World of Coins

Medieval and cash coins => Islamic world => Topic started by: capnbirdseye on December 16, 2013, 09:45:28 PM

Title: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: capnbirdseye on December 16, 2013, 09:45:28 PM
Khwarezm Shahs ,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah,(1200-1220 AD) Jital, Ghazna mint
got this in a mixed lot, quite well struck & apparently made of Bronze rather than Billon
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhhamed Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint
Post by: THCoins on December 16, 2013, 10:29:19 PM
Nice color and calligraphy !
(considering its age, might also be put in ancients, islamic world ?)
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint
Post by: capnbirdseye on December 16, 2013, 11:48:28 PM
Nice color and calligraphy !
(considering its age, might also be put in ancients, islamic world ?)

I moved it as suggested, I don't have any books covering this Khwarezm Shahs but spotted an identical coin on a website
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint
Post by: THCoins on December 17, 2013, 11:19:18 AM
I believe it is included in Tye, #283.
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint
Post by: capnbirdseye on January 20, 2015, 03:56:36 PM
Another nice one turned up, note the ornament in the nun of 'bin' & also another symbol to the left which seems unusual
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint
Post by: THCoins on January 27, 2015, 12:15:25 PM
Nice variation. I do believe a creative die-sinker prettied-up the coin a bit. Looking in the Tye book at type #283 he just connected some dots which were normally already present to make it look like a flower.
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: capnbirdseye on November 23, 2018, 08:50:42 PM
revisiting an old thread,  I think this is another ?  very crude by comparison but it appears to have the same legends and this is the nearest I could find to identify it
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: THCoins on November 24, 2018, 11:00:43 AM
Agree, it comes closeds to Tye#283. However, i do not think this is a regular minted variant of this type. As you say it looks crude.
Firstly, the style of the lettering is a bit different. Secontly, and i think more importantly, Tye#283 has a beaded border connected by a line. On yours is a irregular beaded border without line. One might argue that this than is just a later variant from the same mint. However, if i try to find the closest relative of Tye#283 i'd pick Tye#314, issued under Ala-ud-din's son Jalal-al-din Mangubarni. That's the first coin below. Both the text and the layout of this are similar to Tye#283. It also has the beaded border. Interestingly, Tye#283 is attributed to Ghazna while Tye#314 is attributed to Kurraman mint. The attribution of Tye#314 to Kurraman seems quite likely. This because Tye#314 seems closely coupled to Tye#330, issued during the rule of Chingis Khan. Tye#330 also has the beaded line border and the mintname "Kurraman" is written on the coin.
Though probably not specific, i'd say that the beaded line border is a quite distinct marker for Kurraman mint. So much that i'd suggest Kurraman as an alternative mint for Tye#283 instead of Ghazna. Another example of the link between Kurraman and the beaded border is for example Tye#291, the second coin shown below.
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: capnbirdseye on November 24, 2018, 11:11:05 AM
I'm confused now,  :D  I can't much of a similarity in the legend with T314, my coin reads as Muhammad, does that not tie it to Ala ud din?
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: THCoins on November 24, 2018, 11:15:19 AM
Possibly because on the last specimen you showed you switched obverse and reverse relative to the ones you posted previously ?
Muhammad certainly links it to Ala-ud-din. But as he was succeeded by Mangubarni i went looking for a possible successor coin under his name.
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: capnbirdseye on November 24, 2018, 11:17:39 AM
Possibly because on the last specimen you showed you switched obverse and reverse relative to the ones you posted previously ?

Yes, that's me not taking care of the order I drag the photo's to join together
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: THCoins on November 24, 2018, 11:32:07 AM
Another reason to suspect your last coin is a later production is the decoration above the "Abu l'Fath" textline ? Similar space filler shapes are seen on later Mongol coinage also.
Below for example Tye#332.
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: capnbirdseye on November 24, 2018, 11:52:06 AM
Yes, i spotted that same ornament on an earlier piece T157   under the Ghorids which also bears a crude rendering of Muhammad
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: Treverer on April 18, 2020, 05:21:53 PM
Hi Vic, regarding your first post of the Tye#283 I've got a nearly identical coin. Also mine seems to be more likely Bronze than Billon.
Title: Re: Khwarezm Shahs,Ala ud-din Muhammad Khwarezmshah, Jital, Ghazna mint (Tye#283)
Post by: capnbirdseye on April 18, 2020, 06:13:14 PM
Hi Vic, regarding your first post of the Tye#283 I've got a nearly identical coin. Also mine seems to be more likely Bronze than Billon.


I would guess that they are Billon but the silver content is almost non existent