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Other tokens and medals => Transportation tokens => Ferry, toll road and bridge tokens. => Topic started by: Figleaf on July 22, 2012, 02:24:46 AM

Title: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: Figleaf on July 22, 2012, 02:24:46 AM
Good looking, precisely struck token with nice details and modernistic cypher. Intuition claims it's German, brain says it could be anything. Brassy bronze, 3.0 grams, 1.9 mm. At that size, my best guess is coffee machine token.

Peter
Title: Re: KF's building
Post by: malj1 on October 17, 2012, 07:33:06 AM
For the use of the hotel's panoramic elevator Gondolen Stockholm. a restaurant perched 33 metres above the water.

(http://www.tunliweb.no/photogallery/photo00000986/c1.jpg)

Between heaven and sea, with a breathtaking view over Lake Mälaren and the Saltsjön, floats Gondolen.

 (http://www.simplystockholm.org/Sstock/wp-content/uploads/stockholm-gondolen.jpg)

Gondolen . The restaurant features a large dining room with classy Swedish, and international, cuisine, and has a very popular cocktail lounge.
By far, this is Stockholm’s most spectacular views because it is suspended high above the entrance of Stockholm’s port. Address: Stadsgården 6 10465 Stockholm
Title: Re: KF's building
Post by: Figleaf on October 17, 2012, 12:12:32 PM
Thank you, Malcolm. No doubt you found it and next time in Stockholm, this is on my list of places to visit :). Any idea what the KF logo might refer to?

Peter
Title: Re: KF's building
Post by: FosseWay on October 17, 2012, 12:59:04 PM
KF refers to det Kooperativa Förbundet, whose architectural office designed the building to which the restaurant is attached, known as KF-huset.

The complex was built at the same time as and in connection with Katarinahissen, the lift pictured. I wonder whether the token is a fare for the lift?

More (in Swedish) on Katarinahissen: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katarinahissen

And KF-huset: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/KF-huset
Title: Re: KF's building
Post by: Figleaf on October 17, 2012, 07:47:07 PM
Super, FosseWay. Thank you.

Peter
Title: Re: KF's building
Post by: malj1 on October 17, 2012, 11:02:09 PM
Managed to read that Wikipedia page in English, here is the first paragraph..

KF-house is an office complex at Stadsgården 2-12 in the Södermalm district of Stockholm . The buildings built as offices for the Cooperative Association in several stages. 1909-1912 by architect Gustaf Wickman , 1934-1936 by architects Eskil Sundahl , and Olaf Thunström and 1972-1974 by architect January Lunding . The facility also includes Katarinahissen built simultaneously with the office building from 1936.

Much older than I expected.
Title: Re: KF's building
Post by: Kushi on November 05, 2012, 10:00:10 AM
Yes, this token was for paying the fare on the Katarina Hiss lift in Stockholm. Apparently out of use. Wikipedia says "Katarinahissen is a now disused public person lift at Slussen on Södermalm in Stockholm . The facility connects Katarinavägen at Slussen with Mosebacke Square . Current elevator inaugurated the 1936th The lift is closed since 2010 because of lack of reliability and construction."

Smith and Smith (1990) catalogue number Sweden 820 IR. There is also a much scarcer example with a coffee bean on the reverse, instead of the KF, Sweden 820 IS.
Title: Re: KF's building
Post by: malj1 on November 05, 2012, 10:47:35 AM
That is very interesting, it did not occur to me to look in that catalogue.
Title: Re: KF's building
Post by: FosseWay on April 01, 2014, 09:11:29 PM
Here is the scarcer example that Kushi mentions, with the coffee bean. Bought a random lot of machine tokens a few weeks ago and it contained not one but two of these!

The text says "Cirkelkaffe is the high point". Cirkelkaffe was a popular brand of coffee in the 1950s, and was later subsumed into the Gevalia brand. It is a play on words: not only will coffee made with just that brand clearly be the high point of your day, but also you can enjoy it in the panoramic café at the top of the building...
Title: Re: KF's building
Post by: FosseWay on April 01, 2014, 09:18:18 PM
By coincidence, I spotted this article in the Metro the other day, which says that Katarinahissen will be renovated and will reopen in 2019, having been closed for decades.

Moderator's note: apologies for acting ultra vires on someone else's board, but I was adding stuff to this thread and felt it really ought to be in the Transportation section.  :)
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on October 07, 2015, 06:55:27 AM
I now have one of the latter; KF, Sweden 820 IS. received today in a job lot.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: redwine on December 08, 2016, 11:24:43 AM
Here's another different example  8)
18.5mm
3.13g
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 08, 2016, 11:12:04 PM
Here are my two, the first is a little scruffy, both 18.6mm and 3g.

Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: Figleaf on December 08, 2016, 11:30:00 PM
It looks like the common one comes in bronze as well as in brass?

Peter
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 08, 2016, 11:34:35 PM
Yes it seems so if yours is indeed bronze as they often seem to have discoloured quickly.

BTW can you measure it again? evidently wrong at present.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: Figleaf on December 08, 2016, 11:44:19 PM
Sorry. It was stolen. However, I do remember it as bronze or bronze clad, not brass.

Peter
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 08, 2016, 11:57:15 PM
Sorry I should have realised it was gone.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: redwine on December 09, 2016, 05:05:45 AM
Mine has a different serif on the middle stroke of the F  8)
And some different spacing
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 09, 2016, 06:38:52 AM
My piece in hand looks the same but unfortunately doesn't show well in a scan.

Here is my piece on yours where some difference can be seen.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: redwine on December 09, 2016, 09:11:32 AM
So it appears there are at least 3 varieties of this piece  ;D
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: FosseWay on December 09, 2016, 06:24:50 PM
I'm sure there will be die variants of this - it was issued in large numbers. I'm less convinced that there is a definitively bronze version alongside the brass and wonder whether it's just wear/toning and/or minor variations in the alloy.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: redwine on December 09, 2016, 08:47:55 PM
I give up
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 09, 2016, 09:01:29 PM
I found another for sale on Delcampe, this too is in brass.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 09, 2016, 09:12:58 PM
I just photographed mine
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: FosseWay on December 09, 2016, 10:24:27 PM
Here are 12 of these that I found lying around. I've been staring at them for a good 20 minutes and can't really put my finger on anything that is definably different between them, except that the one at bottom right may be in a slightly different alloy as Malcolm mentioned earlier (it looks more coppery).
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 09, 2016, 11:50:26 PM
We were looking at the serif on the middle bar of the F the bottom part of which appears to be a different but I am beginning to think its a trick of the lighting as in hand they all look the same; see your bottom row, 1, 3, and 4.

Can you do a little scrape on the edge of the last coppery looking one?


Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: redwine on December 10, 2016, 05:38:31 AM
Yes, 1,3 & 4.
And look at row 2 number 2 & row 1, 4 - the top stroke of the F is nearer to the edge than the others.
Was this lift really that popular that it had to have die variants? How long was it in operation for? [1883-2010]  I should have checked this  :-[
OK, next time I'll look into the history in a bit more detail :'(
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 10, 2016, 06:51:30 AM
Yes row 2 number 2 especially is touching the outer circle.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 10, 2016, 07:15:43 AM
From Smith

In 1932 both the old Katarina Hiss (elevator) and the foot bridge were torn down.

ln 1935 the new Katarina Hiss (elevator) and the bridge were opened and until 1953 only paper tickets were used.)

(Elevator, bridge, and building of the Kooperativa Foreningen)
IR o B 19 Sd K F (used from 1953 to 1958)   
IS o B 19 Sd (Cirkelkaffe ar Hojdpunkten)(Coffee-bean)
   (IS was only used for a few months)
   (since 1958 only KF paper tickets have been used.)

...so only in use for five years.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: FosseWay on December 10, 2016, 10:17:22 AM
I've numbered them so we can be sure which ones we're talking about  ;)

Now redwine and Malcolm mention it, I can see the clear difference in 4 and 6 on the distance to the rim from the tip of the F. I'm still not seeing differences in the serifs though.

However, I do see a new variant in 4 and 6 which on the scan I thought was just a trick of the light but it's clear in hand, under a lens, as well. On all the others, the upper arm of the K disappears "behind" the upright of the F without losing definition - it just carries on till it hits the F. On 4 and 6, the K-bar becomes less distinct a few tenths of a millimetre before it hits the F, giving more of an impression of going behind it.

On the "bronze" one - the underlying metal appears to be yellowish rather than reddish, but I'm not certain whether this indicates plating or just that the alloy oxidises to a redder than normal state because of a slightly different composition.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: FosseWay on December 10, 2016, 10:29:44 AM
There's not much literature available online about the lift at the time these tokens were used. In my searches I did discover this in Svenska Numismatiska Tidskriften (http://numismatik.se/pdf/snt72010.pdf) (issue 7, 2010), which explains that in the early days, the fare for travelling up was greater than for down (1883-1905: 4 öre up, 2 öre down; 1905- unknown date: 5 öre up, 3 öre down). In passing it also mentions that the fare "today" (i.e. 2010) is 10 kronor in either direction. This must have been written just before the lift was taken out of service.

The quoted letter in the middle of the article is from an annoyed passenger who was denied passage in the lift when he wanted to pay with a 5 öre token to go down and two 3 öre tokens to go up.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 10, 2016, 11:22:03 AM
I managed to read the article with help from Google translate.

.....Perhaps became the female "Elevator Boy" just a little bit cross....

And saved the images of the first two tokens 4 and 2 öre from 1883 for the earlier elevator. = 820 1A and 1B respectively

The Smith's mention:
The Mosebacke Gangbro was a foot bridge connecting the top platform of the old Katarina Hiss (elevator) and a point on a hill. The following tokens were valid for passage over the foot bridge plus the use of the elevator. ...they then go on to list several other types of token used.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: FosseWay on December 10, 2016, 12:37:33 PM
Those two are also listed in Stockholmspolletter, but the tokens that are the subject of this thread (KF and the coffee bean variant) are not covered. This is my only criticism of that book: it omits many recent tokens that are clearly available and attributable. This is something we're trying to avoid in the Gothenburg equivalent (not that there's any one-up-man-ship or anything like that  ;D).

For info, the reverse of both carries Sporrong's stamp. There is also a variant of the 2 öre with a hole at the top (obliterating the last S of STOCKHOLMS and the first S of STADS) and a four-digit number punched into the reverse.

There also exist a number of tokens for Mosebacke Gångbro, the bridge connecting the top of the lift with the mountain. I'm unclear of the precise relationship between these tokens and their issuers; logic suggests that the MG tokens were valid for both the bridge and the lift, as there's little point using the former if you aren't going to travel in the latter, but then the question arises of what the Stads Hiss tokens were for.

The Mosebacke tokens are all for 3 öre except a much smaller, triangular 5 öre. (Was going to post them but I think I will start a new topic.)
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 10, 2016, 12:55:04 PM
Quote
This is my only criticism of that book: it omits many recent tokens that are clearly available and attributable.

That is inexcusable as far as these two KF tokens are concerned seeing that they were in use from 1953 to 1958 - now over fifty years ago. The first of these at least is common.
Title: Re: Katarinahissen lift tokens, Stockholm (KF)
Post by: malj1 on December 10, 2016, 10:57:21 PM
See also:

 Sweden: Mosebacke Gångbro, Stockholm (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,37375.msg235699.html#msg235699)