cocos (Keeling) Islands is official. The set was produced by "Roger Williams Mint".

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2128.0;attach=91675;image)

See also Cocos (Keeling) Islands - Official Tokens of 2004. (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,2128.0.html)

Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on July 04, 2010, 08:48:09 PM
These Andorra and Nagorno-Karabakh sets come from the Kremnica Mint in Slovakia.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: Figleaf on July 04, 2010, 09:50:40 PM
For a while, I thought that by "official" you meant something like "issued by or with the explicit permission of authorities actually in control in the territory in question, independent of the question of who is legally in charge", but after you said Cocos Keeling was official, I was confused. So what do you mean by "official"?

Peter
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on July 04, 2010, 10:07:12 PM
For a while, I thought that by "official" you meant something like "issued by or with the explicit permission of authorities actually in control in the territory in question, independent of the question of who is legally in charge", but after you said Cocos Keeling was official, I was confused. So what do you mean by "official"?

Peter

By official, I mean those locally "legally" in charge and actually in control, whether or not they are recognised by the outside world. So Cocos Keeling comes under this category, as does Transnistria.

Give me an example of a country or countries, recognised or unrecognised, with someone actually illegally in control?

This is getting complicated!
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: andyg on July 04, 2010, 10:17:31 PM

Give me an example of a country or countries, recognised or unrecognised, with someone actually illegally in control?


Tibet ???
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: Figleaf on July 05, 2010, 01:38:16 AM
Give me an example of a country or countries, recognised or unrecognised, with someone actually illegally in control?

You probably mean that those in control usually bother to make themselves legal according to local law. However, I was thinking of international law. By that standard, several authorities mentioned above may be in control, but not in accordance with international law. Remember the "pacta sunt servanda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacta_sunt_servanda)" rule: international law takes precedence over local law.

The issuers of the pieces of the Cocos-Keeling islands are neither de facto nor de jure in control of the islands.

Peter
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: Ukrainii Pyat on July 05, 2010, 02:34:41 AM
Transdnestr currency actually does circulate there, but only the paper money - not the coins.  Inflation renders them worthless.  It is a country that is only recognised as a state by Russia and no other countries.  I have been into Transdnestr - very unofficially - because like many places in the former USSR roads didn't always need to mind borders then, and Ukraine and Moldova being in the same country then - the roads cross the border sometimes when you are travelling to another city in Ukraine.  There are situations when travelling in Ukraine where you cross through Moldova also, again - unofficially - because you have to have a visa to travel to those places which is too much of a pain and too expensive when just travelling by road.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on July 05, 2010, 08:28:29 PM
You probably mean that those in control usually bother to make themselves legal according to local law. However, I was thinking of international law. By that standard, several authorities mentioned above may be in control, but not in accordance with international law. Remember the "pacta sunt servanda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacta_sunt_servanda)" rule: international law takes precedence over local law.

The issuers of the pieces of the Cocos-Keeling islands are neither de facto nor de jure in control of the islands.

Peter

So when the blurb says "Authorized by the Cocos (Keeling) Islands Shire Council", you are claiming that this is incorrect?

As for international law, who makes it, who interprets it, who enforces it, and in whose interests? It's all contextual. Look at the recent independence of Kosovo, expedited by the EU and ex-President Bush, as his way of saying, "Look, these people of a certain religion, I deal with them even-handedly!" Had there been no 9/11, Kosovo would likely still be part of Serbia, and Russia would not have invaded Georgia as a quid-pro-quo.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: Figleaf on July 05, 2010, 08:38:17 PM
The great majority of the issue of the Cocos-Keeling islands was issued by the Clunies-Ross family.

Peter
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on July 05, 2010, 08:39:34 PM
True, but the set I illustrated here was a set of modern tokens from the Noughties, not the classic infamous ones you have in mind.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: andyg on July 15, 2010, 12:54:34 AM
Seems some of the designs have been redone for 2010.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on January 16, 2012, 10:17:00 PM
Tristan da Cunha has issued a marine life collector set, dated 2011, in honour of its uninhabited island, Nightingale Island. Remember that, though this set is an official issue from TDC, these pieces are intended for collectors only and do NOT circulate. TDC is a British overseas territory and uses British coins and banknotes only.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on November 05, 2012, 09:53:54 PM
New COLLECTOR set from Tokelau for 2012.  NOTE: this set is an official issue BUT is for collectors only. It does NOT circulate. Tokelau is a territory of New Zealand and uses New Zealand coinage and banknotes only.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on February 12, 2015, 11:28:32 PM
In the 1970s, the Franklin Mint produced a collector set for Belize. The circulation coinage of that country showed Elizabeth II on the obverse and a simple denomination on the reverse. However, the Franklin Mint collector coin set  was completely different, using the coat of arms on the obverse and pretty designs of birds on the reverse. The Royal Mint (UK) produced the circulation coinage, while the Franklin Mint produced the collector sets.

The Franklin Mint did the same thing for Guyana. Many people think the same is true of Trinidad's coins of the 1970s, but those coins (which FM designed) actually circulated, until inflation made them useless and only banknotes were used. FM also designed and minted Papua New Guinea's circulation coinage, and it later minted circulation sets for the Bahamas and Jamaica, although the Royal Mint had designed and minted them in the first place.

See also: Franklin Mint circulation pieces for Trinidad and Belize? (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,13150.0.html)
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on February 12, 2015, 11:38:19 PM
FM produced a similar set for Guyana. That country's circulation coinage had entirely different designs.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on March 08, 2015, 12:25:44 PM
(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9039.0;attach=12221;image)

The British Virgin Islands sets of the 1970s were for collectors only. BVI uses the US dollar only, so these collector coins did not circulate.

The coins were produced by the Franklin Mint. The designs were by Gilroy Roberts, who also designed the USA Kennedy half dollar.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on March 08, 2015, 12:30:11 PM
The BVI issued a final collector series in 1985, another "circulation-like" set. I do not know who designed it. Again, it was produced by the Franklin Mint.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on March 24, 2015, 02:20:25 PM
There are umpteen sets of ISIS, Andamans, British Virgin Island, Russian Territory of Arctic etc.
where who is in charge and who lives there and who mints coins, is all mixed up.

The British Virgin Islands are a British overseas territory. Britain gives these places as much sovereignty as they can take. The BVI sets were an official issue and therefore listed by Gerhard in his Katalog. The Franklin Mint, a respectable company, produced the sets. A territory's coins can be minted in various countries, of course. The sets from your other examples, Andaman Islands, etc., are definitely fantasies.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: Figleaf on March 24, 2015, 02:54:45 PM
I do not agree that the Franklin Mint is a respectable company. Its main products are hot air, untenable expectations and vague non-promises. For me, a piece produced by FM is non-circulating until otherwise proven, not the other way around.

The set you show seems to based on the US dollar, so the one and half are highly unlikely to have ever circulated. The set itself was likely to have been produced for US tourists coming off cruise-ships and paying with US coins and notes. That whittles down the question to whether FM went through the trouble to seed a million or so minor coins in circulation on the islands to give them minimum credibility. As this is an early FM set, the most likely answer is "no".

Mind the repeated use of the word "likely" in the above paragraph. Yet, I think it is a safe bet that they are tourist souvenirs only. Challenge: find a picture of a VF or worse piece of this set on the net.

Peter
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on March 24, 2015, 03:02:52 PM
I do not agree that the Franklin Mint is a respectable company. Its main products are hot air, untenable expectations and vague non-promises. For me, a piece produced by FM is non-circulating until otherwise proven, not the other way around.

Peter

The title of this topic is 'Pseudo Sets: Official "circulation-like" issues'. The whole point of it is to identify and show sets that are official but never circulated - even though they LOOK like circulation sets. Collectors can then decide to be wary of these sets, or whatever their attitude is. Since they are official sets, however, the authorities needed to find a trustworthy company. And Franklin Mint was indeed trustworthy and employed several eminent numismatic artists and sculptors. Whether or not you regard their PRODUCTS as respectable is another matter. But this topic is specifically meant to identify such products, and let readers reach their own opinion on them.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on October 21, 2015, 11:44:53 PM
(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20066.0;attach=32168;image)



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20066.0;attach=32169;image)



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20066.0;attach=32170;image)

Another "circulation-like" set from the Franklin Mint: an official Panama proof set, 1976. This design series was first produced in 1975 by the Franklin Mint. However, none of these pieces ever circulated, but because they were authorised by Panama, they are not fantasies.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: Pabitra on October 22, 2015, 03:52:17 AM
Even now, Panama uses US currency but there is a circulation set.
Those coins barely circulate but you do come across them once in a while.
They are not usable on vending machines because their physical specifications are different.

That is apart from 1/2 Balboa which is a complete mmemorative coin, issued every year, on a different theme.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: eurocoin on December 29, 2015, 10:18:22 AM
The Niue and Pitcairn sets come from the NZ mint, but who minted the Cook Islands set?

The coins have been minted at the BH Mayer Mint. SoftSky Inc. in Sheridan, Wyoming was granted permission to issue this set. All sets have been exclusively distributed by Coin Invest Trust in Liechtenstein.

Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: eurocoin on December 29, 2015, 10:27:46 AM
In 2013 the Central Bank of Somalia gave The Commonwealth Mint permission to issue a series of "circulation-like" coins. The denominations of these coins are 5,10,20,50 and 100 shillings.
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: eurocoin on June 09, 2017, 09:51:11 PM
In 2017, a new circulation-like series of coins was issued for Tokelau. Their previous series that was introduced in 2012 can be seen here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,26788.msg125209.html#msg125209). The highest denomination in the previous set was 20 cents so they have now extended that. Furthermore the designers initials IRB of Ian Rank-Broadley were added to the portrait on the obverse.

Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: onecenter on June 09, 2017, 10:45:56 PM
Too bad the Tokelauan coins do not circulate.  They are very nice designs!
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: MORGENSTERNN on February 04, 2018, 12:02:58 PM
Transdnestr currency actually does circulate there, but only the paper money - not the coins.  Inflation renders them worthless.

Does those coins circulate at the beginning ?
Even if most of coins available are UNC, you can found sometimes coins with sign of wearing like this one https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Moldova-Transnistria-10-Kopeek-2000-Pridnestrovian-Moldavian-Republic/222409888072?hash=item33c8a99148:g:f60AAOSwWxNYo3j8 (https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Moldova-Transnistria-10-Kopeek-2000-Pridnestrovian-Moldavian-Republic/222409888072?hash=item33c8a99148:g:f60AAOSwWxNYo3j8)
Thank you
Title: Re: Official "circulation-like" sets
Post by: <k> on February 04, 2018, 01:43:02 PM
Does those coins circulate at the beginning ?

To know that, you'd have to know the mintage figures, but I can't find them. It's difficult to find information about such tiny countries - and Transnistria (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,19613.msg132639.html#msg132639) isn't even recognised, internationally.

On Tristan da Cunha, some collector coins circulate (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,34682.msg218843.html#msg218843). They are introduced into circulation by tourist visitors to the tiny island, who buy them at the post office.