World of Coins

Modern European coins except the euro => UK and Ireland => British Crown Dependencies => Topic started by: paisepagal on April 27, 2012, 07:42:21 PM

Title: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: paisepagal on April 27, 2012, 07:42:21 PM
What are those two  marks to the top right of the 50 ?
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: <k> on April 27, 2012, 07:49:43 PM
What are those two  marks to the top right of the 50 ?

A mintmark. The Pobjoy Mint issues coins with different mintmarks, such as AA, AB, etc., in an attempt to make them more collectable.
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: andyg on April 27, 2012, 07:58:59 PM
A mintmark. The Pobjoy Mint issues coins with different mintmarks, such as AA, AB, etc., in an attempt to make them more collectable.

Pobjoy claim they are for security reasons - however they won't release details about what exactly due to the aforementioned "Security"
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: andyg on April 28, 2012, 12:24:32 PM
Income security. :D

Some Victorian coins had die numbers. The invention didn't catch on until Pobjoy. Still, it's interesting for collectors to compare mintage and different die letters, to get an impression of the life cycle of a modern die.

If we knew more about die longevity, coins could become an instrument for estimating money supply in the distant past. That would open up new avenues to understand historical events.

Peter

There is a problem - we know that there are more than one die with the same letters!

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5611.0;attach=7767;image)

A _A on the left coin, AA on the right - so two different dies....

edit - I should add that both are dated 1995....
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: Gerhard Schön on April 28, 2012, 02:53:36 PM
Pobjoy claim they are for security reasons, however they won't release details.

These are not die letters but the production batch code. Uncirculated base metal coins get "AA", "AB", "AC", etc. Base metal proof will be "BB", "BC", etc. Platinum proof gets "B", gold proof has "C", while "D" and "E" are for silver proof, and "F" means silver BU, so one can easily distinguish the different materials and finishes even if their colour is similar and the gross weight is the same.
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: andyg on April 28, 2012, 03:07:39 PM
Thanks Gerhard,

One of the forum members Spabreda compiled this list of known types -
http://www.spabreda.nl/IOMcoins.html (http://www.spabreda.nl/IOMcoins.html)
That information would clear up a lot of the mysteries we had.
I wonder if the codes are sometimes not used strictly as above - the Christmas 50p 2001 to 2004 for example have B codes but are not base metal proofs....
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: Gerhard Schön on April 28, 2012, 10:53:19 PM
I wonder if the codes are sometimes not used strictly as above - the Christmas 50p 2001 to 2004 for example have B codes but are not base metal proofs.

You are surely referring to the "BA" code which I have not included above on purpose. This was introduced in 1988 for circulation quality base metal coins produced for collectors. There are many more codes with special meanings such as "CC", "CD", "CE", as well as "DD", "DE", and finally "CB". Note that the bullion sovereigns, angels and nobles use their own "A", "B", "C", "D", "E", "X" series.
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: andyg on April 28, 2012, 11:09:28 PM
They have 'BB' - some of the later Christmas 50p have no codes.
Any chance of a full list of what they all mean?
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: Gerhard Schön on April 28, 2012, 11:37:32 PM
The "BB" in fact should be base metal Proof (Diamond Finish).
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: andyg on April 28, 2012, 11:55:39 PM
here is a suspect 'BB' from 2000.
"diamond finish" are issued in packs to best of my knowledge, usually the self contained Christmas cards - this just doesn't look good enough - and I don't think there are versions with AA, AB etc.
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: Gerhard Schön on May 03, 2012, 06:08:53 PM
The above coin is special in another way as well. To the left of the numeral 50, you can read "PMM" which combines the mintmark "PM" with the year date "MM" as the roman numerals of 2000.
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: FosseWay on June 12, 2012, 02:42:30 PM
I have proof examples of the halfpenny, penny, 2p, 5p, 10p and 20p from 1984 that were rather randomly in with an unrelated order of something else (i.e. they're loose coins and I don't have the rest of the set). Anyway, the 20p has the batch mark BB, which conforms to Gerhard Schön's explanation above. On the other hand, the rest don't have any batch mark. Why not?
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: hertfordian on June 12, 2012, 07:58:49 PM
Hi all -

Following on from FosseWay's comment, I can't answer that but I have a 1982 proof set of the circulation coins from the IoM with a countermark for the birth of Prince William.  What's most interesting about them is that the 5 pound coin in the set does not have the normally obligatory "PM" mintmark below the queen's head.  They all have the die mark/batch mark letters on though.

Ian
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: WayneF on May 27, 2014, 11:39:25 AM
here is a suspect 'BB' from 2000.
"diamond finish" are issued in packs to best of my knowledge, usually the self contained Christmas cards - this just doesn't look good enough - and I don't think there are versions with AA, AB etc.

Hi, I know it's been a while since this thread was active but I'm hoping someone can answer - I recently got 2 x Isle of Man Christmas 50p from 2000. The pictures online have BB but the received coins have no batch marks on them. Apologies for the poor photo:
(http://s25.postimg.cc/6ali59s1r/2000_xmas.jpg)

I've checked on various websites and cannot find any mention of these coins minted without a batch mark - has anyone else seen this before?
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: SpaBreda on May 27, 2014, 07:56:09 PM
Hello Wayne,

I have never seen any other than the BB version.
I have an BA version on my list, but never seen one before.
http://www.spabreda.nl/IOMcoins.html

One without any mark is new to me ...

But there are many surprises with these "batch"marks  ;)

Paul.
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: WayneF on May 27, 2014, 10:02:52 PM
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the response. Yours was one of the websites that I was cross referencing to find out about this one.
Both coins I received came with the cert to say Diamond finish, 30,000 blah blah and as far as I am concerned the certs are genuine.
The seller has a very successful shop on Ebay and I've bought from him before and been very happy.
It's just this piqued my curiosity when I was entering them to my list in Numista.
I know there's big money in Isle of Man Christmas coins, is there a chance they are fake? It hardly seems likely, especially seeing as everything else looks perfect including the unusual PMM mark, so why would something obvious like this get omitted? Or is it more likely they were struck with a different, unidentified die.
Here's a better picture.
(http://s25.postimg.cc/ohvtstt8f/2014_05_27_20_44_17.jpg)
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: africancoins on May 28, 2014, 12:13:36 AM
My Isle of Man 50p 2000 Christmas coin is PMM BB. My piece was purchased around the time of release and loose and as expected it was purchased without a "certificate".

I would suspect that your piece is one that was originally sold in a Christmas card - as sold by the mint. For the 1980s the "BB" (copper-nickel Diamond Finish) would (for a number of those dates) be in the card and the "AA", "AB" etc.. would be loose (made for circulation)....

Your piece will for sure be real and could be worth two pounds or a touch more.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: richard22911 on October 01, 2015, 05:00:24 PM
why nobody gets attention on 1980 mule coin? either die letters or mint marks, they are extremely debatable due to lack of more open source.

For PMM in 2000, this is great info, and thank you for the people sharing this with us.

Richard
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: richard22911 on October 01, 2015, 05:03:26 PM
here is a suspect 'BB' from 2000.
"diamond finish" are issued in packs to best of my knowledge, usually the self contained Christmas cards - this just doesn't look good enough - and I don't think there are versions with AA, AB etc.

2000 one, it has many versions. the one in the pic i would personally say it is circulating type. It is very interesting to see more different coins here. In this year, there is no any AA coins struck.
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: Mister T on October 10, 2015, 12:26:39 AM
Is there any information on these batch marks in general? Or do they only appear on Isle of Man coins?
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: FosseWay on October 10, 2015, 03:32:00 PM
They used to appear on Gibraltar coins as well.
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: richard22911 on October 10, 2015, 03:34:34 PM
both IoM & Gibraltar coinages found die letters, priority to 2004, cause coinages of gibraltar were struck by the Pobjoy mint.
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: Oklahoman on January 06, 2018, 08:33:25 PM
I realize this is an old thread.  But I was hoping to hear more about the CB combination.  Is this combination on the only die lettered crown?  Is that even a real coin is it just legend?  I have read other threads elsewhere that indicate a Tynwald crown of 1979 exists with die letters CB...
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: africancoins on January 06, 2018, 10:02:19 PM
Since I moved my website to here:-

http://africa.worldofcoins.eu/

there is no longer quite so much on it about these dieletters.

But a part of what used to be on my website, that was first there in about 1999 said...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CB, CC, CD and CE (series?)

These reportedly appear on the coins of the Millennium of Tynwald set of five crowns, these are as KM-46, 47, 48, 49 and 50. I have a set of the normal strike Copper-Nickel pieces (KM-46, 47, 48, 49 and 50) and only the KM-47 piece has dieletters, the dieletter pair is "CB". The Silver Proof set of these I have seen (these are KM-46a, 47a, 48a, 49a and 50a) and all of these were without dieletters. No other crowns are known with dieletters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So my KM-47 must be "CB" - per my writing.

Looking on google/ebay I could see a few pieces of KM-47 without dieletters and a few with them. Only on one piece were the dieletters easy to see.

Here - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251357941800  (use the magnified view) - and this would seem to be "CE".

Then here is a piece of KM-47 clearly without the dieletters

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152024848964

I saw no sign of dieletters on pieces seen in images of the pieces in the rest of this 1979 set.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: Batch Marks (was die letters) on IoM decimal coins
Post by: Oklahoman on January 15, 2018, 02:27:55 AM
I have seen the CA as well.