World of Coins

Other tokens and medals => Transportation tokens => Topic started by: africancoins on December 29, 2010, 11:18:56 PM

Title: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: africancoins on December 29, 2010, 11:18:56 PM
The first "NATIONAL TRANSPORT TOKEN" pieces were issued in 1973. I would reckon the 2 latest pieces shown by figleaf will be from the 1970's - I have had mine (think I have both) for a long time.

The earliest British transport tokens must be those older (must be Victorian) oval ones usually with a horse drawn carriage depicted along with legends detailing denomination (several pence), issuer name, town/city and the word "OMNIBUS".

The transit tokens in "early" plastics such as celluloid go back to the 1920's (perhaps a little earlier) and they are usually of the general style of the Johannesburg transit token shown at...

http://www.wbcc.fsnet.co.uk/aftsou4.htm

Somehow there are areas of the country that are yet to get onto the idea of the "National Transport Tokens" - earlier this year I got a piece that at the time I described as follows:-

British Transport Token - Central “50p” with “WOKINGHAM DISTRICT COUNCIL” above-around // two lines centrally “EXPIRES” / “31-03-09” with “CONCESSIONARY FARES TOKEN” above-around. White plastic, same shape and slightly smaller than current G.B. 50 Pence coin (25mm).

Likely that local authority will soon issue tokens that expire at the end of March 2012. But how can such a system be easier/cheaper than the "National Transport Tokens" system ?

From current use - it would seem that there are very few metallic British transport tokens other than the National Transport Tokens.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on December 29, 2010, 11:53:26 PM
British Transport Token - Central “50p” with “WOKINGHAM DISTRICT COUNCIL” above-around // two lines centrally “EXPIRES” / “31-03-09” with “CONCESSIONARY FARES TOKEN” above-around. White plastic, same shape and slightly smaller than current G.B. 50 Pence coin (25mm).

Stafford borough issued plastic tokens upto the introduction of the new national free bus pass scheme, which, thinking about it, would have been early 2007.  I had thought that the district tokens would have ceased at this point but as ever there is exception to the rule.  Wokingham (http://www.wokingham.gov.uk/transport/publictransport/elderly-disabled-transport/travel-tokens-over-70s/) even now offer their own tokens instead of a national bus pass - but they have restrictions, if you have ever had a national bus pass you cannot switch to the tokens.
One wonders with the impending cuts (around 25 to 40%) to the UK concessionary fares budget how much longer these small local authorities will continue to go their own way.  The give away that Peter's aluminium tokens are from the 70's is the decimal 'p' and the value, with an average fare of around £1.55 one would need 78 two pence tokens each time you bought a ticket.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 02:11:17 AM
From current use - it would seem that there are very few metallic British transport tokens other than the National Transport Tokens.

Here is one, a brass token from Darlington, coming in at 1.9 grams, 16.6-17.0 mm. The crown was added to the arms in 1974.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: humpybong on April 26, 2011, 12:13:15 PM


Ooooooh I like that...I collect transport token and have a strong collection of ferry tokens and passes from Australia.

Also have a few UK and USA transport (bus, train and tram) tokens.

 :)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 12:31:23 PM
OK, I'll add some plastic tokens to this thread. There is a thread on US transportation tokens here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,6151.0.html) and an Australian transportation token here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9274.msg64239.html#msg64239). It would be good if you could open a thread on Australian tokens or add to these threads if possible.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 01:16:55 PM
Nottingham's rates look incredibly low to me. The lowest I remember paying for a bus ride to school was 25 cent. At the time there were about ƒ8 to the pound, so I paid 1/32th pound or 7-1/2 penny, while a Nottingham pupil could do the same for a halfpenny.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 02:49:19 PM
Here is a nice series from Newcastle. The colours are brighter in reality, but in this way, the lettering is more legible. All tokens have the coat of arms. Note the placement of the dot and the D on the value side. Diameters vary between 21.8 and 22.6 mm.

Added halfpenny red and pennies blue and pale orange. The blue penny in two varieties is interesting. I wonder why Newcastle needed different colour pennies. Perhaps it was a way to stop reimbursement of old tokens?
Added yet another penny, this one in air force blue, plus a neat 7 pence. The higher values are more difficult to find.
Added three halfpence baby blue, 3 pence with a low D, small dot penny and two sad grey three halfpence that seem to be made from different material and are of different size.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 03:11:37 PM
Here is Accrington's contribution to my happiness. You are looking at a 22.1 mm token.

Fourpence and tuppence added. Arms added. The ship-like object in the second horizontal band from above is a weaving shuttle. The device below that is a textile printing cylinder printing a piece of calico (paisley pattern).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 04:37:27 PM
Kingston-upon Hull issued a black token my scanner couldn't handle. It has the coat of arms in the centre (see below) with "Kingston-upon Hull" above an "city transport" below. The reverse says "10p". Diameter is 25.2 mm.

Peter

I have added the 20p, which has a more merciful colour.
Added 5 p blue
Added 2 p orange and 3 p yellow
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 04:56:56 PM
East Lindsey is part of Lincolnshire. This toke is 25.3 mm.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 06:49:26 PM
I had never heard of Southport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southport). It's not in the South, but it has public transportation, hence this 22.3 mm token. Decimal tokens of Southport are here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg180234.html#msg180234)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on April 26, 2011, 09:31:32 PM
I had thought that the district tokens would have ceased at this point but as ever there is exception to the rule.  Wokingham (http://www.wokingham.gov.uk/transport/publictransport/elderly-disabled-transport/travel-tokens-over-70s/) even now offer their own tokens instead of a national bus pass -

and not any more. since the new concessionary travel scheme from 1/4/2011 is administered by counties rather than districts (think mid tier government rather than bottom tier) these small local schemes have ended.  I'd be very surprised to find any county issuing their own tokens at the moment, just the national travel tokens.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: africancoins on April 26, 2011, 10:01:20 PM
I have a Wokingham one from not too long ago... description...

British Transport Token - Central “50p” with “WOKINGHAM DISTRICT COUNCIL” above-around // two lines centrally “EXPIRES” / “31-03-09” with “CONCESSIONARY FARES TOKEN” above-around. White plastic, same shape and slightly smaller than current G.B. 50 Pence coin (25mm).

The Newcastle group shown earlier in this topic is typical of the small range of tokens for many other areas.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 10:23:32 PM
Unless someone tells me I'm dead wrong, I'll continue to believe that GCT stands for Glasgow Corporation Transport, though it could conceivable stand for Glasgow Corporation Tramways. I was dead wrong. GCT means Grimsby-Cleethorpes Transport. See next post. The token is 22.6 mm.

Added a fourpence and an 18 pence that is the same on both sides.
Added a white return to Immingham; JSCS: John Sutcliffe & Co. Stevedores.
Added a blue return to Immingham; BTDB: British Transport Docks Board. Like the white return, it looks like a grey token painted.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: africancoins on April 26, 2011, 10:39:57 PM
This "G.C.T." token was issued by "Grimsby Cleethorpes Transport" - introduced 1956. Source: the catalogue by Smith mentioned earlier.

Tokens of "Glasgow Croporation Tramways" were followed by those of "Glasgow Croporation Transport" - a similar thing is seen for many other town/cities.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 10:47:04 PM
Thank you Paul. Very helpful.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on April 26, 2011, 10:56:12 PM
tsk, two GCT  :-\
but you're right the Glasgow tokens have the Glasgow coat of arms on.
I'd never heard of Grimsby-Cleethorpes Transport.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on April 26, 2011, 11:00:28 PM
Tokens of "Glasgow Croporation Tramways" were followed by those of "Glasgow Croporation Transport" - a similar thing is seen for many other town/cities.

Yes, the tramways were either damaged in the war or needed much investment to the infrastructure.  So the municipal companies switched to funding buses instead.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2011, 11:06:56 PM
Wikipedia mentions that Glasgow's tramway network was once the largest in the UK and the last to be converted to (trolley)bus (1962). The irony is of course that tramways are now rediscovered, though hardly comparable, with traffic-free track, priority at level crossings and traffic lights and much faster cars. They are bridging the gap between suburban light railways and slow and smelly busses.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on April 26, 2011, 11:14:52 PM
OT - but at one time my village had a tram, to take passengers to the local town 6 miles away.
The Burton & Ashby light railway, quite unusual as it was privately operated - it closed in 1929 having operated for just over 20 years, nothing much survives, a few drain covers and maybe two poles.  The last remaining tram is in Detroit USA - sadly in storage since their "heritage line" closed in 2006.

http://www.burton-on-trent.org.uk/?cat=84 (http://www.burton-on-trent.org.uk/?cat=84)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on June 27, 2011, 05:59:12 PM
The Newcastle group shown earlier in this topic is typical of the small range of tokens for many other areas.

Quite so, Paul. Here is a comparable group from Barrow-in-Furness that arrived today. All are around 25 mm. I have sympathy for the utilitarian approach that grumbles respect for taxpayer's money.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on June 27, 2011, 09:19:12 PM
Here are more tokens (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23322.msg64453.html#msg64453) from the Nottingham series. New tokens added. They are:
The postbox red GPO piece is a source of great fun.

Added another batch: 3 pence blue PUPIL, 5 pence black and 6 pence green. Those ovals are cute.

Nottingham's complicated multiple tier tariff (normal, concessionary, employee, pupil) must have been a headache for the drivers and conductors.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: africancoins on June 27, 2011, 09:20:27 PM
A modern metallic British piece appeared on Ebay the other day - one I had not heard of before. Likely from some time in the past 20 years. The reverse shows a stock design of "Magi Coniature" - token make.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260807207793

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on June 27, 2011, 09:37:23 PM
Saving the picture before it is deleted.

I guess WM stands for West Midlands...

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on June 27, 2011, 09:41:32 PM
These two tokens are a good counterpoint. North Midlands is a known quantity on the net, but the transport pool seems to have died before the internet. The penny is 26 mm, the 3d and 6d 27 mm.

Peter

Edit: 6d added.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 26, 2011, 03:08:59 AM
A very nice addition: Manchester. The text on the ribbon is CONCILIO ET LABORE. The colour difference between obverse and reverse is real.

Peter

Added 1½ pence black, 2 pence green and 3 pence orange added. All 22 mm.
Added 2 penny varieties: 1 (12 mm high) aligned on N/S axis and whole denomination aligned on N/S axis, 1 is 10 mm high.
Added ½ penny grey and an intermediate variety of the penny: whole denomination aligned on N/S axis, 1 is 12 mm high.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 26, 2011, 03:12:02 AM
And another (I am spoilt). Saint Helens is an industrial town in Merseyside. The text on the ribbon is EX TERRA LUCEM (light from the earth.)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 13, 2011, 11:10:54 AM
Here's a metallic piece from Sunderland: 22.0 mm, 3.4 grammes, brassy-looking. The Cog reminded me of the arms of another city...

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 13, 2011, 11:30:50 AM
And one from Belfast @ 6.9 grammes and 22.6 mm. I wonder what the S stands for...

The text on the ribbon is "pro tanto quid retribuamus" - what shall we pay in return for so much. This may not refer to the Belfast public transportation system. ;)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 13, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
Going back to Sunderland for a moment here is another with reverse 1 Journey and another for the ferry.

Edited to say the 1 Journey has the same obverse as previous 1 Token.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 13, 2011, 11:59:38 AM
Here we have an unmistakeable shape for the Vision impaired from Bristol tramways and Carriage Co. 35mm x 23mm black fibre.

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 13, 2011, 12:04:31 PM
here is another with reverse 1 Journey

That coat of arms belongs to the county borough of Sunderland. Says Wikipedia: Sunderland was created a municipal borough of County Durham in 1835. Under the Local Government Act 1888, it was given further status as a county borough with independence from county council control. In 1974, under the Local Government Act 1972, the county borough was abolished and its area combined with that of other districts to form the Metropolitan Borough of Sunderland in Tyne and Wear.

Look at the central device in the upper band of the shield: there's the cogship.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on November 13, 2011, 12:05:00 PM
Saving the picture before it is deleted.

I guess WM stands for West Midlands...

Peter

Delayed reaction, sorry. Yes, that's definitely West Midlands. That linked WM was the logo used on the bus tickets when I was a lad getting the bus to school in the West Midlands (1980s).
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on November 13, 2011, 12:07:42 PM
North Midlands is a known quantity on the net, but the transport pool seems to have died before the internet.

It may have been part of Midland Red, which covered (covers?) a huge area of the English Midlands and was therefore divided into regions, much as the post-1948 nationalised railway was. The buses all carried the same general livery but stated which region they belonged to. Andyg may be able to be more specific.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on November 13, 2011, 12:10:31 PM
And one from Belfast @ 6.9 grammes and 22.6 mm. I wonder what the S stands for...

The text on the ribbon is "pro tanto quid retribuamus" - what shall we pay in return for so much. This may not refer to the Belfast public transportation system. ;)

Peter

It's the city's motto. It also appears on the edge of the Belfast £1 in the City series (http://www.royalmint.com/focus/belfast_coin.aspx).

On the S -- it could mean 'school' -- i.e. it's a discount token for use by kids travelling to school.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 13, 2011, 12:18:22 PM
Another Belfast with a change of shape - 11 sided.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on November 13, 2011, 12:19:26 PM
I'd not come across the North Midland transport pool until I found those - don't know a lot about them.

The Belfast 'S' could be Single Journey (one trip), they exist with 'M' too - which could be Multi journey,
but according to this website (http://www.irish-tokens.co.uk/transport%20all%20thumbs.htm#bcpmetal) tokens with M were for child use......
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 13, 2011, 12:28:32 PM
Further down that page it says might be Minor and Senior.

Here is another for the Belfast Tramways.

Added a halfpenny hard pink (impossible to get it right from the scanner) and a black threepence. Figleaf.
Added a fivepence not in the tramways series. Figleaf
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 15, 2012, 05:56:52 PM
This collection is still growing and getting better. This token is from a series of 1-1/2 (orange), 2-1/2 (dark blue), 3 (brown), 3 (bue-grey) and 3-1/2 (red) pence. The council was wise enough to use the arms without the supporters and helmet, making the design distinguished, rather than busy.

Added: penny and tuppence.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 15, 2012, 06:10:56 PM
Edinburgh's included supporters. Compare the split in the lady's dress >:D The motto NISI DOMINUS FRUSTRA means without god, we labour in vain (Psalm 127)

Added a penny (white), 1-1/2 pence (dark blue), 2 pence (red) and 4 pence (blue)
Added a sixpence brown

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 15, 2012, 06:28:47 PM
The H-shaped hole reminds me of an axis and wheels. I have observed broad gauge (pictured) and narrow gauge.

Peter

Added a 20p with H cutout.
Added a 5p blue. It takes a while to figure out the 2 arrows logo...
Added a 10p red.
Added a 50p yellow with expiration date 1979.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on March 15, 2012, 07:47:30 PM
The motto NISI DOMINUS FRUSTRA means without god, we labour in vain (Psalm 127)

Don't you love it when organisations selectively pick almost random words out of 'meaningful' texts to use as mottos. Unless you know that the whole quote is 'nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem, frustra vigilat qui custodit eam' (hope I've got that right from memory), Edinburgh's motto is meaningless, even if you know Latin: those three words actually mean 'unless lord in vain'. (The full translation is 'unless the Lord guards the city, he who guards it does so in vain'.)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 16, 2012, 11:53:15 PM
And one from Belfast @ 6.9 grammes and 22.6 mm. I wonder what the S stands for...

The text on the ribbon is "pro tanto quid retribuamus" - what shall we pay in return for so much. This may not refer to the Belfast public transportation system. ;)

Peter

I spotted these on eBay last night. TRANSPORT TOKENS BELFAST TRANSPORT M, S, four varieties VF (A122) CUPRO NICKEL, round 22mm, 23mm; multi sided 24mm, 28mm.

Seller remarks... "In my experience the M 28mm is extremely scarce."

See above where we have the suggestion ...might be Minor and Senior.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 19, 2012, 09:52:03 AM
A as in adult, or A as in the first letter of the alfabet? Value as advertised seems particularly unhelpful for visitors of the region and a great way to hedge against local inflation for the locals, but it does save the cost of making new tokens when the tariff changes.

10 p green plastic added.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 19, 2012, 11:28:27 AM
A as in adult, or A as in the first letter of the alfabet? Value as advertised seems particularly unhelpful for visitors of the region and a great way to hedge against local inflation for the locals, but it does save the cost of making new tokens when the tariff changes.

Peter

The antonym adolescent came to mind, ;D but I found a very brief mention of a Zone C - a very old eBay listing: "3 x different bus passes Lothian Region Transport Zone C"; so it possible we have three zones namely A, B and C.

In 1975, after the local government reorganisation, Edinburgh Corporation Transport was duly renamed Lothian Regional Transport. The LRT identity remained until January 2000, when the company was renamed Lothian Buses plc, the LRT logo changing to 'Lothian'. (From Wikipedia) So this gives us a maximum possible 25 year window of use for these.

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 12, 2012, 05:57:41 AM
Nottingham's rates look incredibly low to me. The lowest I remember paying for a bus ride to school was 25 cent. At the time there were about ƒ8 to the pound, so I paid 1/32th pound or 7-1/2 penny, while a Nottingham pupil could do the same for a halfpenny.

Peter

The trip to my grandmother, about 2 miles, was 1½d for a child [late 1940's] once on my return trip I had lost a ½d so had to walk halfway home....  :'(
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 12, 2012, 06:15:28 AM
A very worthy wartime issue of concessionary tokens to air raid wardens for travel while on duty is this Nottingham 1½d token marked with the initials A.R.P.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 05, 2012, 07:30:04 AM
The catalogue tells us only two values were issued although in various colours and shades.

NOTTINGHAM 560
NOTTINGHAM   CORPORATION   TRANSPORT (var. )      
AA   0   c   23   Sd   1½d   . A.R.P.   ( orange )    3.00
AB   0   C   23   Sd   1½d   . A.R.P.   (light green)   3.00
AC   0   C   23   Sd   1½d   . A.R.P.   (dark green)   3.00
AD   0   C   23   Sd   1½d   . Corporation Employee Only (yellow)   3.00
AE   0   C   23   Sd   1d.    .A.R.P   (orange) (shades) (var. )      .50
AF   0   C   23   Sd   1½d   . A.R.P .   (blue)      .50
AG   0   C   23   Sd   1½d   . A.R.P.   (dark blue)(shades )      .50
      (A.R.P. tokens   used    by Air Raid Precaution members during WWII)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 22, 2012, 02:15:39 AM
Birmingham "transport" series, orange plastic, 22 mm. Different style figures.

The arms were redesigned a few times. This version was in use 1936-1977. The legend on the ribbon is FORWARD.

Added a penny red and a three halfpence British racing green.

The Birmingham tramway tokens are here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=14711.msg174842#msg174842).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: capnbirdseye on July 22, 2012, 11:37:29 AM
Latest acquisition (thanks, andyg!): Birmingham. Dark green fiber, 1.1 grams, 2.2 mm.

The arms were redesigned a few times. This version was in use 1936-1977. The legend on the ribbon is FORWARD.

Peter

That's my local City where I was born, the arms used to be seen everywhere such as on the buses etc before they were privatised.
Vic
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: zucan on July 23, 2012, 04:53:33 AM
my father passed away last year he grew up in Glasgow in the 1930s and 40s



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5176.0;attach=25203;image)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 23, 2012, 11:45:05 AM
Welcome to WoC, zucan. My condolences with the loss of your father.

Thank you for the addition. See replies 15 to 20 for more info on the Glasgow public transportation system and its tokens.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 11, 2012, 01:27:26 AM
A hoard of 7040 x Brighton Corporation Tramways post office staff travel tokens in a lock-box is on eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/230835635694?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) at present.

Note the reverse legend... FOR USE ONLY BY POST OFFICE STAFF WHILE IN UNIFORM

Quote...
The original Brighton corporation tramways metal lockbox containing 122 rolls of travel tokens used by post office staff.
Contains 108 rolls of 60 x brass 1d tokens and 14 rolls of 40 x 1 1/2d metal tokens totalling 7040 tokens in all.
Each token is 22mm in diameter.

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 11, 2012, 01:53:29 AM
See also this thread (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=14711.msg156233#msg156233).

He wants £14 900, which amounts to slightly over £2 a piece. Sounds OK, but you'd be lucky to sell 50 of each type and you won't be able to sell them at all at £149 each. Meanwhile, your average bank would offer at least £300 to 400 annually if you'd put the money on deposit with them.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 11, 2012, 02:07:19 AM
At the bottom of the page he mentions he is looking, and hoping, for offers around £1000 which is a much more tempting price and thus bringing them down to 7p each!
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 11, 2012, 11:17:43 AM
If my assumption of a market for 50 sets is correct, the buyer would still have to sell for £10 a piece to get his money back, without any return or redemption of shipping cost. Since it will be known that the token is plentiful, that will be a hard task, but indeed, quite a bit more realistic.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 11, 2012, 11:02:32 PM
Not a very informative token. Today, NCT stands for Newport Corporation Transport, but the logo is nowhere in sight. It looks like the logo of an undertaker anyway. Brass, 2.9 gram, 21.1 mm.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: africancoins on August 11, 2012, 11:33:30 PM
The NCT token is Newport City Transport - these were first used in 1973.....

Info from the relevant Smith Catalogue.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 19, 2012, 09:21:28 PM
Glasgow! 1.0 grams, 21.3 mm, chocolate brown fiber (colour changed by increasing contrast).

Halfpenny blue-green (Glasgow Tramways) added.
2 stage bright red (Glasgow Tramways) added.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 19, 2012, 09:43:47 PM
Wallasey, series of four, about 1 gram, 25.2 mm. Wallasey is opposite Liverpool on the Mersey.

Added a green-blue penny (note the placement of the dot) and a blue tuppence. I also have a purple 1-½ pence. It may be the original colour of the 1-½ pence black (Voice calls it grey,) though.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on November 19, 2012, 10:17:31 PM
The 1990 Smith and Smith catalogue also includes a twopence dark blue token and a twopence blue token. This may be the same token with a different exposure to the elements.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 19, 2012, 10:58:08 PM
Thank you, Kushi. I am having a hard time findin a catalogue of UK transportation tokens.

Here is Wolverhampton. Black resin, 1.2 grams, 25.0 mm, one-sided.

Peter

Edit: 4 denominations added.
Edit: penny added.
Edit: 6 pence added
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 26, 2012, 10:59:08 AM
Air force blue plastic, 22 mm. Which town, city, borough or corporation uses these arms? I think I see a castle with a large central tower flanked by two smaller towers.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 26, 2012, 11:44:13 AM
This token shows Bury's old arms, but it is difficult to see. It is 22.1 mm, 1.0 gram.

Peter

Added halfpenny and tuppence. Tokens are of a darker shade in reality.
Added 1 ½ penny black. Picture is lightened.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on December 26, 2012, 11:52:24 AM
Closest I've got so far is Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire:

(http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/newcastle_lyme_fbc.JPG)

... but it's not that close. The supporters on your token look more like horses or deer than lions, for a start.

BTW this heraldry site (http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/index.html#top) will probably be useful in identifying obsolete borough arms on transport tokens, if you don't know about it already.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 26, 2012, 12:19:00 PM
No cigar yet. The castle (or city wall) with three towers is a common symbol on medieval coins and I don't see water below the castle on the token. I think the supporters are panthers, but supporters are more flexible than heraldic symbols on the shield. The arms are possibly no longer in use.

I checked the arms of the issuing authorities on the black and blue pennies listed in "tram and bus tokens of the British Isles".

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: capnbirdseye on December 26, 2012, 02:14:00 PM
looks very similar to Wigan,Lancashire ?  now obsolete with the new arms being completely different

 Wigan's old arms were granted on April 28, 1922, but were based on earlier seals and devices.
The crowned castle, king's head and couchant lion all come from ancient seals. The supporters are royal lions, made distinctive by holding branches of the rowan or Wiggin tree, a pun on the town's name.

The motto - ANCIENT AND LOYAL - refers to the antiquity and history of the Borough.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 26, 2012, 02:26:32 PM
Bingo! Thanks, capn.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: capnbirdseye on December 26, 2012, 03:41:47 PM
Could be a tram rather than bus token, hard to be sure how old the token is being plastic.
Here is a list of all UK Civic heraldry

http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/a-z.html#top (http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/a-z.html#top)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 26, 2012, 09:44:30 PM
 Here is a nice condition green 4d from Wigan on which you can read the motto 'Ancient and Loyal' on the ribbon at the base of the arms along with another blue 1d.

I believe the Wigan tokens were all tramway issues.

I notice the 1d reverse is quite different to  that shown above in reply 70.

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 26, 2012, 11:59:13 PM
The following two are a whole new strain of thought. Rather than NATIONAL TRANSPORT TOKEN, the legend has become BUS TOKEN. To make sure you grasp that they are not national tokens, a name is added, the district of Wyre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyre) and the town of Carlisle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle,_Cumbria). Is the national system falling apart?

Both tokens are aluminium, the 10p is 31.0 mm, 3.0 grammes, the 2 p is 25.7 mm, 2.0 grammes. Both sides are the same.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on December 27, 2012, 12:52:26 AM
The following two are a whole new strain of thought. Rather than NATIONAL TRANSPORT TOKEN, the legend has become BUS TOKEN. To make sure you grasp that they are not national tokens, a name is added, the district of Wyre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyre) and the town of Carlisle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle,_Cumbria). Is the national system falling apart?[/url]

These actually predate the national system, first we had metal tokens in the 30's, moving to plastic by the 60's (though some persisted until as recently as 2005), then these aluminium one's from the early 70's. The National tokens came next and are still in use  :)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: translateltd on December 27, 2012, 06:01:25 AM
Here is a nice series from Newcastle. The colours are brighter in reality, but in this way, the lettering is more legible. All tokens have the coat of arms. Note the placement of the dot below the D on the value side. Diameters vary between 21.8 and 22.6 mm.

Very belatedly, my selection of Newcastle Corporation Tramways tokens, picked up at various markets on a trip "home" in 1997: a couple of different denominations to those illustrated by Peter, and my 5d seems a much deeper pink and the penny quite a dark purple.

Hmm, we don't seem to have a thread on New Zealand milk tokens yet ...

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 27, 2012, 07:01:52 AM
Very belatedly, my selection of Newcastle Corporation Tramways tokens, picked up at various markets on a trip "home" in 1997: a couple of different denominations to those illustrated by Peter, and my 5d seems a much deeper pink and the penny quite a dark purple.

I think my 5d may be an even darker shade of pink. I have a few but none that are not listed already.
Quote
Hmm, we don't seem to have a thread on New Zealand milk tokens yet ...

This will be your province,  ;D I don't have any and I see there are only eleven listed in Smith & Smith; nearly all of which they rate as scarce and command a decent price.



Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 27, 2012, 11:42:50 PM
Berkshire, 5p, yellow plastic. Seventies? 26 mm.

Added 25 p.
Added 10 p.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 28, 2012, 12:12:36 AM

Hmm, we don't seem to have a thread on New Zealand milk tokens yet ...

I now see you say 'milk' my reply was in relation to transport tokens.

Quote
    Hmm, we don't seem to have a thread on New Zealand milk tokens yet ...

This will be your province,  ;D I don't have any and I see there are only eleven listed in Smith & Smith; nearly all of which they rate as scarce and command a decent price.


I only have a WCC cream token.

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 28, 2012, 12:03:09 PM
Berkshire, 5p, yellow plastic. Seventies? 26 mm.

Peter

I have two of these, the other is much lighter; it does not appear faded more like its from a different batch of plastic.

Two varieties 'lemon colour' listed by Smith and Smith at Newbury 543BG. 5p concessionary token was used Dec 1 1975 to June 24 1983
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 28, 2012, 12:18:39 PM
The following two are a whole new strain of thought. Rather than NATIONAL TRANSPORT TOKEN, the legend has become BUS TOKEN. To make sure you grasp that they are not national tokens, a name is added, the district of Wyre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyre) and the town of Carlisle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle,_Cumbria). Is the national system falling apart?

Both tokens are aluminium, the 10p is 31.0 mm, 3.0 grammes, the 2 p is 25.7 mm, 2.0 grammes. Both sides are the same.

Peter

I have a 2p from Wyre, perhaps earlier, along with another similar from Fleetwood also 2p, Aluminium 25.5mm., both being the same both sides. Fleetwood is a town within the Wyre district of Lancashire, England, also a seaside resort, serving as a quiet contrast to nearby Blackpool.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 28, 2012, 12:41:23 PM
Glasgow! 1.0 grams, 21.3 mm, chocolate brown fiber (colour changed by increasing contrast).
(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9613.0;attach=29154;image) (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9613.0;attach=29153;image)
Peter

I feel that one you list is plastic, the size implies plastic too.

I have four of these 2 Stage tokens in plastic in varying shades of red, 21.5mm., along with one larger fibre token, 23.7mm that is quite different, the reverse having much larger font.

Edit; Another Glasgow 2 stage added today. rev. legend nicely spaced - see right-hand token the other is left-hand in Epa3054; obv see space between upper and lower legend.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 28, 2012, 12:47:48 PM
Another from Glasgow is that for the Subway Railway 1d white plastic, 25mm. [enhanced to show the lettering more clearly]

A blue halfpenny is also known.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on December 28, 2012, 04:17:56 PM
I have four of these 2 Stage tokens in plastic in varying shades of red, 21.5mm...

There is also a noticeable difference in the 2 -- the first two have a squashed digit compared to the other two.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 28, 2012, 10:01:35 PM
Yes I should have mentioned that, also the other two vary in the position of the 2. The third appears to match that posted by Peter.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 29, 2012, 11:59:02 AM
I see two major die varieties: S above T and S between T and O. There is also a squat 2, which seems to coincide with the second type while the first type can have a squat or a normal 2. I think the 2 was made with a separate punch, to facilitate production of other "denominations", so the position of the 2 is not so important to me.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 29, 2012, 12:27:16 PM
I agree, however there was no 'single' STAGE, only the 2 STAGE. There is also a lemon yellow and 2 black 2 STAGE listed along with several halfpennies and three pennies, all in a variety of colours, for the tramways.

Scottish Transport Tokens by Ronnie Breingan devotes a whole chapter to the history of the Glasgow Corporation Tramways but does not explain the use of these 2 stage tokens.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 29, 2012, 12:39:37 PM
Both are 25 mm. Darwen is near Blackburn and in the general Manchester area. Maybe a trip to Manchester was 5d?

I lightened the green token to show its arms better.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 29, 2012, 12:59:39 PM
Another, this time a  three-halfpenny for Darwen, 26mm. the Coat of Arms is nearly worn flat so darkened a little.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 30, 2012, 11:21:56 AM
Three LCC tokens, Halfpenny, penny and tuppence. The only values but each came in variety of colours, all 22mm. 1889 is probably a foundation date.

London County Council ran its own extensive tramway system from 1899 to 1933 until London Transport was formed on 1 July 1933.

My most vivid recollection of the london trams was a stopover at Lee Green of about ten minutes duration whilst the changeover from three rails to the overhead wire system used in the outer areas was made. Much of the system used a conduit system of electrical current, as the metropolitan boroughs had the power of veto on the installation of overhead wires.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 30, 2012, 12:04:02 PM
Great going, Malcolm!

Here is a penny from Ilkeston, blue-green, 30 mm. The other side is blank.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 30, 2012, 12:45:42 PM
The large Ilkeston token may be a scarce piece, it is not listed in Smith; plus there were only 13 trams in the fleet.

The first public tram ran on 16 May 1903. The tramway was bought by the Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Tramways Company in 1916 but the routes of the two companies never joined (and being different gauges, this seemed an unlikely proposition). Tram services ceased in 1931.

More. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilkeston_Corporation_Tramways)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 30, 2012, 12:52:22 PM
Voice does have it. It is the only piece from Ilkeston he mentions. Your details (trams with different gauges!) are precious.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on December 30, 2012, 06:07:12 PM
Many thanks for the photo and information. Marvelous.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 05, 2013, 01:39:52 PM
Oldham is not a global scale metropolis, but you'd almost believe it from the bewildering varieties in their tramway tokens. The yellow penny (sounds like a Beatles song) is slightly over 22 mm, the baby pink halfpenny is a tad below 22 mm. Oldham is an agglomeration near Manchester. The owls in the arms are a pun (owldham), not a reflection of the wisdom of the textile workers wanting to use public transportation to Manchester with these tokens. The arms were changed (date not clear) since, replacing the rose by a third ring.

Four variations of the penny and three of the halfpenny added.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 05, 2013, 03:02:29 PM
Elsewhere, I posted tokens from Kingston-upon-Hull in decimal pence. This halfpenny is dark blue, but I lightened the image to show the arms with the three crowns. This token is 25 mm.

Added tuppence red. I found two varieties. I think they were made with different technologies. The differences that are the easiest to see are the place of the shield relative to the legend and the dot relative to the 2.

More varieties. Compare the size of the 2 and the placing of the dot on the three-halfpence and the penny

Added threepence grey and fourpence blue-green

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on January 13, 2013, 04:31:48 PM
this isn't really about the tokens, but it is contemporary with their use...
Anyhow if it doesn't belong here it can be deleted again!

http://www.route-one.net/ (http://www.route-one.net/)

RETROSPECTIVE: JIM HULME
WHEN FIDDLING WAS RIFE
In the fifth in his series of Life on the Buses articles based on his 50 years in the bus industiy, Jim
Hulme reazlls the days before electronic ticket machines put an end to some dubious practices.

I really can’t believe the scams that I came across during my years at Greater
Manchester PTE when it was still a bus operator. Although some attempts were farcical, others were nothing short of fraud.  The PTE discovered that drivers were able to get into the workings of the Almex ‘A’ ticket machines, and by removing a lead seal they could wind back the counters which showed how many tickets had been sold and how much money had to be paid in. In this way a driver was able to understate sales and pocket the difference.  There is an apocryphal story that the scam was discovered because a driver somewhere was winding his machine numbers forwards instead of backwards. This meant, for example, that if he had sold £100 of tickets, and he thought he had wound the machine back to show sales of only £80, he was able to pocket £20. By winding it on instead the takings showed that he was due to pay in £120. By his own wrong manipulations the driver was now £20 short in his takings!

Back in the 1970s Bolton was chosen as a test bed for the advance purchase of discounted tickets. Passengers were able to buy books of 2p tickets at a discount of 33%. which were then used to pay the full fare in lieu of cash. The driver issued a ticket to the value of the sale and at the end of duty paid in a combination of cash and 2p tickets and accounted for sales in terms of cash/tickets taken against value of sales.

I was greeted one morning by the head cashier who informed me that a driver had paid in 100 consecutively-numbered discounted tickets. The driver had bought the tickets himself and then had substituted them for cash taken from passengers. In effect he was buying cash at a 33% discount! He genuinely thought that he had done nothing wrong. I naturally dismissed him and he lost his subsequent appeals.

A very sad occasion had all the ingredients of a Brian Rix farce. The widow of a driver at Bolton who had recently died came into the offices to return her husband’s uniform and other items belonging to the organisation, including what she described as his ‘spare’ ticket machine!

In another spare machine fraud, a driver at one of my Manchester garages stole a ticket machine and doctored it so that tickets printed from the official machine and his ‘spare’ machine showed the same identification number. So if an inspector boarded a bus everything appeared to be in order. The driver would run a series of journeys using his own machine, and then would print off the same number of tickets from the official machine at lower values, and so when the driver paid in his cash takings everything appeared to be in order, and he was in the money. What he hadn’t bargained for was an eagle-eyed Inspector, who picked up a ticket from the floor of the bus and noticed that the ink density was heavier on that ticket than on the tickets held by passengers.

In the early ‘70s the method of revenue collection at many locations amounted to nothing more than an honesty box. ‘Johnson boxes’ involved the passenger placing coins through a slot into a ‘see through’ plastic container in the view of the driver. No ticket was issued and therefore there was no check as to whether the passenger had paid the correct fare. The driver was then required to operate a lever whereupon the cash dropped into a sealed vault.
it will come as no surprise to know that passengers loved the system because in effect they were paving the fare which they deemed appropriate. Drivers loved the system too. Chewing gum stuck on the end of a knitting needle was the favoured option of lifting coins from the plastic container before they had been consigned to the vault.
it was decided, therefore, to introduce ticket machines across the GMPTE network which meant that the Johnson boxes would go and passengers would be issued with a ticket.
A fares increase coincided with the introduction of the ticket machines, and we had calculated the likely level of resistance, which showed that while passengers would be lost, income would increase.
The outcome was devastating. Not only were passengers lost, but income was lower than it had been before.
The reason was simple. Where a passenger had been due to pay say a 4p fare under the old system, and had paid only 2p, an increase from 4p to 5p actually meant a 3p increase. We hadn’t calculated the effect on the large number of people who were paving substantially below the required fare and for whom the increase was two- or threefold! •

www.route-one.net
Thursday 10 January 2013 25
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 13, 2013, 05:20:48 PM
Fine period piece. Thanks, andyg!

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 13, 2013, 09:05:06 PM
That is a great addition to the story of how fares are charged.

However my maths are not up to working out this last paragraph unless they lost a great number of passengers:-

Quote
The outcome was devastating. Not only were passengers lost, but income was lower than it had been before.
The reason was simple. Where a passenger had been due to pay say a 4p fare under the old system, and had paid only 2p, an increase from 4p to 5p actually meant a 3p increase. We hadn’t calculated the effect on the large number of people who were paving substantially below the required fare and for whom the increase was two- or threefold! •
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 15, 2013, 01:06:39 PM
A hideously fluorescent green 20p that needed heavy computer manipulation before the texts became visible, but with an interesting feature: 90° die rotation! Since it fits with the L (Leicestershire, geddit?), probably thought of as a security feature. 27 mm.

Added 50 p orange.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 17, 2013, 11:42:33 AM
There are separate posts for tramways tokens, celluloid tokens and miner's bus tokens from Sheffield. Use the index to find them. This post is for non-celluloid, pre-decimal transport department tokens.

Added a six-sided threepence in the same colour as the round variety.
Added a whitish halfpenny.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 17, 2013, 03:23:14 PM
I have good memories of Dundee, ranging from an outstanding garden, high up on a hill, to the hulk of a three-master down below. Here is an additional one. A 22.5 white fiber penny (no, it's not ivory ;)) with a long-suffering (where have all the flowers gone, as Marlène Dietrich sang) coat of arms.

For the Dundee Tramway tokens look here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg142623.html#msg142623)

Peter

Added 2, 3 and 6 pence.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: @josephjk on February 17, 2013, 03:31:09 PM
What is "fiber" Peter? Is it a kind of plastic or a resin?
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 17, 2013, 04:02:56 PM
I have used fiber as a neutral word for an artificial material. The token probably dates from sometime between the two world worlds, so it's too easy to call it plastic (http://inventors.about.com/od/pstartinventions/a/plastics.htm). Plastic was known from 1908, but plastic mass-produced products mostly date from (well) after 1945, e.g. I grew up in the 50s and 60s without plastic toys.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 18, 2013, 11:50:24 AM
5 Y.E.B 1½D 25mm Blue plastic. Smith & Smith, Wakefield 800 BF

Used by employees of the Yorkshire Electricity Board.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 18, 2013, 12:00:12 PM
YORKSHIRE (W.D.) ELECTRIC TRAMWAYS LD 1½D 22mm white plastic Dewsbury 242 AJ

YORKSHIRE W.D. TRANSPORT CO LTD  3D 22mm lemon plastic Dewsbury 242 BT

W.D. = Woollen District
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: bagerap on February 18, 2013, 04:49:04 PM
Any ideas of date for this little fellow?
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/482013/1361201030_422170453_8272.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=12698)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/482013/1361201032_1688996478_8272a.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=12699)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 18, 2013, 08:02:08 PM
Before 1958. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdeen_Corporation_Tramways)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 18, 2013, 10:22:15 PM
Halfpenny fare says very early. Probably pre-WW1. another in the same style was for military use. 

Aberdeen Corporation Tramways Opened 27 August 1898 closed 1958
Aberdeen Suburban Tramways Opened 23 June 1904 Closed    9 June 1927
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: africancoins on February 19, 2013, 12:11:11 AM
Material....  the really old looking "plastic" tokens in this series are celluloid or something rather similar... More recently pieces are a more modern plastic... maybe there is another plastic material inbetween....

For plastic pieces there are two possible methods of manufacture... something like... older pieces.. "hot-melt" where the material is pressed into with something hot from each side.... Then the pieces from 1970's onward (perhaps a little earlier too) are injection moulded and will have a pip on the edge...  There could always be another method used at some stage during the 20th century. Not too certain on all of this.

As for fibre.... The last piece shown in reply 85 of this topic could well be the only fibre piece in this topic. Very few British transport pieces are made of this. I think there are also a few co-op tokens made from fibre. It may be easier to find a fibre U.S. Sales Tax token - that series includes plastic, metal and fibre pieces.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 22, 2013, 11:07:25 AM
Celluloid dates from about 1885 and until the early 1920s was one of the commonest plastics around. After this, up to the time of WW2, transport tokens were made using a cheaper alternative of cellulose acetate which is a development of the earlier Celluloid. As Paul said the injection moulded type came in later; I would suggest late fifties early sixties.

By the 1940s plastics were found in almost every home especially in electrical equipment and fittings but if you take a look at the Plastics Historical Society (http://www.plastiquarian.com/) page you can see tons of plastics stuff.

A very early fibre token is this grey one from Sheffield. Another in black fibre may be seen here. (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9613.msg83974.html#msg83974) this has a very distinctive shape for use by the vision impaired.

Penny red added.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: orsk2 on February 25, 2013, 07:00:30 PM
Tell us about these tokens?
In what years they were used?
Thank you.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on February 25, 2013, 07:05:16 PM
The first two are denominated in decimal pence, so after 1971, but probably not for very long after (especially in the case of the 1p) -- so probably 1971-late 70s.

The other three are denominated in old pence, so before 1971, but more specific I am unable to be.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: orsk2 on February 25, 2013, 07:07:55 PM
Tokens.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: orsk2 on February 25, 2013, 07:11:03 PM
The first two are denominated in decimal pence, so after 1971, but probably not for very long after (especially in the case of the 1p) -- so probably 1971-late 70s.

The other three are denominated in old pence, so before 1971, but more specific I am unable to be.
Thank you FosseWay!
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: orsk2 on February 27, 2013, 05:43:02 PM
Who can add information?
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 03, 2013, 11:16:53 AM
Who can add information?

For the Kingston Upon Hull Corporation Transport see 'The Official History Of Kingston Upon Hull City Transport' A Brief History. (http://hullcitytransport.co.uk/id1.html) which in fact is a huge history.  ;D

I did not find the actual tokens but a skimmed over a bit so may have missed these. I did find he has used dew i/o due about twenty times which is rather irritating.

It seems the Kingston Upon Hull Corporation Transport name change to Kingston Upon Hull City Transport was made in 1972 so the two decimal pieces you show would have become obsolete the year after they were introduced. The coat of arms on the tokens were modified at one stage, I am guessing it may have been in the 1930's however a thorough read of the article may reveal when this change occurred; Your pieces are of this latter design.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 03, 2013, 11:36:43 AM
Morecambe & Heysham Corporation
 The history (http://www.freewebs.com/lancaster_buses/morecambeheysham.htm) of the council owned public transport operation in Morecambe & Heysham that can trace its origins to the Morecambe Tramways Company that began operating in 1887. The story is told right through to the amalgamation with Lancaster's bus operation in 1974

October 1928 saw the amalgamation of Heysham Urban District Council with the Borough of Morecambe to create the new Morecambe & Heysham Corporation.

The Morecambe & Heysham Corporation depot passed to the control of Lancaster City Council from April 1st, 1974.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 03, 2013, 11:58:17 AM
 Wallasey Corporation Motor Buses.

Wallasey Council/Corporation Tramways existed between 1902 and 1933 when they were superceded by Wallasey Corporation Motor Buses. Major Robert Roughley Greene was general manager from inception to 1923.

The trams were built by Brush & Co of Loughborough and when, at inception a representative of Brush & Co enquired of a representative of Wallasey Council what colour the trams should be painted, the answer came, "see Greene". Taken literally, the Brush & Co rep. reported back that the trams were to be painted sea green. The trams were indeed painted a "muddy" green & cream.

On the 1st December 1969, the 75 buses of Wallasey Corporation were merged with the neighbouring fleets of Birkenhead and Liverpool Corporations to form the Merseyside Passenger Transport Executive, bringing to an end almost 70 years of independent municipal operations in the borough of Wallasey.

More here. (http://www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/wallasey1.htm)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 03, 2013, 12:11:08 PM
Wolverhampton Corporation Transport Department.

This name appears to date from the late 1920's through to 1969 when the corporation transport department closed and the routes and vehicles were taken over by the West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive along with the fleets of Walsall, West Bromwich and Birmingham, though in effect the PTE was just an enlarged Birmingham City Transport under a different name.

More here. (http://www.wulfrunian.net/wolves.htm)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 03, 2013, 12:19:38 PM
Southport Corporation Transport 1900-1974

31st December 1934, the last tram ran in Southport [Southport Tramways Company] so around this date I surmise the name changed to Southport Transport. On the 1st April 1974, the transport undertakings of these two municipal operators were absorbed into the Merseyside PTE, and at midnight on the 31st March 1974, Southport Corporation Transport passed into history and almost 75 years of locally controlled municipal services ended.

More here. (http://www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/southport1.htm)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: orsk2 on March 03, 2013, 02:28:40 PM
Thank you very much malj1!
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 30, 2013, 03:15:55 PM
Matlock is centrally located in the centre of England. ;) It is built on hills, making motorised transportation popular. From July 1971 to March 1974, the Matlock Urban District Council issued 6 rectangular tokens. Happy to say I got some of them. They are 38 x 25 mm.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on March 30, 2013, 04:28:18 PM
Quick question to the UK transport token collectors out there: Where do you get these goodies from? Last time I looked on British eBay (admittedly a while ago) the number of transport tokens was very limited. Likewise in the online lists of dealers that I frequent. Conversely, I've got Swedish transport tokens coming out of my ears because they're easily come by on both Tradera (Swedish eBay) and at dealers.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 30, 2013, 05:19:15 PM
But the good people of Matlock got tired of rectangular tokens. The last two are round. Here is the blue variety.  One day, I'll have the red one too 8)

And sure enough, here it is. Plus a later token (both sides are the same.) I have great friends!

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 30, 2013, 10:36:07 PM
Quick question to the UK transport token collectors out there: Where do you get these goodies from? Last time I looked on British eBay (admittedly a while ago) the number of transport tokens was very limited. Likewise in the online lists of dealers that I frequent. Conversely, I've got Swedish transport tokens coming out of my ears because they're easily come by on both Tradera (Swedish eBay) and at dealers.

A search on UK eBay for British transport tokens today reveals 56, at other times there are more; just recently two large collections have been sold on there.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 02, 2013, 08:06:25 PM
Uptread (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9613.msg137861.html#msg137861) is a later series of Dundee public transportation tokens, also showing the Dundee arms. These tokens still refer to the Dundee tramways. The halfpenny (23 mm) is noticeably larger than the penny (22 mm).

Added a penny in a different material.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 03, 2013, 12:33:33 PM
We already have a thread, complete with coat of arms, on Edinburgh transportation tokens here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9613.msg98433.html#msg98433), but this addition is special. Three different types of 5, D and •, attesting to the enduring usefulness of the tokens as well as how they got lost, so that new tokens had to be ordered from time to time. It was an extra income for the Edinburgh Corporation and now provides joy to collectors.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 08, 2013, 11:10:04 PM
For other denominations in the Yorkshire woollen district series see this post (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23322.msg137961.html#msg137961).

Penny red (transport) and 1-½ pence pale green (tramways) added

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 15, 2013, 12:49:46 PM
This fantastic token is currently on eBay; BRADFORD. CITY TRAMWAYS. signed FATTORINI & SONS reverse BRADFORD. DISTRICT NURSES. ONLY TO BE USED WHEN ON DUTY

Smith & Smith list it at Bradford 115D and suggest it is bronze and 31mm. - the size of an old penny.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 20, 2013, 04:39:00 AM
Another that is difficult to identify, bearing only arms and denomination, are the tokens from Blackburn, Lancs.

They show the city arms with ARTE ET LABORE on the ribbon. This type are listed as R4 = 121-600 known.

Edit;
Motto 'ARTE ET LABORE' - By skill and labour.
Granted 14th February 1852, to the former Borough of Blackburn.

The Borough of Blackburn was formed by the amalgamation of the County Borough of Blackburn, the Borough of Darwen, part of the Turton Urban District and the parishes of Yate and Pickup Bank, Eccleshill, Livesey, Pleasington and Tockholes from the Blackburn Rural District.

from... http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/cumbria_palatine_counties.html#blackburn%20bc (http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/cumbria_palatine_counties.html#blackburn%20bc)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on June 17, 2013, 09:18:42 AM
Another Glasgow 2 stage added today. rev. legend nicely spaced - see right-hand token the other is left-hand from above in Epa3054; obv see space between upper and lower legend. I.E. G to T

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9613.0;attach=35745;image)

See here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg131737.html#msg131737) for original discussion.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on June 17, 2013, 10:25:12 AM
May I ask what is Epa3054?
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on June 17, 2013, 11:40:00 AM
Part of Epa3054 is the left-hand token.

See the link below the image to this Reply #85 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9613.msg131737.html#msg131737)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 12, 2013, 10:35:36 AM
Rotherham is an industrial town in Yorkshire. The text on the ribbon means "thus industry flourishes". I like the way this token has worn, acquiring some smudge in the process that accentuate the lettering.

For Rotherham county borough tokens, see here.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 12, 2013, 11:19:47 AM
Darlington is a railway town, at one time pivot on the Darlington & Stockton railways (one of the first train is at the top of the arms,) later best known as one of the train stops between London and York. This token has exactly the same colour as the Rotherham token above. I suspect one factory got the lion share of the market.

The arms were changed in 1960. The 1974 edition of the arms is shown here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg64412.html#msg64412).

Added ½d black, penny red, 2d yellow. Picture was lightened to show detail on the halfpenny. Note to the Daily Mail: those are the colours of ze Djerman vlag!

Here's a surprising addition: a token with different arms. They are the 1976 arms of the Borough, not the city of Darlington, as on the token above.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 12, 2013, 11:44:41 AM
You wouldn't know it from this token, but the arms of Ipswich are a climbing lion left and three ship hulls right. Indeed, Ipswich is one of the Cinque Ports (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinque_Ports), your best bet of remembering the French word for five. ;) The motto on the ribbon is MVNIA CIVITAS DECVS CIVIVM: the role of the city is the honour of the citizens.

Added 1-½ penny black (colour changed to increase contrast.)
Added 2 pence yellow

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 13, 2013, 04:48:18 PM
Here's a charming pair that is different from the "mainstream". They are slightly eccentric, not struck in a collar and apparently, the die was too small for the flan. The metal is quite thin and light. The brass penny is 2.6 grams, the aluminium half threepence is 0.9 grams. Note the different numbers one in the denomination. I suspect they came from separate punches. I think these tokens were locally made.

See also this post (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=14711.msg114384#msg114384).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 22, 2013, 07:26:58 PM
Here are some decimal value from Sheffield. Stamp collectors: here's your chance to own a black penny :)

5 pence light blue added (mine is probably somewhat discoloured)

Peter

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23322.0;attach=32531;image)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 04, 2013, 02:08:38 PM
More from Sheffield. Note the word Tramways.

Added a three halfpence grey and halfpenny white. Note the missing dot in the denomination.
Added a halfpenny blue and two halfpennies for pupils. The two school tokens look the same, except for the colour. Variety or type?

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 05, 2013, 08:33:16 PM
West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive (WYPTE) is not in Voice - so might not be a fare token, but it did exist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYPTE). That said, I have no explanation for the hole or for SOV. ST.  According to Wikipedia, they had no stop that fits that text.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 05, 2013, 10:09:10 PM
SOV ST probably refers to the Leeds City Transport, Sovereign Street Depot in Leeds City Centre. [Part of WYPTE]

This depot was changed to minibuses only in the mid 1980's and now appears to have been sold for redevelopment.

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on November 06, 2013, 12:15:48 AM
These two tokens are a good counterpoint. North Midlands is a known quantity on the net, but the transport pool seems to have died before the internet. The penny is 26 mm, the 3d and 6d 27 mm.

Peter

Edit: 6d added.

Anyone out there know where these tokens (North Midland Transport Pool) were used?
Smith (1990) has under Nottingham, but I think that somewhat unlikely as Nottingham had their own tokens.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 06, 2013, 01:04:59 AM
Voice has them under Nottingham also. At the time, national bus companies and their regional affiliates operated side by side with local bus companies. One of the national companies was Midland Red North (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arriva_Midlands), with a depot in Nottingham.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 06, 2013, 01:19:28 AM
I think that's a logo combining the letters ATC…

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 06, 2013, 01:51:09 AM
Smith confirms the monogram ATC but does not indicate what the C could be.

Previous issues were Aberdare Urban District Council, followed by Aberdare Tramways [also with ATC monogram]; then Aberdare Transport in use only from Feb 15 1971 to Aug 31 1971.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: redwine on November 06, 2013, 08:38:54 PM
I'd say ABERDARE CORPORATION TRAMWAYS  :-*
Be aware I know nothing of transport tokens but see
http://www.birches.plus.com/page2/page5/page66/page66.html    ::)

And do remember I am Welsh 8)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 06, 2013, 09:08:20 PM
No real conclusion there, possibly it could refer to Aberdare Council Tramway? ...reduced from Aberdare Urban District Council Tramways. Or even the Aberdare Tramway Company?

Owner   Aberdare Urban District Council
Opened   9th October 1913 (electric)
Operator   Aberdare Urban District Council
Closed   1st April 1935
Length   5.77 miles
Gauge   3ft 6ins
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: redwine on November 06, 2013, 09:14:43 PM
If you look at the other Corporation Tramway operations at that time they seem to go for the functional and somewhat grandiose .
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on November 06, 2013, 09:35:11 PM
Voice has them under Nottingham also. At the time, national bus companies and their regional affiliates operated side by side with local bus companies. One of the national companies was Midland Red North (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arriva_Midlands), with a depot in Nottingham.

Peter

Nope, we (I still work for them) have never had a depot in Nottingham. :-\
Nottingham still has a municipal (Nottingham City Transport) which is council run and then a private company (Trent).  Trent were nationalised, but not until 1968 then sold again after 1986 act.

Your right in that "pool" refers to a mix of private bus companies / council municipals pooling their resources, so this token was used by more than one operators - at the present moment we just don'understand fully where.  It is unlikely to be Nottingham itself.

More here on licensing in the area...
http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/31st-july-1953/25/protection-money (http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/31st-july-1953/25/protection-money)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: redwine on November 07, 2013, 06:56:04 AM
Yes may have had too many glasses last night so having read the London Gazette of 1921 this morning, I'm plumping for Aberdare Council Tramways.  See http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/32398/pages/5845/page.pdf
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 08, 2013, 05:49:56 AM
Leeds City Transport. 1d large arms. White but well used thus dirty which helps to show the legend. 22.7mm.

Picture of ½, 1-½ and 3 pence added
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on November 10, 2013, 10:38:47 AM
Birmingham 1d
These are recorded as two types in some reference books -
with and without "forward" under the arms.

Isn't one just poorly made rather than it's own type?
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 10, 2013, 11:23:13 AM
I think I would call it a variety rather than a type.

I notice the Smith's refer to types, varieties and shades - with the latter two I wonder where one ends and the other begins?
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on November 10, 2013, 12:28:21 PM
Taking London for example - types listed are;
1d -
light red
red
dark red
maroon

with no indication of how to tell them apart...
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 10, 2013, 01:12:05 PM
That also applies to other entries in many other catalogues with descriptions such as "larger font' or 'smaller font' for instance.

See this image from a review of Machine tokens, referring to this....
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 10, 2013, 02:11:58 PM
It gets to the point where you can create your own shade of colour with some bleach or by putting it out in the sun. ::)

Sure, it is difficult to get the same shade of plastic twice, unless you follow a precise recipe precisely (Lego does), but is that a variety? My approach is that the only thing that counts is a shade that is darker than normal and can be distinguished without having to compare it with normal shades side by side.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 12, 2013, 11:58:51 PM
Barrow insists to add "in Furness", or its transportation company would have been known as Wheels of Barrow. Anyway, they think it looks hot. It seems like at one time the regular fee was threepence and postmen and employees paid half. Then, the fee doubled…

added: penny yellow employee, penny orange postman, 5 d yellow.
added: 2d black postman, 2d air force blue employee, 3d green value not outlined. Picture lightened considerably to show design on the black piece.

More tokens of Barrow-in-Furness here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=14711.msg175889#msg175889).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 13, 2013, 02:05:55 AM
A second post for Birmingham to add a highly interesting double thickness penny. Feels like a different material (celluloid?), looks like it consists of obverse and reverse halves, "welded" together.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 13, 2013, 02:29:24 AM
A second post for Birmingham to add a highly interesting double thickness penny. Feels like a different material (celluloid?), looks like it consists of obverse and reverse halves, "welded" together.

Peter

This is listed as a separate type by Smith at 80AE.

He also lists a green penny and a dark green three-halfpence with the same remarks: (very thick)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 13, 2013, 11:10:22 PM
Chesterfield thought different. They decided to put the quite attractive central device of their coat of arms, a heraldic pomegranate tree, on their transport tokens. Heresy! Fortunately, they had second thoughts for a later series and did the usual arms/denomination thing. Just in time to be saved from the pillory, one hopes :)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 14, 2013, 12:00:29 AM
A slightly austere piece, but one of the older tramway tokens.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 14, 2013, 12:32:33 AM
There are many differences, because of a different font size, dot size and placement of the legend. The best way to distinguish them if you have one copy is to look at the direction of the vertical bar of the E in EDINBURGH. On the left, it points at the centre of the ball on the 3. On the right, it points at the top of that ball.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 14, 2013, 10:08:28 PM
A series of 25mm (1 inch) tokens from Leigh is here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg179576.html#msg179576). The tokens in this post are 22.225 mm (7/8th inch). Leigh is 8 miles due West of the Manchester ring road. Fun detail: according to Google maps, there is no direct bus connection between Leigh and Manchester. You have to take a bus to Wigan first >:D

Fourpence green added.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 14, 2013, 11:02:20 PM
The common side of the London tokens is here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23322.msg131978.html#msg131978). This post may partially overlap.

The lighter halfpenny has an incuse outlined denomination. The placement of the dots in the denomination is different on the two red pennies. There are other subtle differences also.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 15, 2013, 02:18:05 AM
OLD BERT AND BILL / BUS SERVICE Brass, 22.7mm.

Bert and Bill were Bert Everard and Bill Potter who ran an early bus service in Carlisle using a small converted T-model Ford, both Londoners they had met in the army.

The tokens were used as tickets and were sold to passengers at the rate of seven to one shilling.

Information from an article in the TCS Bulletin Vol.5 No.9 of Sept. 1996.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 15, 2013, 01:12:25 PM
Cutie! A story worthy of Disney. Not in Voice.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 15, 2013, 03:09:03 PM
There is a post for Nottingham tokens already, but this one is good enough for its own post. This token is marked A.R.P. which means that it was meant for air raid precautions wardens. Nottingham, unlike Walmington, is not by the sea, but I can still see warden Hodges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dad's_Army_characters#Chief_Air_Raid_Precautions_Warden_William_.28Willie.29_Hodges) use this, managing to make it a token of the extraordinary power invested in him :)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 15, 2013, 04:44:20 PM
The Plymouth arms were redesigned some time after 1925. The tokens show the old arms. There are two arms sizes. On the red token, the tail of the right lion aligns with TI. On the white token, it aligns with AT. The denomination side comes in several versions. The 2 penny token is slightly smaller and thinner than the others. It looks like another production process was used.

Added an TI aligned 5 pence baby blue.
Added three versions of the 1 ½d red, a black penny with a broad, outlined 1 and a tuppence brown. All are TI aligned.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 15, 2013, 05:32:57 PM
Preston took the central elements of its coat of arms as main device for its bus tokens. PP is said to mean Princeps Pacis (prince of peace). My first thought was Prestonis Patronas (patron saint of Preston). The Lamb is the device of St. Wilfrid who is the Patron Saint of Preston.

Added a dark blue one stage token. The text is different;y aligned. The quickest way to distinguish the two alignments is by the E in ONE. On the blue token it is left of the G underneath. On the black token it is to the right of the G.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 15, 2013, 08:13:08 PM
Rochdale was once a textile economy (hence the wool sack on the arms,) but it has become a commuting town in greater Manchester. I have a second black token with what on a coin would be called 180° die rotation.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 15, 2013, 11:13:41 PM
There is a post for Nottingham tokens already, but this one is good enough for its own post. This token is marked A.R.P. which means that it was meant for air raid precautions wardens. Nottingham, unlike Walmington, is not by the sea, but I can still see warden Hodges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dad's_Army_characters#Chief_Air_Raid_Precautions_Warden_William_.28Willie.29_Hodges) use this, managing to make it a token of the extraordinary power invested in him :)

Peter

I distinctly remember showing my Nottingham Corporation ARP three-halfpenny here too, it seems to have dropped off. (see Wartime Nottingham (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg101115.html#msg101115)) A nicer shade of blue this time - but otherwise the same.

For use during WW2 by Air Raid Wardens, but only when on duty. Other colours are known Orange, Light green and Dark green; also an Orange 1d.

All these different issues leads one to speculate that they may also have been issued to the  Home Guard [Dads Army] too. Mainwaring would have had a hand in this!

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 16, 2013, 12:03:50 AM
Salford's arms have changed since this token came about, but it remains a confused hotchpotch. Today, it is a borough within greater Manchester.

Even in good light, black and white tokens all look alike. So why are there so many of them?

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 17, 2013, 08:58:02 AM
From Sheffield we have the:

WALESWOOD COLLIERIES MOTOR BUS 2d red celluloid, 21.7mm another is known in Maroon, both are (R9) = 2 - 4 known.

A very nice image of the bus can be seen here (http://killamarsh.org/photo-gallery/waleswood-colliery-pit-bus-photo-courtesy-of-astrid-north/).

Added bus tokens for the West Thorpe and Oxcroft mines, also near Sheffield. Both sides are the same.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on November 17, 2013, 01:56:17 PM
What is the W.S.T.? I suppose the W. and T. are West Thorpe, but what is the S.?

The Smiths (1990) have this listed as England 685 BW.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 17, 2013, 02:26:51 PM
Just quoting Voice. Booth & Fisher was a bus company, based in Eckington, specialised in transporting miners. Voice lists a number of Sheffield area mines served by them: High Moors (HM), Kiveton Park (KP), Oxcroft (OC), unknown (RPK), Waleswood (black on blue token) and West Thorpe (WST). They do not have a denomination.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on November 17, 2013, 02:45:34 PM
Got it. I'm presuming this is West Thorpe.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 17, 2013, 03:01:43 PM
South Shields is Newcastle's sea port, which explains the arms supporters (sailor, commerce) as well as the boat, that would typically be used to transport the crews of big ships. The anchor is still there, but the flags were replaced by a helmet some time after 1925. For the series with TRANSPORT, rather than TRAMWAYS, see this post (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg183811.html#msg183811).

Added a dark blue halfpenny. Colour lightened to increase visibility.
Added a yellow double penny and a light blue halfpenny. Variety or type?

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 17, 2013, 04:05:23 PM
Surprisingly, the coat of arms used in the tokens of Sunderland is quite hard to find. I presume it was unofficial and not registered. I found it on the access gates of Mowbray Park: a sextant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sextant).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 17, 2013, 10:17:09 PM
, unknown (RPK),
Peter

RPK = Renishaw Park Colliery Line [from Smith and Smith]

Furnace Hill & Renishaw Park Collieries Ltd. Registered Office: 53, Norfolk Street, Sheffield

Here is a RENISHAW PARK COLLIERY BRASS MINERS CHECK from there. [not a transport item] from eBay.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 17, 2013, 10:42:10 PM
Just quoting Voice. Booth & Fisher was a bus company, based in Eckington, specialised in transporting miners. Voice lists a number of Sheffield area mines served by them: High Moors (HM), Kiveton Park (KP), Oxcroft (OC), unknown (RPK), Waleswood (black on blue token) and West Thorpe (WST). They do not have a denomination.

Peter

See Booth & Fisher (Motor Services) Ltd. (http://www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/booth1.htm) for a history of the company.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 17, 2013, 10:46:30 PM
Thank you, Malcolm. My copy of Voice will be better than a new one :)

Here's another series to have fun with. The Yorkshire Traction Company (YTC). The colourful tokens are already a bit different: both sides are the same. However, the second series is mind boggling: not the colour, but the size differs with value.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 10:53:05 AM
Here come the tokens of Basingstoke and Deane. Each with an expiry date (to end contingent liabilities, I suppose). Cute detail: the square on the green variant, making sure you can't just paint an old token and recycle it. ;)

Pounds red (2005), salmon (2006) and orange (2010/11) added.
Pounds blue (2006/07), red (2007/08), purple (2008/09) and blue-green (2009/10) added.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 11:27:42 AM
Blackburn turned into Blackburn with Darwen in 1974, but the arms remained the same. The denomination and the heraldry are arguments for a date before the merger, so we can tentatively decide on 1968-1974.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 11:57:10 AM
Cannock Chase is a district about halfway between Stoke-on-Trent and Birmingham. The C on the purple token is not a cancellation but part of the design.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 12:14:42 PM
A clear continuation of the pre-decimal tokens. Inflation would hit hard.

Peter

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23322.0;attach=40144;image)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 12:31:37 PM
A confused token. Voice lists it under Cotswold, which is one of the nicest places in England to visit as long as it doesn't rain. However, the C cutout is an indication that it should really be listed under Gloucestershire. When the C is in the correct position, the Gloucestershire side is up. Moreover, Cotswold is part of Gloucestershire. If the token were valid only in Cotswold, some passengers would want to use it elsewhere in Gloucestershire, to the chagrin of bus drivers :o

Peter

10 pence red  and 20 pence green added.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on November 18, 2013, 12:37:57 PM
Cotswold isn't in itself an administrative division. The area generally known as the Cotswolds includes parts of the counties of Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire, Worcestershire and Warwickshire. Some of those (certainly Gloucestershire) have sub-authorities that include the word "Cotswold" in their title.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 18, 2013, 12:55:51 PM
I would imagine the 'C' on this and the earlier listed Cannock Chase token would represent 'Concessionary'.

Search for Cotswold District Council (http://www.cotswold.gov.uk/) on Google says: Cotswold is a local government district in Gloucestershire in England. It is named after the wider Cotswolds region. Its main town is Cirencester.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 02:16:02 PM
Derby, of brass token fame, finally ran out of ammunition casing and went for plastic. O.A.P. means old age pensioner. Only a civil servant can think of a term that contains two thirds redundancy. ::)

Added two much bigger (29 mm) tokens: 3 p with the OAP reverse and 10 p with blank reverse

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 03:33:36 PM
North Dorset is in the South of England, North of Bournemouth, as UK Decimal + would know. :P This may have been the most horrid colour available to the district council :)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 04:15:10 PM
Eastleigh is curled around Southampton. Geographical names defy the compass in this part of the world. :)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 04:44:20 PM
Northavon was a district in the county of Avon from 1974 to 1996.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 09:54:34 PM
After decimalization, Edinburgh continued its bus token programme while it still could. The obverse is the same as the one shown here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23322.msg98433.html#msg98433).

Peter

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23322.0;attach=21422;image)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 10:14:14 PM
Glasgow, a social disaster area at this time, maintained its bus token programme.

Added two specimen of the green penny. Lighter token is slightly larger, it has a more pronounced edge rim and the arms are slightly smaller (compare the distance between the first T of TRANSPORT and the arms). What I find interesting is the field, which is completely smooth on the darker token and rough on the lighter one. I suspect that they were made with different production techniques.

Peter

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23322.0;attach=38711;image)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 10:28:26 PM
Grimsby-Cleethorpes. Another place that carried on after decimalization…

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 18, 2013, 11:06:04 PM
NO, UDC is not UK Decimal Coin, but Urban District Council. The Urban Districts were wiped out in 1974 by the local government act. Hornsea is a village near Hull, on the British East coast.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 20, 2013, 12:08:57 PM
What is the W.S.T.? I suppose the W. and T. are West Thorpe, but what is the S.?

The Smiths (1990) have this listed as England 685 BW.

Westthorpe is just one word which makes a little more sense of the WST.

Now the mine is closed and the area has become Westthorpe Hills. This countryside site where Westthorpe Colliery used to be is now transformed and is a great place for both people and wildlife. More here  (http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisure/countryside/countryside_sites/wildlife_amenity/westthorpe_hills/default.asp).
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 28, 2013, 04:37:21 PM
Nottingham, known in dee times for its oval tokens, mysteriously started using a pentagon (US military) and a hexagon (France) in pee times (note the word "new" in the denomination.) There must be a sublimal message somewhere… :)

The mystery deepens by a circle (1 p white) and a square (4 p blue)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 28, 2013, 05:16:08 PM
Here are the only tokens from Oxfordshire, which is where the UK hides half of its best rowers. ;) Note the different fonts used for the denomination.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 28, 2013, 05:46:30 PM
Evidence that plastic bus tokens are still with us: a Portsmouth pound with an expiry date in 2013! Too recent to be listed in Voice.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 28, 2013, 09:57:29 PM
Remarkably, the p-tokens of Plymouth still have the old arms (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg162598.html#msg162598)…

Added penny bronze colour and penny brass colour with different font.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 28, 2013, 11:46:51 PM
These are the arms of the county borough. New arms were granted in 1983. See this thread (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23322.msg156086.html#msg156086). I like the ice-cream colours. :)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 30, 2013, 01:00:04 PM
Ryedale's (North Yorkshire) contribution to this series. The fine, clear script appeals to me.

20 p sea green added.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 30, 2013, 06:25:37 PM
Interesting token from Staffordshire. It looks like the two halves of the mode shifted slightly. Note how, if you hold the token correctly, the cut out E is in the correct position on both sides.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 30, 2013, 06:48:19 PM
Stroud hadn't played its last card with this token. It crept up on a national transportation token you can see here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,6397.msg54110.html#msg54110).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 30, 2013, 08:00:23 PM
Thamesdown is both a borough (Swindon and surrounding area) and a bus company. The green of this token is part of the livery of the busses.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on November 30, 2013, 09:01:12 PM
No LIKE available button here, but a big thanks and BRAVO for all the photos and information about the many recent plastic tokens from all sorts of British local authorities. Keep them coming. Terrific.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 30, 2013, 10:28:34 PM
Thank you, Kushi. I am just your humble administrator, but I have fantastic friends all over the globe who help me.

Maybe you'll find the index handy. It needs more work, which I shall do in due time, but, together with the pictures, I think it allows further research.

For one thing, there is a pattern evolving where the late d-tokens were put together with generic reverses and what may have been a city seal. This means, that a patient type can sort out those generic reverses and maybe connect them to a token producer and maybe even a time period. Another point is the diameter, sometimes clearly non-decimal (22 mm = 7/8 inch and 25 mm = 1 inch), sometimes decimal (e.g. 20 mm). My guess is that they point at different machinery, made in Britain or elsewhere.

Mapping the places of issue might be useful as well. My working hypothesis is that you'll most often find them in big cities, industrial and mining centres and small ports: all having pockets of deep poverty. That again makes it strange that there are few or no bus tokens from Scotland (except Edinburgh and Glasgow), Northern Ireland (except Belfast) and Wales.

Another area that needs more work is the colours. It's relatively hard to read these tokens, especially in lamp light. They must have been difficult to check. Yet, there are surprising numbers of fixed colour/size/denomination combinations, such as 1 d, 22 mm, red. It looks like an open invitation to cheat…

I am hoping that one day someone will be inspired by this thread to dig into such issues and come up with answers and numbers.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 30, 2013, 11:46:11 PM
Warrington is on the river Mersey, not far from Liverpool and Manchester. The tokens have the pre-1974 arms.

5 p and 10 p added.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 01, 2013, 12:06:28 AM
It's nice when they are dated. Every year a new colour, I suppose. See also this post (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23322.msg54183.html#msg54183).

Added a 50p blue (2007) and orange (2008)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 01, 2013, 12:20:05 AM
Yorkshire Woollen District, presumably in its final iteration. You have to love the baby colours. :)

Penny brown added.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on December 01, 2013, 09:03:33 AM
Warrington is on the river Mersey, not far from Liverpool and Manchester. The tokens have the pre-1974 arms.

Peter

And they clearly can't speak English there, either. "One new pence", indeed...  ::)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 01, 2013, 09:17:16 AM
Seems one size fits all! cheapskates.  ::)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on December 10, 2013, 11:43:29 PM
Evidence that plastic bus tokens are still with us: a Portsmouth pound with an expiry date in 2013! Too recent to be listed in Voice.

Peter

See here - http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/portsmouth-council-criticised-for-scrapping-bus-tokens-for-disabled-passengers-1-5707780 (http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/portsmouth-council-criticised-for-scrapping-bus-tokens-for-disabled-passengers-1-5707780)
So the end of the Portsmouth ones.

The other recent issues in this thread -

Wokingham - ceased when funding was switched to mid tier local authorities in 2011.
http://wokinghamlibdems.org.uk/en/article/2011/480256/outrage-at-way-wokingham-travel-tokens-axed (http://wokinghamlibdems.org.uk/en/article/2011/480256/outrage-at-way-wokingham-travel-tokens-axed)

Basingstoke too it seems -
http://bdover55sforum.btck.co.uk/Campaigns/TravelConcessions (http://bdover55sforum.btck.co.uk/Campaigns/TravelConcessions)

I think that might just be it (for the moment at least)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 24, 2013, 04:25:50 AM
Now we go back to the early 20th century, before WW1 for this 32mm, bone brown printed token.

AVAILABLE ON METROPOLITAN ELECTRIC TRAMWAYS 1D; the reverse has an advertisement: SHOP HERE AND SAVE MONEY EDMONDS BROS., WOOD GREEN. with a view of a large building.

Smith 475AD describes it as white Celluloid but this is incorrect as it is definitely bone. the size too is 32 not 35mm.

He also includes the remarks "No. 9C Reed" no idea where this comes from! ...possibly its another collectors reference?  ???
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on December 24, 2013, 09:58:18 PM
I humbly believe the the Smiths listed a different token. Their piece must have had the No. 9C REED inscription and been 35 mm. I would seem unlikely that he made an error on both items.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 24, 2013, 10:10:57 PM
It is quite possible that the token quoted was 35mm as the size of the bone tokens does vary somewhat. These type of pieces are often mis-described as celluloid, plastic, ivory, etc.

 
Quote
....the reverse has an advertisement: SHOP HERE AND SAVE MONEY EDMONDS BROS., WOOD GREEN. with a view of a large building.

Edmonds Brothers Drapers were established at 102-112 High Road, Wood Green c. 1897. It later acquired Denham & Goyder who were located next door at 114-120 High Road to form Edmonds Denham & Goyder Ltd.

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 10, 2014, 01:40:19 AM
Two tokens from Booth & Fisher; a bus company, based in Eckington, that specialised in transporting miners.

BOOTH & FISHER K. P. Uniface, yellow plastic, 25.5mm. K. P. Kiveton Park Colliery was a coal mine in the village of Kiveton Park, near Rotherham, South Yorkshire, closed 1994.

BOOTH & FISHER R P K consimilar, yellow plastic, 22.2mm. R P K is from Renishaw Park Colliery. Closed 1989.  see Reply #198 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23322.msg162775.html#msg162775) and 199 for a history of the company.

See also   Reply #192 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23322.msg162704.html#msg162704)

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 10, 2014, 07:00:41 PM
It doesn't happen very often any more that we get to add a first token of a city, but Bradford wasn't in the data base yet. City seal and denomination are boringly standard. However, I like the motto on the ribbon below the armes that has a liberal (progress), conservative (industry) and socialist (humanity) part :)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 10, 2014, 07:25:20 PM
For my "punishment", here's another newcomer. In case you were wondering, the asclepius refers to the thermal sources of Buxton, used since Roman times by well developed Roman ladies, who gave the town its name. ;)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 11, 2014, 01:26:43 AM
Bradford Tramways penny fare. Black Fibre. The arms at top vary a little to the arms shown perhaps an earlier design. see Reply #238 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=23322.msg174392#msg174392)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 11, 2014, 01:35:41 AM
Bradford Corporation Passenger Transport halfpenny and penny, The arms at top vary a little to the arms shown perhaps an earlier design, while the penny is different again?.


These two may have been shown before.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 11, 2014, 12:05:13 PM
Aberdeen Corporation Transport 1d light blue; 3d yellow; 4d brown. all 22mm.

Added 6d dark green. Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 11, 2014, 01:02:35 PM
The South Wales Transport Co. Ltd. 1½d rev. County Borough of Swansea Police Brass, 29.5mm, 8.2g.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on April 11, 2014, 05:23:05 PM
Wow Mal

Great images. I have always found these very difficult to scan or photograph.

Keep up the great work.

Kushi
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 11, 2014, 08:02:20 PM
Grampian (better known as Roinn a' Mhonaidh ;)) was a local government region from 1975 to 1996. The logo with thistle was in use 1986-1996 (see discussion below).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 11, 2014, 08:51:59 PM
Both sides are the same. I think the C stands for concessionary rate. Darwen was subsumed in Blackburn in 1974.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 11, 2014, 09:26:42 PM
We already have a post on Glasgow tokens in decimal pence here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=23322.msg162894#msg162894), but this one deserves a place of its own, if only because it is unlisted in Voice. Both sides are the same. First Glasgow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Glasgow) serves the Greater Glasgow area. You are looking at an impressive 30 mm token.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on April 11, 2014, 09:43:40 PM
Grampian (better known as Roinn a' Mhonaidh ;)) was a local government region from 1975 to 1996.

Peter

More on GRT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grampian_Regional_Transport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grampian_Regional_Transport)
Privatised in 1989.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 11, 2014, 09:52:51 PM
Is the thistle a clue as to whether the token was used in the privatised or pre-privatised days?

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on April 11, 2014, 10:29:25 PM
According to this page - https://www.flickr.com/groups/1096314@N21/discuss/72157626082973972/ (https://www.flickr.com/groups/1096314@N21/discuss/72157626082973972/)

The logo came with the green and cream livery introduced in 1986- none of the older buses have the thistle, but all of the later ones do.  In 1996 this was switched to the first bus "f".
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 12, 2014, 11:18:55 AM
Much appreciated, andyg. This is now one of the best dated tokens.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 12, 2014, 12:10:51 PM
David Voice lists under Toy Tram/bus token a ½d FARE token for a toy conductors play set.

Here is the companion 1d FARE bracteate iron, 31.9mm.

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 12, 2014, 02:21:52 PM
Fine discovery token, Malcolm! Thank you. Voice says the halfpenny is tin.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 12, 2014, 02:28:56 PM
We have seen a few Urban District Council tokens, but here is one of a Rural District Council, its complement. It is fittingly functional and austere.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 12, 2014, 02:36:05 PM
Fine discovery token, Malcolm! Thank you. Voice says the halfpenny is tin.

Peter

Much heavier than tin at 6.4g and measures 1.2mm thick.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 13, 2014, 09:54:15 AM
Newbury is halfway between London and Bristol, but its bus network depended largely on nearby Reading.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 13, 2014, 10:54:21 AM
Rugeley may be a picturesque old town, it still needs busses and tokens for "assisted travel", bureaucratese for having someone put your wheelchair on and off the bus.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 13, 2014, 01:14:06 PM
A Stafford Borough Council issue. Not in Voice.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 13, 2014, 04:19:11 PM
Tayside was another region that existed only between 1975 and 1996. Its coat of arms is hard to find in colour.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 14, 2014, 11:10:49 AM
Tewkesbury has more history in its abbey alone than other towns of its size in all their buildings. The tokens are modern and functional, though.

Added 20p green.

Peter

edited to add:
Orange issue added, 24.8mm; we must find how they dated these. The orange is listed in Smith # 782BC putting it to pre-1990 - also in Voice
Malj1
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 16, 2014, 05:27:46 AM
Glasgow Corporation Transport has issued two varieties of the 2d black token, the normal type with the small CoA and another with a larger shield to the CoA and a much wider spaced legend. It is in fact a different CoA.

The reverse of the second piece has a slightly smaller 2d denomination. They measure 22.2mm and 22mm respectively.

I would imagine the possibility exists to find similar varieties in other values from Glasgow.

Added ½ penny blue-green, 1-½ d yellow, 3 d red and 4 d pink. The threppence looks like it was produced with a different technology. The D has no full stop. Figleaf
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 16, 2014, 09:39:09 PM
Witney Urban District Council used a surprisingly large (30 mm) fourpence.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on April 17, 2014, 01:31:22 PM
Whitney or Witney? Location please.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 17, 2014, 05:40:12 PM
No H. Witney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witney).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 17, 2014, 06:43:05 PM
Aberdare's ATC monogramme dates from pre-decimal times. The T is therefore likely to be for Tramways. Aberdare Tramways Corporation?

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on April 17, 2014, 09:20:52 PM
How about ACT = Aberdare Corporation Tramways?
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 17, 2014, 11:23:59 PM
See discussion here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=14711.msg161434#msg161434). T was changed from Tramways in Transport but logically, you can only have Aberdare Tramways Corporation (a public enterprise in Aberdare) or Aberdare Council Tramways (a service of the city council). The index will tell you at a glance that the Corporation formula was far more popular. Only London used the Council formula.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 17, 2014, 11:50:37 PM
Here are the Tramway tokens from Birmingham. The pre-decimal Transport, where you can see the arms and the common obverse, is here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23322.msg112450.html#msg112450). I have found three different arms sides:

I now have a belt and no belt variant of the 1½d green also. On the belt variant, the denomination is written with a dash. On the no belt variant it is written with a dash. The two are slightly different in colour.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on April 18, 2014, 12:40:27 AM
See discussion here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=23322.msg161434#msg161434). T was changed from Tramways in Transport but logically, you can only have Aberdare Tramways Corporation (a public enterprise in Aberdare) or Aberdare Council Tramways (a service of the city council). The index will tell you at a glance that the Corporation formula was far more popular. Only London used the Council formula.

Peter

Original name was Aberdare Urban District Council Tramways...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdare_Urban_District_Council_Tramways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdare_Urban_District_Council_Tramways)
Tramway closed 1935.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on April 18, 2014, 01:09:35 AM
A Stafford Borough Council issue. Not in Voice.

Peter

These date late 90's to c2001 - I used to have to count them and send to Stafford Borough to reclaim the money on behalf of the bus company I work for....
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 18, 2014, 03:23:52 AM
Voice is dated 2011. I am happy with the discovery token. :thumbsup:

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 30, 2014, 05:29:17 PM
Another series of Barrow-in-Furness tokens is here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg162441.html#msg162441). I suspect this design came later. The word "transport" is not on this type.

Added 1½d red, 2d light blue, 2½d brown, 4d grey.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on June 30, 2014, 11:42:53 PM
Voice assigns these tokens to Gateshead, but according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_General_Transport_Company), although the initiative was taken there, the first depot of the Northern General Transport Company was in Chester-le-Street and Gateshead was serviced by the Gateshead and District Tramways. Even curiouser is that the 3 pence and 4 pence are the same, except for the number in the denomination. Bus drivers must have had a hard time separating the two, especially after dark. I have two different shades of the 3-pence, bright red and dark red.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on June 30, 2014, 11:54:28 PM
According to Smith - these were issued by the Durham Education Committee for pupils travelling to the Shipcote girls school (closed 1964)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on June 30, 2014, 11:57:29 PM
Funny what you find when not looking...
This (http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/25th-july-1969/47/flat-fare-fails-but-tokens-stay) is all about the Sunderland token scheme (started 1966)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 01, 2014, 08:49:56 AM
Good info on the Sunderland token. It is indeed a bit odd, compared to the others. If I have read the Sunderland article correctly, the Northern General busses would do at least partially the same routes as the Sunderland busses. Both issued non-round tokens, but they were different in size and colour.

Wikipedia says Northern General expanded along the Newcastle-Gateshead-Chester-le-Street axis. Durham looks like a possibility at the outer edge only. Moreover, I can't imagine a token system for one school that is not even mentioned on the token, but I can easily imagine misreading how the school also used the tokens, so with all respect for Smith 2, I'll keep the mind open.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 01, 2014, 11:21:35 AM
Plenty of sheep in the Huddersfield arms, a textile town between Leeds and Manchester. Workers would have needed transportation to the job. Fortunately, they have high level support. The motto on the ribbon, Juvat impigros Deus, means god defends the diligent. So there.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 01, 2014, 11:33:17 AM
Maybe Hull has changed. What I remember is a gritty town, smelling of tar and rotting fish. A place where people know what it means to get a living out of the sea. The token (it's uncompromisingly black, but my scanner cannot handle that) is utilitarian. Both sides are the same. No flourishes, not even serifs. My kind of place.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on July 01, 2014, 08:46:52 PM
Good info on the Sunderland token. It is indeed a bit odd, compared to the others. If I have read the Sunderland article correctly, the Northern General busses would do at least partially the same routes as the Sunderland busses. Both issued non-round tokens, but they were different in size and colour.

The article states -
Quote
Admittedly, although tokens were not accepted on Northern General buses, the company did sell 12-journey tickets giving a similar discount.

Bus services were highly regulated until 1987 - so each company, be it municipal or commercial had their own "operating area", and if their routes strayed into another area (for example Northern running into Sunderland corporation area to serve the city) they were not allowed to board passengers.

Quote
It will be seen from the above that the token system is quite simple, administratively. (Representatives of Belfast City Transport recently inspected the Sunderland system.) As for the joint services in outer areas of the town, Sunderland Rural District—served by Northern group buses—was added to the County Borough on April 1, 1967.
However, the Northern group is now part of the NBC and under the Transport Act 1968, the group has the power to co-operate with neighbouring undertakings. Initially, talks are taking place with Northern concerning the acceptance of both tokens and SCT concessionary passes on joint services.

Nice comment about Belfast - they did indeed introduce a very similar token scheme....



More from 1972 here
http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/24th-november-1972/23/pte-fares-for-sunderland (http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/24th-november-1972/23/pte-fares-for-sunderland)

Quote
Despite a generous discount (16 per cent), the use of fare tokens was reported to be diminishing; the system is losing about £.100,000 a year and the PTE would like to see it abandoned.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on July 01, 2014, 08:55:16 PM
Wikipedia says Northern General expanded along the Newcastle-Gateshead-Chester-le-Street axis. Durham looks like a possibility at the outer edge only. Moreover, I can't imagine a token system for one school that is not even mentioned on the token, but I can easily imagine misreading how the school also used the tokens, so with all respect for Smith 2, I'll keep the mind open.

I would imagine the 3d was not in use at the same time as the 4d?
Durham education committee would have covered the county of Durham - not just Durham itself, Gateshead itself was in Durham county.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 01, 2014, 10:20:09 PM
I think in this particular case Sunderland and Northern General did operate the same routes. From your linked article:

Quote
after some friction between Northern and SCT it was agreed that the two undertakings should operate on a 50:50 basis.

Quote
there was little incentive for people living on some of the outer estates to buy tokens worth 3.3d when the cash fare was only 4d and the first bus to come along was just as likely to be a "Northern" anyway.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on July 01, 2014, 11:02:10 PM
the full quote is thus :

Quote
In 1951 Sunderland extended its boundaries quite considerably, and new housing estates were built beyond the old boundaries. The Northern General group of companies claimed that they should serve the new housing areas as they had been built in -Northern territory" and after some friction between Northern and SCT it was agreed that the two undertakings should operate on a 50:50 basis.

I read that it is only from said Northern housing estates that the 50/50 would apply.
Such pooling agreements were common - hence the "North Midland Transport Pool" which we still have not found out anything about!
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on July 01, 2014, 11:36:41 PM
See discussion here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=14711.msg161434#msg161434). T was changed from Tramways in Transport but logically, you can only have Aberdare Tramways Corporation (a public enterprise in Aberdare) or Aberdare Council Tramways (a service of the city council). The index will tell you at a glance that the Corporation formula was far more popular. Only London used the Council formula.

Peter

[Link doesn't work][link repaired]

Just received the Cox book which states:

The monogram ACT stands for Aberdare Council Tramways and which was already in place on the tunic buttons.

The tokens were first issued 1917 and continued in use, even though the trams stopped running in 1935, until they were replaced by the decimal issue in 1971.

The date of the 6d introduction has not been determined but was probably 1923/4.


Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 04, 2014, 03:53:00 PM
A series of 22.225mm (7/8th inch) tokens from Leigh is here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg162561.html#msg162561). These are 25mm (1 inch) tokens.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 04, 2014, 05:21:27 PM
Morecambe and Heysham have grown together on the Lancashire coast, near Lancashire, but Morecambe has a shopping centre (the parking is almost empty on Google earth, making it look a bit sad), so it comes first.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 16, 2014, 11:45:19 PM
Southend-on-sea is a serious town near Benfleet, where Norsemen and Saxons once bloodily clobbered each other for control of the mouth of the Thames. Yet, somehow, my brain keeps telling me Walmington-on-sea, where once, the Home Guard and the ARP were bad-mouthing each other for control of the vicar. :)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 17, 2014, 12:29:11 AM
West Bromwich is a former miner's town. Its name will sound familiar to soccer enthusiasts. Here's how the miners got to work, in fruity colours.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on July 17, 2014, 12:50:12 AM
Southend-on-sea is a serious town near Benfleet, where Norsemen and Saxons once bloodily clobbered each other for control of the mouth of the Thames. Yet, somehow, my brain keeps telling me Walmington-on-sea, where once, the Home Guard and the ARP were bad-mouthing each other for control of the vicar. :)

Peter

When I was a schoolboy we knew this as Southend on mud, it is on the Thames estuary, mostly mud rather than sand, you could walk a mile or so out to sea with the water not reaching to you knees, hence the reason for the longest pier in England - 1.34 miles.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Sir_John_Betjeman_Train_On_Southend_Pier.jpg/220px-Sir_John_Betjeman_Train_On_Southend_Pier.jpg)

this pier has its own railway, see Southend Pier Railway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southend_Pier_Railway) but I am unaware if any tokens were used.

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 17, 2014, 01:10:13 PM
Southport seems to have had some doubts about decimalisation. It simply took the D off the pre-decimal token, but didn't add a P. The pre-decimal tokens are here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg64481.html#msg64481).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 17, 2014, 01:34:04 PM
Wodan's dyke was a simple version of Hadrian's wall. The district existed from 1974 to 1996.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 18, 2014, 12:15:48 AM
Here is an exceptional set of school tokens from Barrow-in-Furness. Voice mentions a colour variation of the tuppence, but otherwise, this series is complete. I like the little ink stain on the penny. :)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 20, 2014, 12:50:15 PM
The Derby tramways operated 1904-1934.

The tokens in this post are from the collection of malj1. The other side is blank. The brass three-halfpence is 26mm (R5) = 50 to 120 known. Smith 240AB

Malcolm & Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 20, 2014, 12:50:48 PM
The holes are part of the design, not a cancellation. The other side is blank. The round tuppence has nice signs of brockage. For decimal tokens, see this post (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg162837/topicseen.html#msg162837).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 20, 2014, 12:51:25 PM
The aluminium three halfpence are from Malcolm's collection. The size of the denomination on the Derby aluminium halfpence is different. My two can be see together for comparison. first @ 23.9mm second @ 24.2mm

The pink plastic three-halfpenny token was issued for use during WW2. Both sides are the same. It's actually a much darker pink, but my scanner has great problems with this shade.

Malcolm & Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 20, 2014, 01:38:43 PM
Derby Omnibus education and employee tokens.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on July 20, 2014, 11:17:19 PM
I recently obtained the following seven tokens that should be added to the WoC UK local transportation tokens index.

Cotswold District Council, 40p, pale green, round, consimilar.
Eastleigh Borough Council, GBP 1, pale violet, round, expiry 31-08-06.
North Avon Disrict Council, 50p, orange, heptagonal, letter N stencil-cut.
Stroud District Council, 50p, orange, heptagonal, letter S stencil-cut.
West Berkshire, 25p, yellow, round, letters WB stencil cut, valid 2009-10.
West Berkshire, 25p, violet, round, letters WB stencil cut, valid 2010-11.
West Berkshire, GBP 1, pale green, round, letters WB stencil cut, valid 2011-12.

Sadly, I'm not proficient at scanning or photographing plastic tokens.


Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 07, 2014, 06:49:32 PM
The old arms of Rotherham county borough are a complicated affair. It is not clear where the cannon are coming from. The three deer are a reference to the Arms of the Archbishops of Rotherham. The bridge represents the ancient bridge at Rotherham. It also refers to the Old Southwark Bridge, built by Rotherham iromasters, and the Bailey bridge, invented by a Rotherham man. Mercury's staff with the odd hand on top symbolises commerce. For the tokens with post-1947 arms, see here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg156086.html#msg156086).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 08, 2014, 01:53:30 AM
the cannon refer to the iron works located in around Rotherham, especially that of Samuel and Aaron Walker.

A large foundry was erected at the Holmes, in which they made almost all kinds of castings, and by 1757, thanks to a contract obtained by Charles Watson-Wentworth, Marquis of Rockingham, large quantities of cannon were being produced for the American War of Independence; mills worked by water wheels, for the turning and boring cannon; forges and mills, not only at the Holmes, but at Thrybergh and Conisbrough.

(http://www.rotherhamweb.co.uk/h/images/scannon.jpg)
Walker Cannon

 Source (http://www.rotherhamweb.co.uk/h/122.htm) for much more detail on this.


Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 09, 2014, 04:44:03 PM
Note the word TRANSPORT. For the Tramways series of South Shields and the arms, see this post (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg162725.html#msg162725).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 09, 2014, 07:15:01 PM
Stockton-on-Tees is a shipbuilding town. That probably explains the no-nonsense look of this token, that - following local usage - dispenses with the Tees. The C in corporation sticks out a little below the baseline. El-cheapo designer, Stockton? ;)

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 17, 2014, 06:11:41 AM
An unlisted BUS PASS for the N.C.B. NORTH DERBYS AREA

NV,yellow plastic 31.7mm

Two other N.C.B. types are listed for Waleswood motor bus # Sheffield 685 BD/BE and BH

Another possibility is the Chesterfield issue # 170 CA thru CD for Flint Glap See North Derbyshire Collieries (http://www.oldminer.co.uk/Mining/Collieries.htm) [almost halfway down page]

(http://www.oldminer.co.uk/Mining/Collieries_files/image167.png)
Copyright and Owner Mark Smith.

FLINT GLAP - Orange plastic, same design both sides. These tokens were used by miners in the Bolsover travelling to Glapwell Colliery on the private miners' bus service run by Mrs. E Flint of Carr Vale. Certainly in use in 1967 but withdrawn from use c.1970.  ...The Smiths cat., says this bus was run by Mrs Flint for the N.C.B.

Also shown there and mentioned:

White Plastic Glapwell Colliery Checks - These are similar to many other plastic checks I have from the North Derbyshire area. But how were they used?

I feel this could well be a bus pass too.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 17, 2014, 11:16:37 AM
No doubt about the North Derbyshire bus pass. Very nice find!

No doubt either on the Flint Glap token. The explanation given is convincing. The Derbyshire Miners Association piece is pretty likely a bus token (could be a co-op restaurant token, but I don't see miners coming up just for lunch.)

I do have doubts on the Thorne and the five remaining Glapwell tokens. In their favour, the layout resembles that of the North Derbyshire token. However, there is no mention of transport or NCB or another Miners' union, but the mine is mentioned. It is quite possible that they were identity tags issued by the mine administration (hence the name of the mine) as a crude but effective way to keep track of who was in the mine. The miner would, depending on how the administration wanted the system to operate, either take them upon entry and give them back when leaving the mine or he would yield them on entry and take it back on leaving. Fire brigades had a similar system to keep track of who was in a burning building.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 17, 2014, 11:52:10 AM
Most of the others in the image are mining pieces and only included as I had just uploaded the entire image from that link to show the Flint Glap token which I have been seeking for years; but the white Glapwell Colliery is one I think could well be another bus pass although it does not say so explicitly.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 17, 2014, 02:10:16 PM
The similarity between the white plastic Glapwell token and the round brass Glapwell token leads me to believe that the two have the same function.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: africancoins on September 17, 2014, 08:47:50 PM
The brass "COLLIERY" pieces with a stamped number (and hole) were for uses within the colliery.... mainly for checking in and out of the working area. Each miner had pieces with a different stamped number...

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 27, 2014, 02:46:02 PM
I have shown the 1½d Fibre Sheffield Transport Department token before (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg138331.html#msg138331), but here it is again alongside two varieties of the Sheffield Corporation Tramways 1½d that are also in Fibre

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8729582/screenshots/Epa7992%20-%20Copy.jpg)

The first is a dark grey possible due to age or wear but on the second pale grey piece the halfpenny on the reverse has a distinctly different half, especially seen in the figure 1
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on November 15, 2014, 10:24:44 PM
It looks like an early (first world war?) tram token, but I can't find it. Judging from the oxidation, it is iron. What looks white on the scan is actually shiny: recent scratch. Bracteate strike, i.e. the reverse is the same, incuse and in mirror image; flan is extremely thin. About 32 mm.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 15, 2014, 11:11:11 PM
See Reply #230 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg174476.html#msg174476) for a very similar 1d FARE token for a toy conductors play set.

A different '1d' in the penny denomination otherwise almost identical, including size.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 25, 2014, 01:31:23 PM
Here is the complete run of Wallasey Corporation Motor Bus tokens.

Notice the various dies, such as the gap between MOTOR and BUSES, as well as the different colours; some of the blue 2d and the red 4d have been highlighted with paint, perhaps some of the drivers couldn't read these in poor light.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 16, 2014, 05:41:32 AM
Shipley & District Tramways / Joseph Speight Proprietor 1d brass 25.8mm

See WoT (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Shipley_%26_District_Tramways)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on December 16, 2014, 10:44:34 AM
Very nice - our first entry in the earlier sections.

But I expect to get a few more sorted before Christmas.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: redwine on December 25, 2014, 06:17:59 PM
A couple of concessionaries for you - 3p
Maidenhead & Cookham
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 25, 2014, 07:08:14 PM
Why not write them up in the Wiki, redwine?

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: redwine on December 25, 2014, 07:35:29 PM
Why not write them up in the Wiki, redwine?

Not my thing Peter.
But if I owe anyone (particularly Andy  :-[) and if they want them they are welcome  ;D
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: redwine on December 25, 2014, 07:48:23 PM
Which reminds me, is there a UK transport token hub I can send unwanted UK transport tokens to as i don't collect them?
Likewise, perhaps there should be other hubs to enable people to send unwanted tokens on to other collectors in their spheres.
Sorry, kids are watching telly loudly!  Can't think straight.  And I've drunk a little too much in the extended lunchtime............ ::)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on December 26, 2014, 12:42:29 AM
Which reminds me, is there a UK transport token hub I can send unwanted UK transport tokens to as i don't collect them?

Probably me - although I don't actually collect them myself......
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on December 26, 2014, 01:42:04 PM
The Transport Ticket Society of the UK includes a Ticket Distributions program that has a separate token section.

http://www.transport-ticket.org.uk/

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: redwine on December 26, 2014, 03:14:16 PM
Thanks for that  ;D but I'll think I'll pass them on to Andy when I find something he wants/needs.......
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 24, 2015, 01:32:34 AM
Another N.C.B. bus pass added to WoT (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/National_Coal_Board) similar to that in Reply #279 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg184240.html#msg184240) but this time in pale blue.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 24, 2015, 10:37:09 AM
The Transport Ticket Society of the UK includes a Ticket Distributions program that has a separate token section.

Thank you. I contacted them.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: plasticman on March 08, 2015, 02:32:32 PM
A recent addition is this token. The reverse looks just like the Glasgow Tramways 1/2d token but the obverse has G.C.L.R. about which I can find nothing. I thought that L.R. might be Light Railway but no record of such a thing in Glasgow, the only similar reference was to Gloucester Corporation Light Railways, which did exist but I cannot find any reference to tokens.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 08, 2015, 11:30:45 PM
The Smiths had anticipated a further volume regarding the railway tokens, unfortunately the elder Smith died and the idea was shelved. Possibly this was held over for that book if indeed they knew of it.

I have found some information on the company [if indeed it is this] but no tokens. = Gloucester Corporation Light Railways: 7 May 1904 to 11 Jan 1933.

Under the Gloucester Corporation Light Railways Order, 1903, electric light railways have been constructed in place of the old horse tramways, and, with extensions within the city, making a total of 7 miles of route and 12 miles of single track. The Corporation have also leased the light railways constructed under the County of Gloucester (Gloucester and Brockworth) Light Railways Order, 1903 (2 miles of route and about 2½ miles of single track), which are run in connection with the city light railways.
 Source (http://places.wishful-thinking.org.uk/GLS/Gloucester/Kelly1923.html)

This page is under construction. http://www.trackbed.com/companies/g/company_gclr.htm (http://www.trackbed.com/companies/g/company_gclr.htm) so a return visit is called for.

Image 1 / 2   Tram Ticket,Gloucester Corporation Light Railways, 1 1/2d, Advert: Well-Bred Bread, D Smith, Serial No 0194
Image 2 / 2   Tram Ticket,Gloucester Corporation Light Railways, 1 1/2d, Advert: Well-Bred Bread, D Smith, Serial No 0194
 Source (http://www.gbticket.com/detalhe_produto.php?codproduto=1562&codcategoriaproduto=143=)

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 08, 2015, 11:34:29 PM
APPENDIX VII.

Extracts from a typical Order of the " tramway type " made under the Light Railways Act 1896.

GLOUCESTER CORPORATION LIGHT RAILWAYS ORDER 1903.

Order authorising the construction of Light Railways in the City of Gloucester. WHEREAS an application was in November 1899 (hereinafter referred to as " the application of 1899 ") duly made to the Light Railway Commissioners by the City of Gloucester Tramways Company Limited in pursuance of the Light Railways Act 1896 for an Order to authorise the construction of light railways including Railways (No. i) (No. IA) (No. 2) (No. 3) and (No. 4) hereinafter described AND WHEREAS by the Gloucester Tramways Order 1878 and the City of Gloucester Tramways Order 1895 the said Company were authorised to construct and maintain certain tramways AND WHEREAS the light railways by this Order authorised will be partly constructed upon the roads now occupied by the said tramways and will render necessary the removal of the same AND WHEREAS the Mayor Aldermen and Citizens of the City of Gloucester in the County of the City of Gloucester (hereinafter called " the Corporation ") have in pursuance of Section 44 of the Tramways Act 1870 and with the consent of the Board of Trade agreed to purchase the said tramways and it has also been agreed between the said Company and the Corporation that this Order shall be granted to the Corporation AND WHEREAS an application was in May 1902 (hereinafter referred to as " the application of 1902 ") duly made to the Light Railway Commissioners by the Corporation in pursuance of the Light Railways Act 1896 for an Order to authorise the Corporation to construct light railways including the light railways hereinafter described as Railways (No. i) (No. JA) (No. 2) (No. 3) (No. 4) (No. 5) and (No. 6) AND WHEREAS the Corporation for the purpose of affording a more convenient termination of the line have applied for powers to construct the extensions hereinafter described as Railways (No. 2A) and (No. 2B) and have given public notice of the same by advertisement and by deposit of plans AND WHEREAS the Order authorises the Corporation to contract for the working running over and user of certain light railways outside the area of the City and in accordance with section 3 of the said Act if has been proved to the satisfaction of the Board of Trade that such working running over or user of the said light railways by the Corporation is expedient in the interests of the said City and the Board are also of opinion that the expenditure of the Corporation is so limited by this Order as not to exceed such amount as will bear due proportion to the benefit which may be expected to accrue to the said City from the working running over or user of the said light railways NOW we the Light Railway Commissioners being satisfied after local inquiry of the expediency of granting the said application including the said extensions do in pursuance of the Light Railways Act 1896 and by virtue and in exercise of the powers thereby vested in and of every other power Preamble. enabling us in this behalf ORDER as follows: Preliminary.

Short title.

i. This Order may be cited as " The Gloucester Corporation Light Railways Order 1903 " and shall come into force on the date on which it is confirmed by the Board of Trade.

Source (http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Permanent_Way_for_Tramways_Street_Railways_1000882222/235)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 09, 2015, 12:06:06 AM
Phew. I have been looking into the rump commonwealth (Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa). Problem being that in modern times, "light railway" is a term that covers a very specific mode of transportation that hadn't been invented yet when there were 1½ penny fares. I even found a Gold Coast Light Railway in Australia, but it didn't fit the denomination of the token. Now that the 1903 docs Mal found use the term light railway, I am convinced that the answer is Gloucester, UK.

The term may well be a reflection of the situation. Around 1900, there was a movement to electrify horse tram lines and take over private lines by city corporations. However, there was no provision for electric trams in the law, so each city had to be mandated by a separate act of parliament. This could easily have led to the use of different terminology in different places. In the end, light railway lost and tramway won.

Can we use your picture in "World of Tokens", the bus and tram tokens wiki?

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 09, 2015, 01:26:30 AM
 The act confirmed by the Board of Trade: London Gazette Aug 14 1903 page 5152

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: plasticman on March 09, 2015, 10:59:37 AM
Excellent research. I can see that a visit to Gloucester is called for !
Yes, very happy to have the images used.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 09, 2015, 11:43:15 AM
That could be a big help, see this page (http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=NaviTree.tcl&dsqField=RefNo&dsqItem=GBR/3/6/34#HERE)

These records are only available by a personal visit to the Gloucestershire Archives.

I have downloaded the images, see how we go.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on March 11, 2015, 08:10:38 PM
Phew. I have been looking into the rump commonwealth (Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa). Problem being that in modern times, "light railway" is a term that covers a very specific mode of transportation that hadn't been invented yet when there were 1½ penny fares.

I grew up in the village of Kinver, Staffordshire, to which there was, between 1901 and 1930, a rail-borne transport connection from the nearby Black Country. In common parlance this railway was universally known as the tram, but its official name was the Kinver Light Railway. Although it shared the tram tracks at its easterly end it was a private company and separate from the corporation trams in Amblecote. As far as I know the KLR did not issue tokens, but it could easily have done and they could easily have been for threehalfpence.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 11, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
Today, a light railway is more likely to share train tracks than tram tracks. It may or may not need high platforms, though. An example of train tracks and low platforms is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RijnGouweLijn). The Paris area RER (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RER) is an example of train tracks and high platforms.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 11, 2015, 09:31:13 PM
One of Melbourne's [Australia] railway lines was taken from the rail network and converted to tram operation in the late 1980's. see more her (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Kilda_railway_line)e
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on March 11, 2015, 10:21:27 PM
One of Melbourne's [Australia] railway lines was taken from the rail network and converted to tram operation in the late 1980's. see more her (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Kilda_railway_line)e

Likewise Angeredsbanan in Gothenburg (Swedish Wikipedia (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeredsbanan); includes a link to the English page on Göteborgs Spårvägar which mentions it in passing), which was converted to tram use 1969-1972 after the railway was closed. A peculiarity is that the trams have to swap sides (https://www.google.se/maps/@57.7683423,12.0222909,125m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=sv) at the join between the conventional tram network and the converted railway. Trams drive on the right in Sweden, like other road traffic, while trains drive on the left. Angeredsbanan has central platforms, meaning that trams designed for right-hand traffic can use left-hand traffic rail lines.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 11, 2015, 10:37:12 PM
I think you could pick up the tram and rotate it 90 degrees to make it operate correctly?   >:D
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on March 12, 2015, 06:49:26 PM
I think you could pick up the tram and rotate it 90 degrees to make it operate correctly?   >:D

90 degrees? :o

I've never really understood why Gbg's trams aren't double-ended like many trains are, so that the driver just has to walk to the other end of the vehicle to drive it the other way. Instead there are turning loops at termini and a few other places; otherwise, the trams can reverse but it involves quite a lot of hassle, not to mention checking that there's nothing in the rather large blind spot that something the length of a tram has.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 12, 2015, 07:24:38 PM
You don't actually have to pick 'em up. More info here (http://www.genzelbahn.nl/draaischijf.html).

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 12, 2015, 08:38:31 PM
Yes of course I should have said 180 degrees. I have seen the train turntables.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BzDWyPb8g5o/VQF4jh7sVLI/AAAAAAAAKiI/PXX5M9UqrYk/w1109-h833-no/2015-02-23%2B11.07.33.jpg)

But our trams have doors on both sides.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on March 13, 2015, 11:01:44 PM
The problem with having doors on both sides is that it reduces the seating capacity significantly.

Some of the trams still in use in Gbg date from before the switch to right-hand traffic in 1967 and were modified after construction to cope. Instead of retaining the 'old' left-side doors while adding right-side doors, the old doors were replaced with normal wall panels and windows.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 13, 2015, 11:34:52 PM
That is not a problem as here they are taking a lot of seats out to increase the capacity for standing passengers, likewise with the trains. All due to a huge increase of people using the public transport system since the increased cost of petrol over the last few years.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: plasticman on March 20, 2015, 04:15:21 PM
I spent a happy day at the Gloucester Archives yesterday where they have a several documents related to the Gloucester Corporation Light Railways, but nothing that refers directly to tickets or tokens. Several documents refer to 'Fares' stating that they should not exceed 1D per mile and that 'workmen' should travel cheaper so it is likely that a 1/2 D fare did exist. So I think its status is still 'Possibly'.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 20, 2015, 05:24:51 PM
Well, everything we know fits Gloucester, so the Sherlock Holmes reasoning applies: when you have discarded the impossible and the unlikely, what remains must be truth. Glad about your on-site research. It's by far the best way to knowledge. Maybe you can find more information through these people (http://www.gloshistory.org.uk/association.php)?

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: plasticman on March 20, 2015, 06:46:42 PM
This will be my next enquiry. In fact the archive staff were quite interested in the project and made quite a few other suggestions too. 'Watch this space, but don't hold your breath' applies.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 20, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
There is also the possibility that the ½d fare could be for a child.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 05, 2015, 12:04:39 PM
A token for use by employees of the North Eastern Gas Board, whilst on duty, loaded today to the WoT site - our first piece there on the gas board page.

Smith attributes to Wakefield. ...was this the only location?

This rather special piece in orange plastic for 2½d is also shown below.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: plasticman on May 05, 2015, 12:42:25 PM
I went to the Vestry House museum in Walthamstow (near London) last week and spied a token on display. Similar to Smith number Walthamstow 815 PA but with 'W.U.D.C.' instead of 'W.B.C.'. Sorry about the image but taken through glass in a gloomy room on my mobile phone - there's a moral there somewhere!
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 05, 2015, 01:19:09 PM
A great find, but that's my quibble with museums, you can't have it!  ::)

Presumably uniface like the other in Smith which incidentally I notice is square.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 18, 2015, 09:19:03 AM
From plasticman the following paragraph about the introduction of Celluloid tokens in Manchester...

...the Gloucestershire Chronicle dated September 3rd 1904 so this exactly dates the first celluloid Manchester tokens.

I have enhanced the cutting somewhat but its still a little indistinct.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 18, 2015, 09:39:47 AM
David Voice lists under Toy Tram/bus token a ½d FARE token for a toy conductors play set. 25.5mm.

Made from a much lighter gauge tin [which should correctly be called tinned iron] than the penny.

See Reply #230 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg174476.html#msg174476) and Reply #285 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg187957.html#msg187957) for the penny.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 20, 2016, 11:19:17 AM
An unlisted Derby corporation omnibuses 1½d prepaid. Brass 23.1mm

Unlike all the other pieces shown here this one does not have an inner circle near the rim.

The normal 1½d at 23.9mm is shown below.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 20, 2016, 11:55:50 AM
Or... has it been cut down from the larger token? brass 26mm

...or struck on a small blank?   ???
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 23, 2016, 09:45:45 AM
NEWPORT CORPORATION TRANSPORT EMPLOYEES TRAVEL PERMIT REV. 514 stamped out celluloid sheet 50mm.

You can go anywhere you like but not on service 30  :o
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 23, 2016, 11:10:07 AM
That makes it pre-1986. However, I have not been able to establish when Newport Corporation Tramways became Newport Corporation Transport. I suspect it was somewhere in the thirties.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 23, 2016, 12:09:27 PM
Before 1973 issue when 550 BA N.C.T. was Newport CITY Transport.

Five types of the EMPLOYEES TRAVEL PERMIT are listed in Smith; my one above is 550 PG

Newport Corporation Tramways
From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_Corporation_Tramways)
Open    9 April 1903
Close    5 September 1937
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: plasticman on April 25, 2016, 06:54:17 PM
The red version is nice, 550PI, I have another red one numbered 578. Just to add another, 550PD which appeared to replace the brass version.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 26, 2016, 01:35:32 AM
The 1937 date is when the Tramway network was closed. The name change may have been earlier.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 24, 2016, 04:30:22 AM
I swear every Glasgow 2 STAGE token I see is different.

However this one is most decidedly so.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: plasticman on May 28, 2016, 05:34:53 PM
It looks to me as though the impression is too shallow, which suggests too cold when moulding or not enough pressure. Has anyone published a list of variants on this common token I wonder? Quite apart from massive colour variations, I have just looked at 8 in my collection. The foot of the '2' varies, also the position of the top of the arms with the first 'o' in 'corporation'. I am sure that there are other variants too.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 28, 2016, 11:59:30 PM
I should have mentioned both side of that one are incuse but only partly so, rather like the letters are in outline. Yes if too cold the letters wouldn't have been filled I imagine.

Yes we have made an attempt at a list of variants previously but Peter's and my own ideas differed a little.

See First attempt at a typology of Glasgow 2 stage tokens  (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,32548.msg205647.html#msg205647)

Also here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg131737.html#msg131737)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on June 24, 2016, 07:53:18 AM
Halifax Corporation Tramways Lavatory No.240 uniface Brass 31.2mm

Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on July 08, 2016, 08:41:28 AM
An unlisted Derby Corporation Omnibuses 1½d in copper. 23.2mm

See Reply #325 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,14711.msg218077.html#msg218077) for some brass examples.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: africancoins on July 09, 2016, 12:22:55 AM
I am not convinced that is not just heavy toning due to the piece having been in a certain type of ground....

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on July 09, 2016, 01:08:02 AM
Definitely copper as I scraped the edge slightly to reveal the pink colour.

Posted it on Facebook Transportation Tokens Collectors Group too where it was confirmed by Alan Judd who also has one.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 09, 2016, 01:58:23 AM
Very interesting, Malcolm, but also mysterious. Bus drivers would be confused by the different colour of the token (a variety of World of Tokens DCO.0015a, it would seem) yet your token seems to have circulated. So was this a production error or a well-considered decision? As there seem very few around and this is the only denomination known in bronze an error seems more likely.

It seems too well made and of too low a value to be a contemporary counterfeit and a modern counterfeiter would have used the correct metal and would likely have picked an older type with an attractive picture. So why was it accepted? Was it maybe already sold in some quantity before the error was discovered and declared valid to simplify things? As it is less than 100 years old, there may be a paper trail or a local museum that actually answers its email...

In any case, it would be good to have it in WoT. Could Alan Judd be persuaded to contribute his knowledge to WoT?

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on July 26, 2016, 06:33:27 AM
A Paisley District Tramways Co. hexagonal aluminium ½d uploaded to WoT today.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on July 26, 2016, 09:34:22 AM
A magnificent token, well preserved with impressive detail! A worthy addition to our catalogue of these tokens. Paisley is close enough to Glasgow to imagine the need for a tramway, even when the local textile industry, imitating Mughal and Persian motives, was flourishing.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on July 26, 2016, 09:58:44 AM
Paisley was very near the Royal ordnance factory at Georgetown which operated filling shells in WW1, employing 10,000 people, so quite possibly the tramway would have been of great benefit.

It closed in 1919 but another was opened at Bishopton at the commencement of WW2. My uncle was transferred there in 1940 but died in the Flu epidemic of 1941.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 12, 2016, 01:32:12 PM
Accrington Corporation Steam Tramways Co. 3d zinc. 30.6mm
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 12, 2016, 01:49:45 PM
With a little help from World of Tokens (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Accrington), this one can be dated 1885 - 1907. Voice says it also exists in brass.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 12, 2016, 02:44:14 PM
The Smiths only list it in brass
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on August 12, 2016, 02:53:32 PM
There was an addenda to the Smith's book with a few corrections. This was one of them.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 12, 2016, 03:01:45 PM
That's good to know.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Kushi on August 12, 2016, 04:16:19 PM
The 2004 AVA Supplement to the Smiths 1990 catalogue lists a white metal example (copper-nickel). There is nothing from Accrington in the 2013 AVA Supplement.

No zinc piece has been reported to the best of my knowledge.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 12, 2016, 04:58:01 PM
If it just says "white metal", that may be zinc.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 13, 2016, 12:43:21 AM
It is in some kind of white metal  ??? ...and this description covers a multitude of metals but it doesn't necessarily mean cupro-nickel (which it certainly isn't) just that it is not brass or copper.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: scroggs on September 15, 2016, 09:25:29 PM
Lothian Regional Transport Tokens prob between 1985- 2000 when they had the LRT logo
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 15, 2016, 09:38:17 PM
Wow, scroggs. Not in WoT (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Lothian_Regional_Transport). Can we use your pics? What is the size of the awesome foursome? Or do you want to add them yourself?

Mind that there is a period where LRT stood for Lothian Regional Transport (1975-1985) and a period where it meant Lothian Region Transport (1986-2000). Do you have background information that shows what the logo means? The ones we do have are all Regional, rather than Region and one of those has the same logo.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on September 15, 2016, 11:55:02 PM
These are all 22mm I think.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 16, 2016, 01:40:50 AM
I have the 25p  8) 22.6mm
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: scroggs on September 17, 2016, 03:27:10 PM
please use the photos of the LRT tokens for WoT. I dont know how to upload them.
 they are all 22.6mm dia .
 
as for the logo dating i found this

The Transport Act 1985 deregulated bus services in Great Britain and required that municipal bus operations be run as commercial companies rather than as public service departments. Therefore, on 26 October 1986 the operation became Lothian Region Transport plc, better known by its initials 'LRT', a company wholly owned by Lothian Regional Council.

On 1 April 1996 Lothian Regional Council was abolished. Although the then Conservative government had sought to have the company privatised, this was resisted by local politicians and ownership the company passed to the new City of Edinburgh Council and the three neighbouring councils. The LRT identity remained until January 2000, when the company was renamed Lothian Buses plc, the LRT logo changing to 'Lothian'.
taken from http://uktransport.wikia.com/wiki/History_of_Lothian_Buses

I also have this token from Aberdeen which isnt in WoT either


Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on September 17, 2016, 03:40:12 PM
as for the logo dating i found this

5p issued October 1991, 10p May 1990 and 50p was first issued 1st June 1995...

There is an addenda to the Smiths catalogue, which I now have - but have not yet added the tokens to WOC.  I made a start this morning!
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Special:RecentChanges (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Special:RecentChanges)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Rodan61 on March 09, 2017, 09:53:29 PM
Wallsend 812AB
THE TYNESIDE TRAMWAYS & TRAMROADS COMPANY / 1d :)
Antonio
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 13, 2017, 09:08:03 AM
Nice one, Antonio. Have you visited World of Tokens (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/UK_Transport_tokens) (WoT) yet? You'll like the Swedish and UK transport token sections. You're free to start a section yourself or to contribute to existing sections. Let us know if you need help.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Rodan61 on March 15, 2017, 04:43:55 PM
Thanks Peter, I am very interested in the Swedish transport tokens but I cannot find the link at the WoT. Antonio
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Rodan61 on March 15, 2017, 05:16:13 PM
I found the link!  ;D ..... I have yet to discover the whole site.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 15, 2017, 09:57:30 PM
Have fun! there is a lot to discover there and we are still building and hoping for more contributions.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: andyg on March 18, 2017, 04:24:53 PM
Some while ago I found what might have been an unlisted token with "WYPTE Leeds District" and "Sov. St."
We knew Sovereign Street was the site of a bus depot, but it's use remained uncertain.  This last week I acquired a few more (pictured below) - one of which still has a metal ring attached.  I now think the purpose of these items to be key rings, to tell whoever had the keys what they were for,  Drivers of buses would likely have had keys for toilets or break areas, possibly even late turn keys to let them in the gates for the depot at the end of their shift - perhaps we'll never know.  It is unlikely though that these are tokens....
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on March 18, 2017, 06:53:24 PM
Excellent stuff, andyg. No tokens, indeed, but that was doubtful to begin with in view of the holes. Still, part of the bus/plastic love affair and arguably part of the story of the tokens.

I am wondering if the plastics may not have been chipped, in other words, they WERE the keys: you'd hold them against the lock and buzzz - open sesame. It would be a handy safety measure in the sense that the system could be made aware which key-hangers no longer had right of access, e.g. in case of loss, retirement or job change. It would also explain the address on them.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: plasticman on March 18, 2017, 07:04:00 PM
They are clearly made out of plastic and that suggests thousands (or hundreds at least) because you wouldn't create a mould for a handful of copies. Does this fit in with your thoughts I wonder?
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 18, 2017, 09:02:19 PM
They could also have been for attaching to a locker key.

I notice one is marked Leeds City Transport which suggest an earlier set of key tags than the others bearing WYPTE.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on July 23, 2017, 12:33:34 AM
University of Hull.pdf

A STUDY IN THE DECLINE OF THE BRITISH STREET TRAMWAY INDUSTRY IN THE TWENTIETH CENTURY WITH SPECIAL REFERENCE TO SOUTH YORKSHIRE (https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/University%20of%20Hull.pdf?token=AWwwrV0HEbXSaaNzarCZNx79CVe06bAJOy9neAq632pKB0OSXlPdq2MEUROCoj7Ej8A0t9WvJMOVGAHSObwqQZwWyqfyJS9b2STpD4aEQldkzl9vnVwssJ-YhrKI1TGTdY3me727YMBOrt-9lYdD8j0NF3ez65NUu4CAcHm20C6bodZTDvfmcWcQ_H-gX0ZpGCJsSH5WkjOiIB_xvG3jQ7uQ)
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: scroggs on September 06, 2017, 08:31:10 PM
The first two are NCT Newport Corporation Tramways tokens , slight variants .
The third i presume is a Newport Transport token as it is very similar , anyone know for sure?
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 06, 2017, 09:20:33 PM
Are you calling the first token a variant because the distance between the N and the logo is different? It looks like the letters are slightly lighter and the dots smaller, but that could be due to wear or lighting.

As for the NT token, we found (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Newport) that NCT became NT in 1986. The logo is the same and the denomination side is practically the same, so even though I haven't see this token before, I have no trouble accepting it as a post 1986 bus token of Newport.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: FosseWay on September 06, 2017, 10:13:29 PM
The ONE JOURNEY TOKEN is noticeably differently spaced on the middle token in scroggs' post. The first and third are the same as each other, though with different reverses.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 06, 2017, 11:18:47 PM
I agree it's certainly a different die and one i must check when I return home.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: orsk2 on October 07, 2017, 10:16:22 PM
Another option.



Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on October 07, 2017, 10:30:00 PM
Nice and certainly very different!
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on June 08, 2018, 04:10:08 AM
Staffordshire Potteries Street Railway Limited.

The genuine small piece, brass 24X19mm. Note it has an inner circle both sides which is not so apparent on the fantasies. See here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,24162.msg159886.html#msg159886)

...and yes a compressed image is now on World of Tokens
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on June 08, 2018, 10:52:49 AM
Great catch indeed, Malcolm. Congratulations! Good to see the genuine token and the fake side by side. They are clearly very different.

Peter
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on June 08, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
I should have added weights.

The genuine token 730 PB is 2.7g

The fantasy 730 YA is heavier at 3.9g
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: malj1 on October 24, 2018, 12:02:13 PM
Another batch of Glasgow 2 stage tokens acquired in a job lot this week.

Several variations in the arms.

I feel that one you list is plastic, the size implies plastic too.

I have four of these 2 Stage tokens in plastic in varying shades of red, 21.5mm., along with one larger fibre token, 23.7mm that is quite different, the reverse having much larger font.

Edit; Another Glasgow 2 stage added today. rev. legend nicely spaced - see right-hand token the other is left-hand in Epa3054; obv see space between upper and lower legend.
Title: Re: UK local transportation tokens
Post by: Figleaf on October 24, 2018, 01:08:51 PM
They must have found a way to make them all different. ;) I hope you will find mules. They would link different varieties in time, so that at some time, someone would be able to make sense of the mess.

Peter