World of Coins

Other tokens and medals => Food and drink tokens => Topic started by: redwine on February 08, 2012, 09:22:16 AM

Title: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 08, 2012, 09:22:16 AM
OK, I've decided to collect wine and Wales related tokens too!  A token featuring both would be super!!
Any offers?  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 10, 2012, 12:37:18 AM
I don't know how you would use a token in the wine trade, except for empty bottles, maybe. There are plenty of Welsh tokens around, though, starting with the druid, a nasty person who liked blood offerings and making magical walls with heads or skulls...

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on February 10, 2012, 07:37:09 AM
" starting with the druid, a nasty person who liked blood offerings and making magical walls with heads or skulls..."

They still do in Pontypridd ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 10, 2012, 07:58:34 AM
" starting with the druid, a nasty person who liked blood offerings and making magical walls with heads or skulls..."

They still do in Pontypridd ;D

Ah, the home of the legendary front row  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 10, 2012, 08:02:23 AM
So far, looking around I've found wine merchants, good for a glass of wine and some plain Vin ones - all very interesting 8)

As for Wales, I all ready have a druid.  Now, where's my golden sickel????  :P
And I've spotted some nice farthings................
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 10, 2012, 11:24:51 AM
Right! I restricted my thinking to wine production. I have a company restaurant token good for a glass of wine somewhere...

But that becomes a "mer à boire"! What we usually call beer tokens could just as well be used for wine. The amount of beer tokens is unimaginably large.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 10, 2012, 05:02:50 PM
Ah, the home of the legendary front row  8)

I'm mixing up my Max Boyce.
The true legends are of course Pontypool.   ::) :-[
My rellies will be reeling................
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 10, 2012, 05:04:14 PM
Right! I restricted my thinking to wine production. I have a company restaurant token good for a glass of wine somewhere...

But that becomes a "mer à boire"! What we usually call beer tokens could just as well be used for wine. The amount of beer tokens is unimaginably large.

Peter

Good for a glass of wine.
I'd prefer Good for a glass of fine wine. ;) ;D
But, yes please :D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 10, 2012, 11:39:51 PM
I believe there are a few wine merchants in the Australian 19th century series of tradesman tokens; this one springs to mind. [although not in very nice condition]
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 11, 2012, 06:34:28 AM
I believe there are a few wine merchants in the Australian 19th century series of tradesman tokens; this one springs to mind. [although not in very nice condition]

I like it, thanks for sharing Malcolm  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: ciscoins on February 11, 2012, 08:34:50 PM
Some producers of vodka in Russia, to increase the demand (which has recently begun to fall), put silver tokens in their bottles. The largest number of these tokens comes from "Standard" vodka.

Here's the online catalog (http://tokenoman.ru/content/category/6/50/41/lang,russian/)

Also there were several beer tokens (http://tokenoman.ru/content/category/6/38/41/lang,russian/). But no wine.

(By the way, the official name of vodka in Russia in XIX century was "table wine #21".)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 11, 2012, 11:09:30 PM
You can have the one above if you would like it. I think I have a South Africa too, E. K. Green and Company wine merchant Cape Town; must check!

Found this expensive Welsh Wine token here...  [blank reverse]

http://www.rarecoinsandtokens.co.uk/abergavenny-wines-and-spirits-merchant-token-p-671.html (http://www.rarecoinsandtokens.co.uk/abergavenny-wines-and-spirits-merchant-token-p-671.html)

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Prosit on February 12, 2012, 01:13:54 AM
Other than good for a glass of wine, I have seen a few from actual wine makers. I draw a distinction between wine sellers/distributers/merchants and wine makers.  I find the later more interesting although I do not have any duplicates and darn few in my collection at all.

Dale
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on March 04, 2012, 10:35:51 AM
You can have the one above if you would like it. I think I have a South Africa too, E. K. Green and Company wine merchant Cape Town; must check!

Found this expensive Welsh Wine token here...  [blank reverse]

http://www.rarecoinsandtokens.co.uk/abergavenny-wines-and-spirits-merchant-token-p-671.html (http://www.rarecoinsandtokens.co.uk/abergavenny-wines-and-spirits-merchant-token-p-671.html)

Sorry, missed this.
Yes, please!  ;D
And crikey that is expensive but rather lovely :)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 04, 2012, 11:52:24 AM
Its yours! I don't have the other - E. K. Green and Company, wine merchant, Cape Town unfortunately.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on March 04, 2012, 12:00:12 PM
Its yours! I don't have the other - E. K. Green and Company, wine merchant, Cape Town unfortunately.

Many thanks  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 19, 2013, 11:34:37 AM
Here are my latest acquisitions / donations  ;D

Only 30 pfennigs!  >:(

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 19, 2013, 11:46:52 AM
Apparently this one dates to around 1880. W & A Gilbey served the home market admirably and shipped their wines and spirits to the colonies.  It appears this was attached to the bottle.  "Saumur champagne is highly recommended by the medical profession."  They wouldn't get away with saying that these days!!
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=ODT18780214.2.21.8&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0--
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 19, 2013, 12:13:14 PM
A proper champagne from an anonymous donor, who should be getting a nice surprise in the post about now.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 19, 2013, 12:15:14 PM
A proper token now
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 19, 2013, 12:17:19 PM
In my mind the best wine of all.
Consimilar.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 19, 2013, 12:19:01 PM
This one's close to wine and it appears there are a number of varieties of this token colourwise. Rose in this case  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: chrisild on August 19, 2013, 03:44:31 PM
Here are my latest acquisitions / donations  ;D

Only 30 pfennigs!  >:(

That "Dürkheimer Riesenfass", by the way, can still be entered. :)

(English) http://www.duerkheimer-fass.de/index.php?id=79
(French) http://www.duerkheimer-fass.de/index.php?id=81

Christian
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 19, 2013, 05:51:05 PM
Fantastic!  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 20, 2013, 12:55:14 AM
I once visited the Giant Barrel at the Heidelberg Castle and had a glass of wine there, you were allowed to keep the glass as a souvenir of the visit.

I still have mine.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 22, 2013, 07:03:21 PM
That glass is too small!  ;D

Here's another piece

http://cuissedebergere.fr/
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: africancoins on August 22, 2013, 09:23:28 PM
In Spanish (which I know very little of) but very much on the subject of wine tokens (though maybe not just wine tokens) see...

as an introduction see this page...

http://conuvi.com.ar/index.php?topic=2953

and then the listing...

http://issuu.com/pelo84/docs/cat_logo_de_fichas_de_vendimia__mayo2012-_?e=3515868/2904706

Thanks Mr Paul Baker
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 22, 2013, 09:55:40 PM
Impressive, many thanks!  8)  Many, many tokens to collect  :o ;D

I do like some of the South American wines, Errazuriz and Casillero del Diablo come to mind ;D
I'll probably remember some more when I sober up ...............................
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 26, 2013, 07:26:27 AM
Thought I'd better add this Cartaux piece from the other thread....
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 26, 2013, 12:45:08 PM
as an introduction see this page...

http://conuvi.com.ar/index.php?topic=2953

and then the listing...

http://issuu.com/pelo84/docs/cat_logo_de_fichas_de_vendimia__mayo2012-_?e=3515868/2904706

For those whose Spanish is a little bit rusty, these are Argentine tokens and they include olive farm tokens. They were used to keep a tally on the wages earned by day labourers. You may not see many of these outside Argentina.

That said, the effort to publish is highly laudable. The author has around 300 pieces, a co-operative friend 200 and they acquired a great collection of about 1700 pieces that is not yet integrated in the book. In other words, there is a reason why the author has marked each page as provisional. Unfortunately, there is no new version for over a year now.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 26, 2013, 01:45:05 PM
The first link fails as too slow to load. [for me down-under anyway]

A search on eBay gives 287 results for Argentina tokens,

this one looks good... 15 DIFF GRAPE HARVEST TOKENS
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 29, 2013, 06:32:35 PM
Too rich for my blood, at the moment   :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 14, 2013, 10:22:44 AM
My latest piece thanks to a very nice chap in Germany  ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 14, 2013, 01:49:41 PM
I imagine these were attached to a bottle with a wire perhaps?

I have a pair that are similar:  BEL OISEAU REIMS around the cap of maintenance; rev. 1876 CHAMPAGNE EXTRA-DRY.

The second piece has the same obverse but the reverse is blank.

Both of these are usually included in Isle of Man collections as the eagle on the cap of maintenance is the Stanley crest and is used on the copper coins of James Stanley, 10th Earl of Derby, 1702-1736.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 14, 2013, 06:29:02 PM
Very nice ;D
When my budget allows I shall search those out in a very economical fashion.............
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 15, 2013, 12:16:19 PM
Another that is holed to allow attachment to the champagne bottle.

CHAMPAGNE BOUCHAGE BREVETE S.G .D.G. Rev. BLEY FRERES REIMS

I might part with this one.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 15, 2013, 12:57:35 PM
I'm happy to twist your arm  ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 15, 2013, 01:10:11 PM
It feels quite twisted enough!  ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 17, 2013, 02:25:13 PM
Chambres de Commerce Herault. 10c.  Bit grubby :-[ but still  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 05, 2013, 12:33:03 PM
I imagine these were attached to a bottle with a wire perhaps?

I have a pair that are similar:  BEL OISEAU REIMS around the cap of maintenance; rev. 1876 CHAMPAGNE EXTRA-DRY.

The second piece has the same obverse but the reverse is blank.

Both of these are usually included in Isle of Man collections as the eagle on the cap of maintenance is the Stanley crest and is used on the copper coins of James Stanley, 10th Earl of Derby, 1702-1736.

Here's another  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 05, 2013, 12:37:57 PM
And I forgot about this monster  8)

c63g
50mm
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on November 21, 2013, 03:31:28 PM
My latest 'swap' acquisition  8) thanks to a very nice chap in Germany  ;)
O: EULER & BLANKENHORN / * CHAMPAGNE * / STRUB / SUCCS  ;D
R: MEDAILLES / BÂLE 1877 / PARIS 1878 / PARIS 1879 / ZÜRICH 1883 / FRIBOURG I/B. / 1887
2.37g
19mm
Brass
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on November 21, 2013, 06:04:48 PM
And I forgot about this monster

I did wonder if you'd spotted that.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on November 21, 2013, 07:36:46 PM
No one seems to have noticed Fribourg (French) / Freiburg (German)  :P
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 21, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
Fribourg/Freiburg: I find that it is "on the cultural border between German and French Switzerland" Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fribourg).

I see your latest piece has the usual hole, have you discovered the method of attachment to a bottle? My guess, attached to the wire holding the cork in place.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on November 21, 2013, 09:23:20 PM
I questioned an expert on such things and he thinks that it was separately attached.
Very nice chap who runs www.corkscrewmuseum.com
A fascinating site!
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 21, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
A fascinating site indeed!  8) No tokens though as far as I could see.  :o
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on November 22, 2013, 06:38:42 AM
According to the author of Wine Antiques & Collectibles, he also runs that site, there's a chapter on Exonumia showing examples of wine tokens (33 images) 8) http://www.bullworks.net/books/wineantiques.htm
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: chrisild on November 22, 2013, 01:51:01 PM
Fribourg/Freiburg: I find that it is "on the cultural border between German and French Switzerland" Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fribourg).

Could also be the one in BW, DE: Freiburg im Breisgau (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_im_Breisgau). The tokens in #32 and #41 both say "i.B." after all ...

Christian
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on November 22, 2013, 03:23:30 PM
Yes I think you're right Christian  8)

I've been trying to decipher the abbreviations on the champagne tokens:

BREVETE (patented) S.G.D.G. sans garantie du gouvernement (without guarantee of the state)

but SYSTEME C.B.F. DEPOSE I have got nowhere.  Well that's not quite true, I've been to plenty of interesting places.  Sidetracked again!

And incidentally I found mention of Bel Oiseau.  In Sydney & Brisbane!  Newspapers from 1879-1880 say "CHAMPAGNE-Bel Oiseau, in quarts and pints."  Class!  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on November 22, 2013, 03:25:37 PM
A fascinating site indeed!  8) No tokens though as far as I could see.  :o

There is one hidden here http://www.bullworks.net/virtual/newstuff/token.htm
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 22, 2013, 10:23:00 PM
what a corker!

...a look on eBay found a nice one for sale.
Circa 1860 Callao Peru Token Cal 27. Bottle with two glasses and corkscrew image on obverse. Schmidt's Saloon 1 Real Callao on reverse.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on November 25, 2013, 07:49:25 AM
I see the Winning bid was US $55.00 Plus P&P  :(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on November 25, 2013, 07:50:26 AM
Hmmm, I think someone has a corkscrew loose  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 20, 2013, 02:21:56 PM
Santa came early this year, no idea how he got hold of my list?
Many thanks though Santa ;D

Plastic
35mm
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 20, 2013, 02:23:26 PM
21mm
Brass
2.31g
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 20, 2013, 02:26:36 PM
Brass
12.63g
32g
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 20, 2013, 03:04:01 PM
I was intrigued by the English on the spinner. Found the restaurant in Koblenz, on Deinhardplatz 3. From the comments, it seems to be an upmarket wine bar, specialised in Alsatian and German white wines (http://www.deinhards-koblenz.de/index.php/de/wein-sekt), rather than a midmarket restaurant and it's close to the Rhine. I guess that is an attractive combination for US servicemen stationed in Frankfurt/Main? The menu is in German and English.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 20, 2013, 03:24:07 PM
Fascinating, thanks Peter 8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: chrisild on December 20, 2013, 03:48:13 PM
Ah, Deinhard. The brand has its site here (http://www.deinhard.de) by the way, but that spinner would indeed be used at the restaurant. (Although ... it opened in 2007? Hmm.) Guess that, at the time when the piece was issued and used, there was indeed still American military in Frankfurt. Oh, and ... quite a few people around here will still know this Deinhard commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yeqAc7rJWI  Found it fun initially, despite the bad dubbing job, but as with many other things in advertising, after a while it gets on people's nerves. :)

Christian
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 23, 2013, 05:53:54 PM
That ad got on my nerves straight away!  ;D

It seems like a very small timeframe for said piece?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on December 23, 2013, 07:15:48 PM
Can't lay hands on it at the moment, but there's also a Deinhard Wine Florin in exactly the same format.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 26, 2013, 04:25:32 PM
Can't lay hands on it at the moment, but there's also a Deinhard Wine Florin in exactly the same format.

Looking forward to seeing a piccy 8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 26, 2013, 04:29:18 PM
Koto vin puissant - apéritif rouge ou blanc  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 14, 2014, 01:49:58 PM
Latest acquisition  8)

Copper
21.95mm
3.22g

O: VILLE DE BOURG . AIN . / 1855
R: ASSOCIATION ALIMENTAIRE / VIN
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 14, 2014, 02:44:26 PM
Bourg-en-Bresse is not just the capital of the very nice Côtes de Bourg redwine, but also of the Poulet de Bresse, a chicken that actually tastes like chicken. The two are a fine combination with a strong sauce of redwine and lardons.

Curiously, the series is not in Elie.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 14, 2014, 03:23:06 PM
I like Côtes de Bourg 8) And lardons - fatty bacon.  Hmmm ;D
Remember Peter, Elie generally only lists tokens with monetary values.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 15, 2014, 02:08:49 PM
My sort of wine token!  ;D
Apparently in Saint-Etienne  8)

23.85mm
2.9g
Brass

O: * CAFE J.SEYVE FILS AINE * / VINS / EN GROS / A BERARD
R: BON POUR / 12½ C. / EN CONSOMMATION

Added: Elie Saint-Etienne 152.1 NB shown as 27mm but that is measured diagonally! :-\ And it's actually 27.5mm  :P
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 15, 2014, 05:13:16 PM
A nice example of a denomination that didn't circulate in official coin. At the time, the lowest available denomination was 5 centimes. I suppose it was a commercial trick: buy 2 tokens for 25 cents and get your drinks for 12-½ centimes instead of 15 centimes.

Saint-Etiennes is South-West of Lyon. Just over 200 km to the South is Bédarrides, where Bérard Père et Fils are grossistes en vins.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 16, 2014, 10:31:27 AM
Just had a look for Bédarrides in Elie, not listed.  But strangely I spotted another 12½c bon pour consommation in the Cafe Pontvianne, Beauzac.  Doesn't mention wine though :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 16, 2014, 11:13:56 AM
I wasn't claiming the tokens belong to the Bédarrides enterprise, rather that the family and their business seem to have moved there. There are more 12-½ centimes denominated tokens and I believe that shape is popular among them. Maybe their geographical locations (Beauzac is close to Sant-Etienne) are concentrated? Commercially, it seems like a good idea. Give a 16-⅔% discount and take seigniorage and loyalty advantages. As for the Café Pontvianne, I would be mightily surprised if the consommation in question were Coca Cola or Whiskey...

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 16, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
Understood Peter.  I looked for the town of Bédarrides in Elie :P  No tokens listed for the town  :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 17, 2014, 06:56:02 PM
3g
23.7mm
Octagonal
Brass

Thanks to another piece on the net I was able to see what the words on the token should be.  I hope to get a better piece in the future.....

O: HENRY WESTRON / WINE & SPIRIT MERCHANT / 23 HIGH ST / WHITECHAPEL / LONDON
R: 23 HIGH STREET WHITECHAPEL  / (elephant) / LONDON
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 17, 2014, 10:57:10 PM
I think I can help with this! I shall seek it later today, I am fairly sure I have it.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 18, 2014, 07:01:49 AM
Excellent!  Many thanks Mal  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 18, 2014, 07:41:14 AM
Found it! not quite as nice as I recalled but it does not have a large hole through it.

The Elephant & Castle is nice on this one; the hole removed the entire castle on the other piece.

I recall another Elephant & Castle here recently?

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on March 19, 2014, 06:50:10 PM
Here's my latest acquisition

1874 Bel Oiseau  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on March 19, 2014, 09:41:14 PM
Nice one! It seems there are many dates, quite a collection could be formed.

Previously you mentioned:

And incidentally I found mention of Bel Oiseau.  In Sydney & Brisbane!  Newspapers from 1879-1880 say "CHAMPAGNE-Bel Oiseau, in quarts and pints."  Class!  8)

This is said to be the origin of the expression "mind your P's and Q'a" a reference to your tab by the publican.

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on March 20, 2014, 01:44:03 AM
The "quarts & pints" were more likely to be bottles and magnums, although pint bottles did exist. The Victorians though did have a hearty appetite when it came to champagne. The bubbly was drunk from champagne tankards, usually of silver. I own a silver third pint champagne charger which looks very much like a pewter pint pot except smaller and with much thinner walls.
Quarters, thirds, halves and pints were all common champagne measures up until the advent of WWI, the glass flute seems to have first appeared around the 1890's.

P.S.
I've just remembered that pint bottles of Moët were still available in London in the late 60's
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on March 20, 2014, 06:52:40 AM
Nice one! It seems there are many dates, quite a collection could be formed.

Previously you mentioned:

This is said to be the origin of the expression "mind your P's and Q'a" a reference to your tab by the publican.

I'm working on that collection ;)
And many thanks for the info re P's & Q's.   8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on March 20, 2014, 06:54:16 AM
The "quarts & pints" were more likely to be bottles and magnums, although pint bottles did exist. The Victorians though did have a hearty appetite when it came to champagne. The bubbly was drunk from champagne tankards, usually of silver. I own a silver third pint champagne charger which looks very much like a pewter pint pot except smaller and with much thinner walls.
Quarters, thirds, halves and pints were all common champagne measures up until the advent of WWI, the glass flute seems to have first appeared around the 1890's.

P.S.
I've just remembered that pint bottles of Moët were still available in London in the late 60's

Thanks Peter, I shall look out for one for the Mrs, she loves her bubbly ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 13, 2014, 02:25:49 PM
A lovely champagne piece from BLEY FRERES REIMS CHAMPAGNE.
Kindly donated by a benefactor overseas  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on June 14, 2014, 01:10:34 AM
Just reading through this thread again I see quite a collection of wine related tokens has formed.  :)

I also see that the token promised in February is still sitting on my desk here waiting to be posted! I shall endeavour to get it in the mail with some others next week.  ::) [PO closed Saturdays]

In the meantime...
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 17, 2014, 03:35:58 PM
oooh!  Many thanks Mal  8)
Like your gif  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on July 09, 2014, 02:24:05 PM
See more details on this piece here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,28006.0.html) 
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 11, 2014, 06:07:06 PM
Here are some more VERRE CONSIGNÉ
Each has M.F.A / DEPOSE on the reverse.
The ones at the top are in new francs  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 13, 2014, 03:15:32 PM
I drink more tea than wine.  Especially at the mo.  :'(

O: .BARRETT'S TEA WAREHOUSE. / 44 FETTER LANE
R: GOOD / WINE / NEEDS NO / BUSH
2.98g
21mm

A bit of Shakespeare for you 8) This begs the question. If you don't need to advertise it, why are you?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on August 13, 2014, 06:21:34 PM
The Dutch equivalent of the quote translates as "good wine needs no wreath", which means that something good (not necessarily wine) is best "advertised" by word of mouth. Maybe it's different in English...

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 13, 2014, 06:42:55 PM
Same thing really and my point exactly.  Your audience hear it on the grape vine  ::)  Why produce an advertising token when WOM is your best marketing tool.
Perhaps they'd just started.   ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 25, 2014, 03:45:57 PM
The latest and all ready one of my faves  8)
Many thanks to bagerap  ;D

30x35mm
14.7g

O: Dom Perignon 1638.1715 / (the monk himself)
R: MOËT & CHANDON / (crown) / 1743 / CHAMPAGNE
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 26, 2014, 03:26:19 PM
And another thanks for the heads up from Mal

WINES / AND SPIRITS / BY MASSEY / LUD(LOW) - looks like it's been worn away
28mm
8.17g
Uniface

From the Hereford Times 6 Mar 1847 "WANTED, in the WINE and SPIRIT TRADE, ASSISTANT—Apply to Francis Massey, Wine Merchant"

Another similar, slightly smaller piece,  can be seen here. (http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/19th-century-token-ludlow-massey-269957520)

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 26, 2014, 03:49:56 PM
Perhaps weakly struck. Another Massey piece can be seen at Reply #11 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,13679.msg94549.html#msg94549)

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13679.0;attach=20552;image)

It seems they had several locations ...perhaps other family members?

Here are some items I prepared earlier, From Scott; British counter-marks etc.

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 26, 2014, 04:01:57 PM
Many thanks Mal, very interesting!  8)
I shall have to do some more digging ................ or quaffing  ::) ;D
No mention though of serrated edges?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 26, 2014, 04:10:40 PM
Does the serrated edge look contemporary? hard to tell from the scan.  ???

The three different tokens are very similar but the style of the surname with the f's and s's gives some clue to the various dates of issue.

Just the job for a Welshman to seek answers!  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 26, 2014, 04:14:11 PM
I'm on it!  ;)

Mention here of activity in Monmouthshire reported in the London Gazette 1852
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/21331/page/1804/data.pdf

Ahh.  Re serration it would seem it has been held by something in the worn off corner.  There's a dent in the back.  So probably after.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 26, 2014, 04:19:47 PM
I worked out some time ago that with those PDF's that if you save them - you can then copy these easily.  ::)

NOTICE is hereby given, that the Partnership lately
subsisting between us the undersigned, John Massev
Bellamy and William Edwin Bellamy, as Wine and Spirit
Merchants, at Abergavenny, in the county of Monmouth,
•was dissolved by mutual consent, on the 12th day of June
instant.—Dated this 22nd day of June 1852.
John Massey Bellamy.
William Edwin Bellamy.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 26, 2014, 04:21:55 PM
Splendid  ;D

The will of Francis Massey, Wine Merchant of Ludlow , Shropshire (Date:23 May 1853)  is available at the National Archives.  For a price! Ref:PROB 11/2172/345
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 26, 2014, 04:34:54 PM
Just been whizzing through shropshirehistory.org.uk
Francis Massey is active in the wine trade on the following dates:
2 Feb 1807  Document Reference: LB/4/1/1662
1834 Document Reference: 2030/5/106

And interestingly Token N.00013 - Early to mid C19th halfpenny trade token, 'Wines and Spirts by Massey, Ludlow' [sic]. Minted onto a worn William & Mary halfpenny.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 26, 2014, 05:15:34 PM
Also

At Ludlow, Mr. Francis Massey, wine and brandy merchant, in his 68th year died. The Salopian Journal 16/01/1811

So we've been talking about junior and senior!

It appears he had to appear before a Parliamentary select committee with regard the Ludlow Borough elections in April 1840!
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fVsSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA177&lpg=PA177&dq=francis+massey+wines+ludlow&source=bl&ots=5dUc7dTGJW&sig=6LDzVy2wO-es29hk6lJTIkcfyew&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_p78U6CMOKeP0AWOwYCABQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=francis%20massey%20wines%20ludlow&f=false

Didn't seem to affect him as he was Mayor of Ludlow from 1846-1847

Confirmation of Scott:
SALOP DIRECTORY, Published by Tibham & Co., Shrewsbury, 1828  Francis Massey is at Bull Ring
Pigot and co.'s national commercial directory for 1828-9 - same
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 26, 2014, 11:44:12 PM
Interesting about the Parliamentary select committee but seems he was only called as a witness.

I see I missed adding this psrt of the entry for Kidderminster.

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on August 27, 2014, 12:37:31 PM
Thanks again Mal.  ;D

I've been charging around this site (http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/map/collection/p16445coll4)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on August 27, 2014, 01:14:55 PM
Thanks again Mal.  ;D

I've been charging around this site (http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/map/collection/p16445coll4)

From that link:

From the History, Gazetteer & Directory of Shropshire, 1851

HISTORY OF LUDLOW. p593

The following is a list of the members of parliament, borough magistrates, and corporate officers for the year I851 :-
Members of Parliament: Colonel Salwey and Henry B. Clive, Esq.
Magistrates: Francis Massey, Esq.; Humphrey Smith, Esq.; John Thomas, Esq.; Robert Thomas, Esq.; and Benjamin Urwick, Esq.
Mayor : Richard Marston, Esquire. Aldermen : Francis Massey ; Benjamin Urwick; Samuel Valentine, and Henry Whittall. Councillors: Francis Boulton, Joshua Cooper, George Griffiths, Ambrose Grounds, James Hand, Charles Harper, James Jones, Horatio Russell, Edward B. Smith, Rirhard Valentine, Philip Wayn. Town Clerk and Coroner: John Williams, jun. Treasurer: Thomas Childe. Assessors: George Cocking.....

STOTTESDEN HUNDRED. p610
....
Wine & Spirit Merchants.

Evans Edward, The Cross
Massey Francis, Bull ring
Parry Jas., Hand & Bell lane
Powell Edward, Castle street
Sankey Eleanor, Broad street
....

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 01, 2014, 03:09:44 PM
ACKERMAN  SAUMUR BRUT trolley token  8)
Uniface
23mm
5.95g
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 01, 2014, 03:21:12 PM
I am allergic to anything like BRUT (http://www.brutworld.com/) that has a scent.  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 01, 2014, 03:24:11 PM
I am allergic to anything like BRUT (http://www.brutworld.com/) that has a scent.  ;D

Very dry Mal  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 04, 2014, 11:13:54 AM
I imagine these were attached to a bottle with a wire perhaps?


I've finally found out what these were for!  Thanks to an article in Collectionneur & Chineur no 72 18/12/2009.
It was a key for opening the wire cage and thus an integral part of the aforementioned. And obviously a nice keepsake afterwards.  Rather than use a knife or a pair of scissors and risk the servant getting badly cut the champagne houses provided this useful little tool. 8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 04, 2014, 12:09:02 PM
Indeed that is something like I imagined, attached to that wire  ;D but had not thought it through to being used as a removal tool.  ::)

Pleased that we have it sorted at last.   :like:
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 04, 2014, 12:32:21 PM
 ;D
You can read the whole article in French here (http://www.echange-passion.com/t4139-z-plaque-de-cuivre-pour-un-muselet-de-theophile-roederer-co)
Some lovely pieces in that thread too 8)  and here (http://www.echange-passion.com/f98-les-plombs-de-champagne)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 04, 2014, 12:36:32 PM
I have opened quite a few champagne bottles, but never needed a knife or scissors ???

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 04, 2014, 12:38:32 PM
But not many in the late nineteenth century!  ;)

And I forgot to add the piece is written by Michel Paynat.  Now he does collect some interesting things!  8)
Brothels, champagne - sounds like my sort of collector ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 04, 2014, 12:57:59 PM
;D
You can read the whole article in French here (http://www.echange-passion.com/t4139-z-plaque-de-cuivre-pour-un-muselet-de-theophile-roederer-co)
Some lovely pieces in that thread too 8)  and here (http://www.echange-passion.com/f98-les-plombs-de-champagne)

Very interesting links there which with Google translates help, reads after a fashion! The names and initials there may come in useful another day.  ::)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 11, 2014, 04:11:44 PM
This monster turned up in the post ;D

O: commanderie des grands vins d'amboise
R: nos roys l'ont ayme  (our kings loved it)
BRONZE J.BALME
151g
63mm
Depth 5.45mm

Amboise is on the Loire, east of Tours.

For more info, see http://www.commanderie-vins-amboise.com/
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 11, 2014, 04:14:30 PM
And this  8)
3.5g
25mm (length of grapes)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 12, 2014, 12:37:17 AM
I believe I have seen a couple of those minus the ribbon - is it bracteate?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 12, 2014, 07:18:19 AM
It is  ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 12, 2014, 08:48:01 AM
I searched and found four but they had turned into oak leaves! brass, bracteate, about 33mm long.  ;D 3.2g

They do look very similar though, same manufacturer? I wonder.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 23, 2014, 08:48:42 AM
Many thanks to the ACJM I now have an article on the champagne pieces. 8)
"Les Medaillettes Publicitaires et Jetons de Champagne" by Michel Paynat BULLETIN N° 32  -  Décembre 2005
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: jsalgado on September 26, 2014, 10:49:54 PM
From Portugal four wine  and Porto wine tokens
tin plate yellow and black  27 mm
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2djvyfa.jpg)

brass  29 mm
(http://i59.tinypic.com/4jt281.jpg)

brass  31 mm
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2j1qwzr.jpg)

brass  29 mm
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2ptc500.jpg)


Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 26, 2014, 11:36:23 PM
You don't mention the size or metal; I think perhaps the first is in cardboard?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: jsalgado on September 27, 2014, 08:51:52 AM
Now I have listed the size and metal.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 27, 2014, 09:05:29 AM
Thank you, very few tin pieces survive the ravages of time. This one is very nice.

I see the third piece is a spinner used to decide who is to pay for the wine.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 27, 2014, 10:36:11 AM
Very nice  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 03, 2014, 03:32:44 PM
JETON LOUIS XV CORPORATIONS - LES GARDES MARCHANDS DE VINS

O: REGVM.MENSIS.ARISQVE.DEORVM.
R: ÆQVATIS.IBVNT.ROSTRIS./ (Coat of Arms Gardes-Marchands de vins) / LES.GARDES.MARCHANDS.DE.VINS.

Copper
Coin aligned
7.5g
28mm

I found a silver example signed D.V.  Any ideas who that is?  Many thanks  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on October 05, 2014, 03:11:54 AM
Benjamin Duvivier(1730-1795) signed DV.(as did his father), this is one of his I believe
Feuardent Jetons Vol I.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn21/constanius/Feuardent.jpg)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 05, 2014, 06:44:43 AM
Splendid ;D  Many thanks 8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 28, 2014, 04:46:05 PM
My latest.  Bit confused  ::)
21mm
2.14g
Coin aligned

* A VIN DE * / LA / COMETE
[Wine of the comet]

SEIGNE / PAS

Seigné, a tiny commune in Charente Maritime?
The seller said it was from 1811?  The time of the great comet and a particularly good year for wine.  Apparently several wines were named after it.
Any thoughts?  Many thanks ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on October 28, 2014, 07:54:28 PM
I think I may have been bidding against you on that one.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 28, 2014, 08:40:05 PM
I think I may have been bidding against you on that one.

Thankfully, no. I would have lost :'(
This was France only  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on October 28, 2014, 08:57:05 PM
There was one in a Belgian job lot two weeks ago.I lost.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on October 28, 2014, 09:01:33 PM
Seigné doesn't explain PAS. How about a shop of Mr. Seigné in Pas (now part of Geel, Belgium)? It might even explain the crummy French, as Geel is in Flemish-speaking territory...

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on October 28, 2014, 10:18:07 PM
The wine may date to 1811 but I doubt the token is that old.

I won a nicer one in a lot from France a month ago, I wanted the automatic piano oneQV. This piece I was going to pass on to a friend, he might still need it.  ::)

edited to add: Brass 21mm.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 29, 2014, 09:26:28 AM
Peter, I think you might be on to something there ;D
PAS makes no sense.  So yes, a place name.  8)
Lucky friend Mal!  ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 16, 2014, 10:01:24 PM
TIR DE COMMUNE + AIGLE with a nice bunch of grapes. rev. a pair of crossed muskets. brass, 23.3mm

Seems it may not be wine related?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 20, 2014, 10:35:54 PM
REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE rev. REMY MARTIN COGNAC 1724 initials ctb copper18.5mm.

This is interesting as it also would come under the heading replica type coins with the remarks COPY 78 in a tablet under the bust on the obverse.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on December 21, 2014, 11:53:05 AM
French law does not require marking copies, but US law does. Note that copy is copie in French. Meant for an English-speaking market. Note that CTB (http://www.ctb-werbeagentur.com/ctb2.htm) is a German advertising agency specialised in booze.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 25, 2014, 04:32:35 PM
Thanks again to Mal for the heads up  ;D

O: + BEL OISEAU + / REIMS
R: 1876 / CHAMPAGNE / DRY / SYSTÉME C B F DÉPOSÉ

21mm
3.68g
Brass
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 25, 2014, 09:20:23 PM
I have since acquired the same piece too, from a job lot.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 09, 2015, 08:19:00 PM
Holed:  26.3mm  4.8g
O: * UNION COOPERATIVE * SAULNES
R: FL(Û)TE

Normal: 26.4mm  5.3g
O: * COOPERATIVE * DE SAULNES
R: FLÛTE

Hexagon
Brass

Others in this series are holed / complete: FLÛTE (Aluminium), BAGUETTE (Brass & Aluminium) and 1/2 & 1 litre de lait (Aluminium.)  There may be more........
Not listed in Elie.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 10, 2015, 12:09:14 PM
Great fun! Saulnes is in the Lorraine region, near the German border. A flûte here is not a champagne glass, what it would be in the rest of France, but an Alsatian wine bottle. Alsatian wine comes in bottles of a smaller diameter that are slightly higher but still contain 75 centilitre.

The advantage or problem (depending on your way of looking at it) of the flûte is that it doesn't stack well among regular bottles. Hence "flûte!" is an accepted way to curse politely. A polite curse on a token. That must be pretty unique.

There's more. With the exception of the pinot noir*, all Alsatian wines are white, while it is a safe bet that other tokens good for wine from this period would get you only a red wine.

Peter

* in those days, the pinot noir looked more like a rosé in the glass, because it wasn't ripened on oak yet
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 10, 2015, 12:13:12 PM
Many thanks Peter.
I assumed twas a champagne flute  :-[
Even happier now though!!  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: andyg on February 21, 2015, 10:56:57 PM
This one (identified with a little help) is worth wine to the value of 1 Kreuzer.  Issued in Salzburg, Austria.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on February 22, 2015, 12:30:23 AM
Impressive, andyg. Did you get an explanation of the lettering?

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Prosit on February 22, 2015, 01:23:29 AM
Something to do with Franz Anton Fürst von Harrach maybe?
Dale

Impressive, andyg. Did you get an explanation of the lettering?

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on February 22, 2015, 01:42:07 AM
It is a mine token for payment in wine,

compare to

salzburg - wahrzeichengeld leopold anton firmian, 1 kreuzer 1728

(http://img.ma-shops.de/macho/pic/artid245_combined.jpg)

MA SHOPS  Münzversand Peter Macho.


This is the same as yours.
  http://munzeo.com/coin/salzburg-harrach-muhlbach-gastein-kreuzer-28773342   (http://munzeo.com/coin/salzburg-harrach-muhlbach-gastein-kreuzer-28773342)

 Salzburg FRANZ VON ANTON HARRACH, 1709-1727. Cu wine trade mark to 1 Kreuzer 1720 Gastein and Mühlbach. Monogram FHG on value number I between 17-20 below grape. Rv. Monogram FHAM without a slash.

Though they give the reverse monogram as FHAM it makes more sense to be FAHM.

That would make the obverse monogram possibly to be for FRANZ HARRACH GASTEIN, the reverse FRANZ ANTON HARRACH MUHLBACH, was there mines in both locations?  So this token could be used in either place.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13679.0;attach=52011;image)


Pat
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 22, 2015, 10:33:29 AM
Please show me to the nearest mine!  ;D
Really interesting collecting area  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on February 22, 2015, 01:40:12 PM
Sorry, can't serve alcohol to minors.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 22, 2015, 01:44:06 PM
Sorry, can't serve alcohol to minors.

LOL!  ;D ;D  How did you survive in Wales!! :P
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on April 13, 2015, 12:30:23 AM
This is a Ccmplete set of ten coin tokens issued by Kijafa cherry wine producer V&S Danmark A/S in the 1970's. 
The tokens bear the designs from ten different Danish gold coins - Gold coins appear on the label of Kijafa cherry wine bottles. 

(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1012015/1428877539_1393180007_wine1horz.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=69258)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on April 13, 2015, 12:44:42 AM
A lovely set beautifully done. And done this way they shouldn't be mis-identified for the real thing like other replicas.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on April 13, 2015, 07:18:39 AM
Very nice Mr Bagerap  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on April 13, 2015, 02:57:59 PM
A lovely set beautifully done. And done this way they shouldn't be mis-identified for the real thing like other replicas.

Ditto.....they also have Kopi on them.

Pat
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: maxmissy on April 14, 2015, 06:51:02 PM
Just to come back to the " flûte " token ( from cooperative de Saulnes ) - Reply #137
In fact, these tokens are for bread :  A "flûte" weighs twice as a baguette - Look at the second picture below which was taken at a baker's : baguette on the left and flûte on the right.
Bon appétit !
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on April 14, 2015, 09:30:01 PM
This is a Ccmplete set of ten coin tokens issued by Kijafa cherry wine producer V&S Danmark A/S in the 1970's. 
The tokens bear the designs from ten different Danish gold coins - Gold coins appear on the label of Kijafa cherry wine bottles. 
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1012015/1428877539_1393180007_wine1horz.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=69258)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")

One of those pieces is also in my collection. Not hard to guess which one ...  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on April 15, 2015, 06:24:35 AM
Just to come back to the " flûte " token ( from cooperative de Saulnes ) - Reply #137
In fact, these tokens are for bread :  A "flûte" weighs twice as a baguette - Look at the second picture below which was taken at a baker's : baguette on the left and flûte on the right.
Bon appétit !

Thanks maxmissy.  Bit disappointed :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on April 17, 2015, 02:25:19 PM
A "flûte" weighs twice as a baguette

Not in the Essonne region. A baguette would be around 250 grams, a pain around 400 grams, a flûte around 200 grams and a ficelle around 125 grams.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 10, 2015, 02:07:56 PM
O: PRIMISTÈRES PARISIENS / VINS / ET / ÉPICERIE / AVEC PRIMES
R: BON / POUR / [1,3,5,20 or 25] / PRIM' VACANCES / VALABLE EXCLUSIVEMENT POUR LE CONCOURS

Looks like PP CR-3 inkmark

Circle: 38.75mm
Octagon: 44.7x41.5mm
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 10, 2015, 02:47:03 PM
A nice looking set. You don't say what they are made of, they look to be thick card?  ???
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 10, 2015, 02:49:24 PM
A nice looking set. You don't say what they are made of, they look to be thick card?  ???

Oops :-[  Right again Mal  ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 10, 2015, 04:48:18 PM
These sold on delcampe a few years ago.
Different countermark. PP BS-1, PP BS-3 & PP BS-4
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on July 06, 2015, 04:34:10 AM
Just added another of the Bel Oiseau.

This one has RESERVE instead of DRY another that I have reads EXTRA DRY

O: + BEL OISEAU + / REIMS
R: 1880 / CHAMPAGNE / RESERVE / SYSTÉME C B F DÉPOSÉ
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on July 15, 2015, 11:41:04 PM
(http://www.omnicoin.com/coins/960263.jpg)

Farthing undated. Head of Queen Victoria r., ROYAL ARTILLERY CANTEEN WOOLWICH Rev.: A cannon with sponge and rammer, GREGORY BROWNE / WINE MALT LIQUOR/ AND PROVISION / MERCHANT. By Pinches.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on July 15, 2015, 11:54:05 PM
Gregory Browne also issued a larger piece; this didn't mention wine.

This often found counter-marked with a number on the reverse.

He styled himself 'Tenant by appointment of the war office'.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: MORGENSTERNN on July 18, 2015, 12:06:39 PM
Chambres de Commerce Herault. 10c.  Bit grubby :-[ but still  8)
same token in higher grade
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 20, 2015, 08:03:06 AM
Wine is a mocker!  :o
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 20, 2015, 10:43:49 AM
They're right! Prevention is better than cure.  >:D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 24, 2015, 07:38:16 AM
* BERNARD AINE * / LE PREVOYANT FRANÇAIS APÉRITIF-DIGESTIF AU VIN NATUREL / METAL A LA REINE
LE / PRÉVOYANT FRANÇAIS / APÉRITIF-DIGESTIF / AU VIN NATUREL / BERNARD AINÉ / INVENTEUR / SEUL FABRICANT / A / AIGUEPERSE (PUY DE DOME) / * C'EST MAINTENANT QU'IL FAUT BOIRE LE PRÉVOYANT FRANÇAIS * / NUNC EST BIBENDUM

4g
37.16mm
Metal a la Reine - which according to my French forum buddies is an alloy of tin, lead, antimony & bismuth. 
What's the English name for that? :-\
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 24, 2015, 09:58:08 AM
Metal a la Reine or Queen's Metal, an alloy of nine parts tin and one each of antimony, lead, and bismuth, is intermediate in hardness between pewter and britannia metal. It was developed by English pewtersmiths in the 16th century; the recipe was initially a secret and was reserved for pieces made for the English royal family.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 24, 2015, 12:35:42 PM
Of course, Queen's Metal  :-[
Not sure why I didn't find that many months ago :-\
Aha, it's not listed here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alloys
That's probably why ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 28, 2015, 05:18:05 PM
Aluminium
1.7g
27.85mm

* COURVOISIER * / COGNAC
* THE BRANDY * / OF / NAPOLEON
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 28, 2015, 10:45:00 PM
Nice condition. Napoleon is not around to refute or confirm the claim.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on December 29, 2015, 08:08:51 PM
I picked these up in October, but forgot to include them here.


(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/bagerap/Mobile%20Uploads/9252-horz-vert_zps0karotct.jpg) (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/bagerap/media/Mobile%20Uploads/9252-horz-vert_zps0karotct.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 29, 2015, 09:28:32 PM
Nice I haven't seen the last one Fritz Strub before.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 30, 2015, 08:01:13 AM
Very nice Mr Bagerap  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 04, 2016, 06:35:17 AM
O: + BEL OISEAU + / REIMS
R: 1874 / CHAMPAGNE / DRY / SYSTÉME C B F

Not brass and not magnetic so it might be zinc and a tiny 19.8 this time. It has seen better days over its 140 years of history and apparently has been buried for most of that time!
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 04, 2016, 05:28:43 PM
Another subtle difference!  :o
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 04, 2016, 06:02:21 PM
Just snaffled these  8)
A case in point.

The differences I've noticed.
Obverse
Hole position.
Letter spacing in REIMS differs.

Reverse
Different size circumflexes on 'E' in SYSTEME.
Accents over 'E' in DEPOSE, or dots.
Letter spacing in CBF differs.
Not sure about full stops after C,B & F.

I think I may all ready have one of these :-[  But I'm not sure  :-\
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 04, 2016, 06:27:35 PM
It seems that the holes were made in a separate operation, so if they are in the same place it would be a coincidence. I would call the other differences "different font". :)

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 04, 2016, 08:26:15 PM
It seems that the holes were made in a separate operation, so if they are in the same place it would be a coincidence. I would call the other differences "different font". :)

Peter

I'll have to disagree.  Without wishing to enter the great font/typeface debate, I think it's the same character set by and large.  The kerning differs as do the accents used.
As for the holes, similar pieces in detail that I have seen seem to be fairly consistent.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 04, 2016, 08:47:09 PM
Which has made me think that a different firm tried to copy the other one.  ::)  Can't check the alignment ::) But most likely similar.
Looks like someone didn't follow the instruction to put the hole between the L & O.

The ones I have to hand below are all medal aligned
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 04, 2016, 08:55:50 PM
PS I don't like what she has done to this lovely piece
http://www.rebekahannjewellery.co.uk/product/champagne-token
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 04, 2016, 10:08:13 PM
The tags can be removed but she has plated them too.  :(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 04, 2016, 10:09:59 PM
The differences I've noticed.
Obverse
Hole position.
Letter spacing in REIMS differs.

Reverse
Different size circumflexes on 'E' in SYSTEME.
Accents over 'E' in DEPOSE, or dots.
Letter spacing in CBF differs.
Not sure about full stops after C,B & F.

Additionally the small one in Reply #173 doesn't have DEPOSE
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 05, 2016, 06:00:15 AM
The tags can be removed but she has plated them too.  :(

And only £85!  :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 11, 2016, 04:51:13 PM
I now have the piece in hand and I can see that a different planchet has been used for the Bel Oiseau 1876 Champagne Dry.
The new piece is:
Diameter 20.85mm
Depth 1.65mm
Weight 3.85g

The others are:
D 20.56mm  20.6mm 20.6mm
D 1.4mm    1.38mm 1.5mm
W 3.44g    3.29g  3.7g

I also emailed the Champagne Museum to see what they knew of Bel Oiseau.  They very kindly replied promptly even though the museum is currently closed.
They'd never heard of this Champagne house!  :'( After a bit more ferreting around I found that a lot of the so called 'Champagne' was in fact sparkling wine from Switzerland and Germany  :o  The name had not been trademarked at that time. 
The name Champagne became legally protected by the Madrid system under an 1891 treaty.  I wonder if the Swiss signed up to it?  Interestingly, the designation Brut Champagne was created for the British in 1876. [wiki]
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 11, 2016, 11:08:08 PM
The Australians knew about Bel Oiseau champagne, see this advertisement from the Australian Town and Country Journal of Saturday 13 March 1880 which mentions: CHAMPAGNE-Bel Oiseau, in quarts and pints.

You may remember too I mentioned the expression P's and Q's; the pints and quarts must have been more commonly used in those days of 19th century.

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 12, 2016, 06:30:42 AM
Lovely ad Mal  ;D

Further to Bel Oiseau, my other theory was that it was just a name used for export.
Given that it states quite clearly 'REIMS' on all the tokens, it's French. Almost certainly :-\
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 13, 2016, 03:57:19 PM
B.d'HAUTESERRE * / REIMS
SYSTEME CH.B.F.
19.7mm
3.25g
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 13, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
LUNG FRÈRES / * ALGER *
FAC ET SPERA as part of coat of arms  [Do and hope]
Makers of Royal-Kebir
19.2mm
1.95g
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on January 13, 2016, 07:06:29 PM
I did forget to bid on this piece. Great you got it!  :)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 13, 2016, 07:14:40 PM
Many thanks.  It could have cost me a fortune!  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 14, 2016, 07:44:33 AM
B.d'HAUTESERRE * / REIMS
SYSTEME CH.B.F.
19.7mm
3.25g

There is a Bellefleur de Haute Serre which is from the region of Toulouse. Cahors to be exact. Château de Haute-Serre 46230 CIEURAC
Well they certainly make a Bellefleur de Haute-serre which is a Malbec Brut Rosé. So, it's a sparkling wine.
But why does it say Reims?  :-\
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 14, 2016, 01:42:01 PM
BLANKENHORN & Co.  CHAMPAGNE STRUB * / (young bust of Victoria?)
20.5mm
2.75g
Described in the sales blurb as Lauer?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 14, 2016, 11:03:30 PM
Don't believe all you read! those sellers often have no idea. its even the wrong size for Lauer toys.

Most likely an unofficial farthing advertisement.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 15, 2016, 08:40:13 AM
No probs Mal  ;)
I wasn't bothered if it was or not  ;D
This piece is part of the Swiss connection.   8) I think  :-\
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 16, 2016, 08:30:23 AM
http://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/fr/intproperty/120/wipo_pub_120_1931_02.pdf
LA PROPRIETE INDUSTRIELLE 28/2/1931 pp31-32

"The company Champagne Strub, Mathiss & Cie, plaintiff and respondent is registered in the Commercial Register of Basel.
Its purpose is the production of sparkling wines using the wines of Champagne and selling them.
It succeeded several other companies (including the Company Blankenhorn & Cie) also inscribed in the commercial register of Basle City and with the same purpose."

So a Swiss company making French Champagne. ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 16, 2016, 10:52:01 AM
You don't know what you are buying today and it appears it was not much better then.  ::)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on January 16, 2016, 04:21:05 PM
My Fritz Strub token does say Rheims - Bale
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 16, 2016, 04:34:42 PM
My Fritz Strub token does say Reims - Bale

Yes, I think that was one of those integrated into Champagne Strub, Mathiss & Cie.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 18, 2016, 04:44:13 PM
CHAMPAGNE STRUB MATHISS & CO. / (young Victoria bust)
Uniface   
20.6mm
2.8g
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on January 18, 2016, 07:10:13 PM
Same young Victoria head as used on this spiel marke, which could be by Lauer.  So perhaps a pantograph was used with the same pattern, hence the same head but in different sizes.

(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn21/constanius/Spiel%20Marke.jpg)
(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13679.0;attach=59412;image)

(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn21/constanius/17mm-horz.jpg)

This spiel marke is 17mm, so the actual head is probably the same size as used on the wine token, so perhaps a single punch of the head was used in the making of both dies?

(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn21/constanius/Lauer.jpg)
Image from eBay(no size given) signed Lauer.

Pat
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 18, 2016, 10:26:47 PM
Yes this puts it to a Lauer issue.

I like the suggestion of a single punch bearing that likeness as being the most likely.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 19, 2016, 06:29:41 AM
Very interesting Pat.  8)
So both these are Lauer?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on January 19, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
  I feel comfortable attributing them all as by Lauer, Tim, as does Malcolm.

Pat
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 19, 2016, 06:10:22 PM
Many thanks Pat  ;D
I wonder how he felt leaving one side blank?  :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 22, 2016, 03:19:04 PM
Uniface
WEIN MARKE / 1886 / (wine goblet)
Zinc
19.25mm
1.35g

German or Austrian? Not sure how it was used? :-\
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 22, 2016, 10:46:03 PM
A stock only token for anyone that wanted one to use; sometimes they counter-marked their name of initials on these.

A similar one but in aluminium is listed in Schimmel, German tokens. # 563
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 23, 2016, 06:51:06 AM
Many thanks Mal  ;D
I wonder why it has a date on it?
I thought it might be for an annual event? :-\
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 23, 2016, 07:45:39 AM
Your nitpicking has ruined a good result,  :o Yes I wonder why it is dated.   :(

Maybe there was an exhibition or something, such as a world trade fair in that year?  ???
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 23, 2016, 08:11:28 AM
Me nitpicking!  :o ;D ;D
Perhaps it's only valid for that year.
I shall have a quick look for expos........
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 23, 2016, 08:14:58 AM
No world fairs in Austria & Germany in 1886 according to Wiki........
But a couple of art exhibitions in Vienna & Berlin.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 23, 2016, 12:18:58 PM
I found this trade fair at Nizhny Novgorod in Russia in 1886

Smirnov started exporting vodka to Europe, his product earning recognition there, then winning prizes at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial Exhibition in the United States. In 1886, Emperor Alexander III, invited for a tasting of Smirnov's vodkas when visiting Russia's largest trade fair in Nizhny Novgorod, where Smirnov had an impressive mega-booth constructed from bottles and casks, pronounced himself chuffed and granted Smirnov the warrant of appointment as a purveyor to the royal family.

 Source (https://books.google.com.au/books?id=tGh_CgAAQBAJ&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=Trade+Fair+for+Wine+and+Spirits+1886&source=bl&ots=dV5p2E-Bjx&sig=S_B2_aOj4J14eId01pisCAatrqU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih_5SC5r_KAhXFUZQKHbF3BvgQ6AEIQDAJ#v=onepage&q=Trade%20Fair%20for%20Wine%20and%20Spirits%201886&f=false)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on January 23, 2016, 04:02:11 PM
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medal-Wine-Fair-Frankfurt-AM-Germany-1886-Lemcke-/351626906164    (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medal-Wine-Fair-Frankfurt-AM-Germany-1886-Lemcke-/351626906164)

Medal: Wine Fair Frankfurt AM. Germany. 1886. Lemcke.

  https://books.google.ca/books?id=6LcKAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA103&lpg=RA2-PA103&dq=Wine+exhibition+germany+1886&source=bl&ots=ZcPlippR7J&sig=jhAw23DG45FdcFBAOF4R3oDzmpk&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false  (https://books.google.ca/books?id=6LcKAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA103&lpg=RA2-PA103&dq=Wine+exhibition+germany+1886&source=bl&ots=ZcPlippR7J&sig=jhAw23DG45FdcFBAOF4R3oDzmpk&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)   “Report on the First German Wine Exhibition at Frankfort on Main. Foreign Office, Miscellaneous Series, 1886.   Opened at Frankfort on the 18th of August, and closed on the 12th of September, 1886."


Pat
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 23, 2016, 04:13:37 PM
You're very good at research Pat  8) ;D
I think that must be it ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 25, 2016, 02:24:09 PM
My latest acquisition  8)
VINS & HUILES / J. / PASTORE / RUE LUNEL 2 / & RUE BARLA / NICE / CARTAUX / PARIS
25 TICKETS / DONNENT / DROIT / A LA PRIME / PASTORE
Brass
21mm
2.25g
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 25, 2016, 08:48:20 PM
Can you translate that reverse for me? it may perhaps be a prize from a slot machine.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 25, 2016, 09:11:36 PM
I think it's most likely a coop like system where you save up up your tickets/tokens and cash them in for a discount on wines and oils.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 26, 2016, 07:49:59 AM
VINS & HUILES

Wines and oils

25 TICKETS / DONNENT / DROIT / A LA PRIME

It takes 25 tokens to get the bonus

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 26, 2016, 09:44:45 AM
Thank you, I only got the bonus word.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 26, 2016, 10:17:08 AM
Great mutual support teamwork here.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 27, 2016, 07:39:03 PM
Another I forgot about  :-[

JETON DE DEGUSTATION / FOIRE AUX VINS / RIBEAUVILLE
Plastic, not sure they're meant to be different colours?  Perhaps one got too much sun?
Uniface
40.7mm
2.8g

Tasting tokens for a wine fair in Ribeauvillé (Haut-Rhin, Alsace).  Alsace is most definitely not my cup of tea. ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 27, 2016, 10:24:30 PM
Alsace is most definitely not my cup of tea.

I have learned not to generalise about wine. I even tasted a very nice Romanian wine (drank it with a former Securitate officer. Long story :)) once. Try an Alsatian Tokay Pinot Gris with freshly cooked white asparagus early in the season, decorated with just a bit of chopped hard boiled egg. No mayonnaise or vinegar. The :perfect: mariage.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 28, 2016, 06:30:49 AM
I'm red wine through and through.
I've been through my sekt/champagne period.
Never got on with petrolly whites.
I'm happy  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on January 29, 2016, 10:44:19 AM
I am through with red and white, sparkling and non-sparkling, sweet and dry, ...    :'(   Sigh!
(Pancreatitis)


But I want to show my newest token, even if this type was shown by Tim some days before.

How were these tokens used?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 29, 2016, 11:36:59 AM
Very sad  :'(

I believe the tokens were firstly used as an aid to undoing the wire cage.
And secondly as an advertising piece once the bottle was empty, if anyone could be bothered to save it.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on January 29, 2016, 01:53:41 PM
I always managed that without help of a token.  ;D 
Did they have different sealing sytems in those earlier years?

The following token seems to belong to the same company:
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 29, 2016, 02:03:32 PM
I'll bet you used a sabre!  ;D
My guess, rusty wire = tetanus  :-\
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on January 29, 2016, 03:45:12 PM
I took my teeth!  ;D

Another one from Algeria:

( Or did I get this one even from you? )
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 29, 2016, 05:53:37 PM
Crikey!
There's a picture of what you'd be up against here http://tire-bouchons.blogspot.fr/search/label/BOUTEILLES%20ET%20BOUCHONS

You'd have to have twisted both arms and both legs to have got that from me!
I like it  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on January 29, 2016, 06:25:00 PM
Thanks for the link, very interesting.  Red is also the only wine for me :P
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on January 29, 2016, 08:18:10 PM
You'd have to have twisted both arms and both legs to have got that from me!
I like it  8)

If it would not be from Africa, it would be yours. But I will search for another one.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 29, 2016, 09:32:10 PM
The blog brought to mind the only label I have, that for Dry Sherry. EPNS

The reverse is signed STOKES MELB. a local token and medals maker that is still in business today.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 30, 2016, 11:43:11 AM
If it would not be from Africa, it would be yours. But I will search for another one.

Understood and Many thanks  ;D 
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 30, 2016, 11:44:48 AM
Thanks for the link, very interesting.  Red is also the only wine for me :P

A very nice chap writes it.  He's looking into the meaning of some abbreviations for me  :-*
CH.B.F & C.B.F
The INPI have been absolutely useless and keep asking me to contact their premium phone line  ::) :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 05, 2016, 11:05:56 AM
He's started his investigations.......
http://tire-bouchons.blogspot.fr/search/label/ENIGMA
ENIGMA N° 25 : BOUCHONS ET JETONS DE CHAMPAGNE
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 05, 2016, 11:46:38 AM
I have but one suggestion, if both C and CH is Charles then the ending F could be Fecit we are then left with B for some Bxxxxx!  >:D

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on February 05, 2016, 02:10:53 PM
Must be Charles Bronson!  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on February 05, 2016, 06:07:00 PM
A very nice chap writes it.  He's looking into the meaning of some abbreviations for me  :-*
CH.B.F & C.B.F
The INPI have been absolutely useless and keep asking me to contact their premium phone line  ::) :'(

You only needed to ask,  Ch. Benoit Fils ;)

"CHARLES BENOIT, fils, Champagne Wine-grower and Merchant, Delegate of the City of Rheims,
and Member of the Bordeaux Wine Jury, 1882"

(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn21/constanius/CH.%20B.%20F..jpg)



The answer was here all along :)   http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=26365.0   (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=26365.0)

1870 Pall Mall Budget Vol 4
"Champagne is drunk much like beer is in England, and a speculative firm of Rheims has already issued a “Champagne de la Garde Mobile,” of which I enclose the label, as you might like to give it a trial. A characteristic thing is that M. Charles Benoit fils, who composed this new beverage, has also composed a label upon which the tricolour standard is united to the Imperial eagle and the Légion d’Honneur"

Ridley & Co.'s Monthly Wine and Spirit Trade Circular, Issue 432, Part 43
May 12, 1884.

THE SCIENCE OF ADVERTISING—BRITISH & FOREIGN—No. 102.

"Exactly a year ago, under this same heading, we had occasion to notice a circular from C. Benoit Fils, of Reims, when we were rash enough to characterize his particular system of advertising as "audacity." Our remarks called forth a somewhat facetious letter from Mr. Benoit, which we published in our June issue, in which the writer set forth the reasons which had induced him to change his style of business, and why he had become sufficiently audacious to attempt to do without an agent on this side, and to sell direct to whomsoever he pleased. Mr. Benoit has now indited a second manifesto to the British Aristocracy, in which he "takes the liberty of recalling himself to their kind remembrance." Needless to add, the pith of this second ebullition of genius is nothing more than the "consumer direct," dished up in a slightly varied form, Mr. Benoit posing on this occasion in the character of a discoverer, having been suddenly struck by the double advantages which the consumer and himself, are to derive from its adoption. With the exception of a rise in the prices of his goods, and the abolition of any particular vintage from his carte of Sparkling Wines, Mr. Benoit appears to advance no new "attraction " beyond that offered a year ago, if at least we except the addition of "1880 Beal Still Sillery at 40s." This class of Wine was, according to our friend, a few years back, in great demand amongst the English Aristocracy, and it is "with a view to keep up the exportation of these excellent Wines in their natural state "that he has decided to put into bottle as a Still Wine a certain quantity of his 1880 Sillery. Such being Mr. Benoit's reason in trying to resuscitate a defunct branch of the trade, we imagine that profit forms no sort of consideration in his " departure," and although as a principle we hold that it is dangerous to allow sentiment to interfere with business, we will not cavil with the enterprising Frenchman in this respect, it having been admitted since the most remote ages that love of country is a virtue above all others to be commended.
So much for Mr. Benoit's circular, which, as we have said, holds forth little or no fresh inducement to patronize his system. It is by no means impossible, however, that this may have struck the writer himself, for we find a postcript has been added, which opens up quite a novel field for the Champagne Shippers, and which runs as follows:—
"P.S.—From the 15th May next, English travellers and tourists who may stop at Reims on their way to "Italy or Switzerland (by the line from London to Bale) will find every Monday and Thursday at the "Grand Hotel, Reims, my carriage or break to drive them round the vineyards, stopping at my cellars to taste "these excellent Champagnes (gratis). A splendid view is obtained from the culminating point of my vineyard "at five kilometres from Beims, showing the Cathedral and City to great advantage."

Whether this hospitable invitation of Mr. Benoit's will have the effect of causing tourists to flock to Beims during the coming Summer, experience alone can prove. We only trust that, if such be the result, and if the lucky tradesmen of that ancient city make immense fortunes through Mr. Benoit's disinterested endeavours, they will see that some mark of honour is conferred upon him in accordance with his merits, and will not be so ungrateful as to allow one who is willing to give so much for the public good to go entirely unrewarded. The advantage of being able to taste Mr. Benoit's Wines gratis, and of being allowed to see the Cathedral from his grounds should certainly do much to raise the popularity of the city in the eyes of tourists. Perhaps next year we shall find that our estimable friend has arranged with Messrs. Cook & Son to bring large parties of excursionists to his establishment and to refresh them on their journey with his Vin de Chasse; possibly also, Barnum's White Elephant, if it has come down to a reasonable price, might be secured as an additional " draw" on behalf of the town of Reims in general, and of the vineyards of Mr. Benoit in particular.
What may be the next method which that gentleman's versatile brain will fix upon to advertise his goods"
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: bagerap on February 06, 2016, 12:12:43 AM
A saucer of milk please, for the reviewer.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 09, 2016, 09:17:51 PM
Crikey Pat!  8)
I am in awe  ;D
Or as I used to say in astins, I am in Ore.
I'm a bit too passed to read your post but I am impressed  ::)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 10, 2016, 06:38:57 AM
I'm not sure I can make total sense of that Ridley waffle above and I'm glad I didn't try last night.  ::)
From 1870 Pall Mall Budget Vol 4 -  Charles Benoit came up with a certain style of champagne.
This was then replicated by other sellers?  So if you saw C.B.F you knew what you were getting?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on February 10, 2016, 05:07:36 PM
I was just looking for the meaning of the initials and did not really think about the "system" but reading through the info again..........

1870 was the start of the franco-prussian war and the article just refers to the champagne he bottled with newly designed labels celebrating  "la Garde Mobile"(reservist army units) and shows his entrepreneurial spirit.

His "system" might be in the longer piece
  "change his style of business, and why he had become sufficiently audacious to attempt to do without an agent on this side, and to sell direct to whomsoever he pleased. Mr. Benoit has now indited a second manifesto to the British Aristocracy, in which he "takes the liberty of recalling himself to their kind remembrance." Needless to add, the pith of this second ebullition of genius is nothing more than the "consumer direct," dished up in a slightly varied form, Mr. Benoit posing on this occasion in the character of a discoverer, having been suddenly struck by the double advantages which the consumer and himself, are to derive from its adoption"
Whereby he cuts out the middlemen and can lower the cost to the consumer & himself.  Following on he introduces the chateau/vineyard tour & tasting to assist in that endeavor.

Why I posted the complete article was also  his "trying to resuscitate a defunct branch of the trade" namely the still champagne(as opposed to sparkling) by issuing "his 1880 Sillery", which I personally found most interesting.

Sorry if I over complicated it :)

This is an 1892 advert, so perhaps his "system" included supplying other houses champagne too including the previously posted B. d´HAUTESERRE  REIMS.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn21/constanius/Advert.jpg)

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 11, 2016, 04:51:31 AM
No criticism of you Pat.  Reading the article was like wading through stale porridge in the dark whilst someone was shouting randomness.  I HATE that style of writing.
This is getting a bit Orwellian :o
So the man became an agent?

Any chance of seeing / paraphrasing the earlier article from Ridley?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: maxmissy on February 11, 2016, 04:34:07 PM
A rare necessity token from Algeria  : Vignoble du chapeau de gendarme ( vineyard of " gendarme's hat ")
Albert Camus ( French litterature Nobel prize in 1957 ) was born near this place because his father was the cellarman .
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on February 11, 2016, 04:55:05 PM
Great piece! Thanks for showing!

If this piece is for swap or sale, please, send me a PM.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on February 11, 2016, 05:10:24 PM

So the man became an agent?

Any chance of seeing / paraphrasing the earlier article from Ridley?

Well, if I am correct, and his "system" was the consumer direct selling method to cut out middlemen for his own champagne and he offered to both advertise & use his method for other Houses champagne, which we know he did, then yes I guess he was an agent.  Hence any champagne he advertised & shipped had not only the name of the House(Clicquot, Hautserre) on the wine tokens but reference to his "system". 

Unfortunately the earlier article from Ridley is unavailable.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 11, 2016, 06:28:49 PM
A rare necessity token from Algeria  : Vignoble du chapeau de gendarme ( vineyard of " gendarme's hat ")
Albert Camus ( French litterature Nobel prize in 1957 ) was born near this place because his father was the cellarman .

That's a beauty!  ;D
And I'm a big fan of Camus  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 11, 2016, 06:30:00 PM
Well, if I am correct, and his "system" was the consumer direct selling method to cut out middlemen for his own champagne and he offered to both advertise & use his method for other Houses champagne, which we know he did, then yes I guess he was an agent.  Hence any champagne he advertised & shipped had not only the name of the House(Clicquot, Hautserre) on the wine tokens but reference to his "system". 

Unfortunately the earlier article from Ridley is unavailable.

The pig became the farmer  :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 12, 2016, 02:45:25 PM
Champagne fiver  8)
A mate in England picked this up for me - Oh You Pretty Things in Trinity, Leeds.
73x170mm
Light card
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on February 12, 2016, 05:03:35 PM
"Don't you know you're driving your Mamas and Papas insane"

Very nice.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 12, 2016, 11:18:24 PM
Expiry date was 7th Feb. 2016  :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 14, 2016, 04:41:16 PM
O: PRIMISTÈRES PARISIENS / VINS / ET / ÉPICERIE / AVEC PRIMES
R: BON / POUR / [1,3,5,20 or 25] / PRIM' VACANCES / VALABLE EXCLUSIVEMENT POUR LE CONCOURS

Looks like PP CR-3 inkmark

Circle: 38.75mm
Octagon: 44.7x41.5mm

Just picked up a 2!  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 14, 2016, 11:16:49 PM
That's a lucky find to complete your set.

Same rubber stamp again, did you find out what this is?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 15, 2016, 06:57:20 AM
My guess is PP = PRIMISTÈRES PARISIENS
And the code CR-2 in this case relates to a specific shop.
See these pieces with code BS-3 & BS-4
http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id,151073423,var,Lot-de-4-monnaies-de-necessite-de-carton-Primisteres-Parisiens--Felix-Potin-Vins-et-epicerie-a-Paris-75,language,F.html

Here's a piccy of one of their stores at a very reasonable price of 45 euros ::)
http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id,337052496,var,Primistere-Parisien-13e-Carte-photo,language,E.html

10 centimes for a taster 8)

And another, note the depot code!!
http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id,356672794,var,93--AUBERVILLIERS-CARTE-PHOTO--COMMERCE-PRIMISTERE-PARISIEN,language,E.html

So  PP = PRIMISTÈRES PARISIENS & CR-2 = depot code

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 15, 2016, 07:45:27 AM
That makes sense of it.

I have saved the two images to here.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on February 16, 2016, 08:59:56 AM
CHAMPAGNE / MINET JNE / REIMS
Brass
4.66g
22.7mm
27.3mm at clasp

Many thanks to Mal for the heads up on this one  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on February 16, 2016, 01:05:54 PM
Looks better here.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on March 07, 2016, 02:37:36 PM
My latest  8)
Zinc-nickel
Round scalloped
Slightly off medal aligned
3.2g
25mm ish

Elie 1.3 PÉRIERS - 50190 Manche

* VINS ET EAUX-DE-VIE * / LEDOLLEY / LAMOTTE / PERIERS
3F

Apparently there are two others to get: 75c & 1 Franc.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 31, 2016, 09:47:34 AM
Cuvée / Dom Pérignon / C.GONDARD
CHAMPAGNE FRANCE /  (cornucopia) 1* / C.GONDARD
40g
41mm

I got this piece a while back thanks to a very nice chap in the UK.  I decided to deconstruct the plastic container today!  An old tent peg did the trick.  8)
It seems it's one of a very large series. There are a whole host of different wine-related ones posted here (http://www.lajauneetlarouge.com/article/table-ronde-de-membres-du-groupe-x-vinicole#.V0ycouTVu70) and here (http://www.lajauneetlarouge.com/article/la-nouvelle-geographie-des-vins-francais#.V0x6m-TVu70)
There are a few ads around on these pieces, some saying silver, some saying silverplate.  Anyone have a definitive answer? Many thanks.  ;D
The problem being what does '1*' mean?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 31, 2016, 02:07:12 PM
According to wiki: From 1988 to 1992, with Serge Tchekhoff, Claude Gondard made a series of about forty silver medals on the theme of great French wines.
These are the ones I've found so far.

ALSACE / Domaines / SCHLUMBERGER
ALSACE / DOPFF&IRION / RIQUEWIHR
AY / BOLLINGER   R: CHAMPAGNE FRANCE /  (cornucopia) 1?* / C.GONDARD
BANDOL / Château ROMASSAN
BEAUJOLAIS / Château de CORCELLES
BEAUNE / Les / HOSPICES   R:BOURGOGNE-FRANCE
BERGERAC MONBAZILLAC
CHABLIS / Domaine / LAROCHE
CLOS de TART
CLOS de VOUGEOT / Chevaliers / du TASTEVIN
CORTON /  Château CORTON GRANCEY
COTES DE PROVENCE / Château de la / MASCARONNE
Cuvée / Dom Pérignon / C.GONDARD   R: CHAMPAGNE FRANCE /  (cornucopia) 1* / C.GONDARD
Dom / Ruinart
GRAVES / Château HAUT-BRION  R:BORDEAUX-FRANCE
KRUG / C.GONDARD   R: CHAMPAGNE FRANCE /  (cornucopia) 1* / C.GONDARD
LAURENT-PERRIER / CHATEAU de LOUVOIS / GRAND / SIÈCLE / C.GONDARD   R: CHAMPAGNE FRANCE /  (cornucopia) 1* / C.GONDARD
LOIRE / Baron de LADOUCETTE / Château du NOZET
LOUISE / POMMERY
MARGAUX / Château / RAUSAN / SEGA    R:BORDEAUX-FRANCE
MEURSAULT / Château de / Meursault
PERRIER-JOUET / BELLE / EPOQUE   R: CHAMPAGNE FRANCE /  (cornucopia) 1?* / C.GONDARD
PESSAC-LEOGNAN / Château / CARBONNIEUX
POMEROL / Château La CONSEILLANTE
POMMARD / Château / de / POMMARD
POUILLY-FUISSÉ / Château FUISSÉ
SAINT-EMILION / Château Cheval Blanc
SAINT-EMILION / Château FIGEAC
SAINT-ESTEPHE / Château / MONTROSE
VEUVE CLIQUOT PONSARDIN / La Grande Dame

(30 + 2?)  Not far off  ;D

Other probables, but couldn't see picture clearly
Saint-Émilion Château La Conseillante, Margaux Château Giscou
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 31, 2016, 03:28:24 PM
Interesting. Can you see any other numbers against the mintmark?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on May 31, 2016, 05:26:18 PM
I assume you have seen this  http://www.lajauneetlarouge.com/article/claude-gondard-65-dessinateur-graveur-et-medailleur#.V02r_ZErK00    (http://www.lajauneetlarouge.com/article/claude-gondard-65-dessinateur-graveur-et-medailleur#.V02r_ZErK00)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 31, 2016, 05:33:13 PM
Thanks Pat  ;D
I had scanned it :-[  " frappées en argent 1er titre."  Oops!
So, silver but what exactly does the above mean?  I assume 1* means 1er titre.

No other numbers and edge blank.

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on May 31, 2016, 05:54:27 PM
Googled it

This collection, minted in silver by Monnaie de Paris, brings together many of the finest examples of French viticulture. Specifically, it is monetary strikes, "beautiful proof" quality, 41 mm in diameter, struck in silver 1st title.

 Ier is short for premier as 1st is short for first.

Does that denote the medal as a first strike?  Cannot find any others numbers.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on May 31, 2016, 06:07:22 PM
This mentions #2   http://maisons-champagne.com/fr/encyclopedies/champagne-dans-les-arts/?id_personne=335    (http://maisons-champagne.com/fr/encyclopedies/champagne-dans-les-arts/?id_personne=335) but I think it is a 1.  Gives the year as 1970.

Another with 1   http://www.ebay.fr/itm/63523-Champagne-France-Medaille-/191230346862?hash=item2c8637866e:g:UioAAOSwwNVTr-fW    (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/63523-Champagne-France-Medaille-/191230346862?hash=item2c8637866e:g:UioAAOSwwNVTr-fW)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 31, 2016, 06:29:13 PM
If it were first strike, why are there no silver marks?  I think it refers perhaps to solid silver?
And I think the no.2 on that website might refer to the reverse, mind you they don't do that with the other piece  :-\
And you've find another there Pat - Bollinger.   ;D  Updated above.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 31, 2016, 06:36:43 PM
I've found some more here (http://www.lajauneetlarouge.com/article/trop-dintelligence-tue-lintelligence-le-systeme-inao-en-question#.V029DuTVu70)
I'll add in above.......
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on May 31, 2016, 06:42:44 PM
As posted in my link above LAURENT-PERRIER // CHATEAU DE LOUVOIS / GRAND SIECLE.  also as 1*

You are building a great list :)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 31, 2016, 06:51:20 PM
Thanks for your help Pat, only a few off now..............  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 09, 2016, 02:49:21 PM
Latest  8)
SAUMUR / EXTRA QUALITY / W. & A. GILBEY
RESERVE / CUVÉE
Copper
16mm
1.8g
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on June 10, 2016, 01:10:02 AM
Another SAUMUR on eBay

I emailed link.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 10, 2016, 06:37:58 AM
That's nice  ;D
See  Reply #17 - I have it  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on June 10, 2016, 11:44:21 PM
You can't win them all.  :(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on June 11, 2016, 12:29:00 AM
Doity die in GILBEY. Are they all like that?

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 14, 2016, 02:16:49 PM
The ones I've seen, yes.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 14, 2016, 02:20:27 PM
Newly arrived today  8)
Bracteate
Not sure about the metal? Non-magnetic and very malleable.
•H.PIPER & Co.• / RHEIMS / (grapes) / DUPRE?
24.66mm   
1.44g

PIPER-HEIDSIECK is one of the oldest Champagne houses, founded in 1785 by Florens-Louis Heidsieck.  The Heidsieck name was combined with the Piper name in October 1839. Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper-Heidsieck

It was described in the ad as something that sat on the cork?  :-\
Who is Dupre??  Seems like a couple of letters are missing ....
Many thanks  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on June 14, 2016, 05:46:15 PM
Silver champagne cap signed Dupre F.(fecit)  ?

Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 14, 2016, 05:57:39 PM
I think that might be a tad early.  Or have I misunderstood the H. Piper?  :-\
An initial, erm.  Why didn't I think of that  :-[  I have the flu  :'(  And my brain is mush, well more mushy! :-\
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 14, 2016, 06:17:06 PM
How about Georges Dupré 1869-1909 ?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on June 14, 2016, 06:36:26 PM
Fits nicely with this US patent

(http://constanius.com/img/1881.jpg)

From The Champagne Country By Robert Tomes(free eBook)
At Rheims, however, are to be found most of the wine manufacturers whose names are familiar to the world. Here are the Roederers, Clicquots, the Heidsiecks, the Mumms, and De St. Marceaux. Though these have generally their entire establishments at Rheims, some as H. Piper & Co., known as Heidsieck in the United States, have only their counting-houses in that town, and their wine-vaults at Epernay.
The Heidsiecks, Piper-Heidsieck, Hiedsieck & Co., and Charles Heidsieck & Co. are all of the same clan. It was, however, the predecessor of H. Piper & Co., a Heidsieck, who first gave currency to the wine so well known in the United States by that name.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 14, 2016, 10:14:34 PM
Nice one Pat!  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 15, 2016, 08:38:43 AM
From the Piper Heidsieck site:
In 1870, Jacques-Charles Theodore Kunkelmann, a partner since 1851, took over the running of the House.  In 1892, his son Ferdinand Theodore, succeeded him.
So the patent application was by Jacques-Charles Theodore Kunkelmann.

Since I sourced this in the USA I think it must be circa late 19th century as per Pat's patent application (1881) 8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 16, 2016, 10:06:34 AM
Here's (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201604842713) the Krug champagne piece on offer on ebay.  Nicely cased 8)
And a cased collection for Bordeaux (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=8741157366)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on June 16, 2016, 12:11:49 PM
Nice.  :-*

I saved a pair of images.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on June 16, 2016, 12:23:37 PM
Well saved sir  ;D
It is very nice!  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 01, 2016, 09:17:41 AM
My latest snaffle.  8) 8)

* V.BENNER & CH.BENDINGER * / L. ROLOFF / 1863 / (Indian head)
IMPORTERS OF WINES & LIQUORS / No1 AVE A.
Copper
6.08g
24.25mm

Roloff also made other indian head 1863 pieces:

J.J. DIEHL UNDERTAKER / 133 / ESSEX ST. / NEW YORK
* STAUDINGER'S * 116 BROADWAY, N.Y.
H.M. LANE / LAMPS KEROSENEOIL&c. / 18 / SPRING ST N.Y.

certainly more out there..............


Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 01, 2016, 12:23:25 PM
Very nice token.  8)

Roloff is like Mr Diehl who seems to undertake anything.  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on September 01, 2016, 06:33:42 PM
Nice one Tim 8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: blmelon on September 01, 2016, 07:00:41 PM
A sample from Turkey, wine token used in Express Beerhouse in Istanbul..
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 02, 2016, 07:19:36 AM
Thanks Pat  ;D
And that's a nice token from Turkey  8)
Anyone got a spare?  ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: blmelon on September 02, 2016, 07:30:20 AM
Unfortunately very rare token  ;) but if I see another one, I will inform you redwine  :)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on September 02, 2016, 08:17:36 AM
The very concept of a Turkish wine house tickles me. However, şarap is wine, so there's no doubt. Would it have been produced in the Balkan countries?

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: blmelon on September 02, 2016, 08:33:06 AM
Expres Beerhouse active in between 1950s and 1960s, this beerhose have 4 different tokens (beer, wine and raki-45° and 50°).

Also this beerhose in Karakoy, Istanbul and tokens probably produced in Istanbul..
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 02, 2016, 08:33:33 AM
Unfortunately very rare token  ;) but if I see another one, I will inform you redwine  :)

Many thanks.  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 05, 2016, 04:13:53 PM
Another Fritz Strub.  Many thanks Mr Bagerap  8) ;D
19.15mm
2.4g
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on September 05, 2016, 05:17:25 PM
Very well executed and balanced design which has acquired an enhancing patina, goes well with a red dragon ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 05, 2016, 06:32:09 PM
LOL ;D ;D I'm all of a swoon.   :-*
We were talking about bull somewhere, weren't we ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on September 05, 2016, 08:09:14 PM
I take your point about the bull ;D  I think I might have been reading too many wine reviews, though it is a very nice token that has "aged well" ;)

Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 05, 2016, 08:30:29 PM
Sadly I'm a very nice something that has aged badly  :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 08, 2016, 11:58:21 AM
102x74.5mm
Wine plaque. I suppose atttached to a wooden box the bottles were transported in.
Zinc, possibly.

EMILE / CATHALA / VINS / AGEL . HERAULT .

Thought I'd posted this a while back.  Perhaps I did :-[
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 08, 2016, 02:14:26 PM
Nice label, I can't think of any other reason for it.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 11, 2016, 01:01:16 PM
Oh yes!  8)
ST LUNDI
VIVE LE VIN ET LES GIGOLETTES

Gigolette is a small leg or stew.  So I'm going to translate as 'Long live wine and short legs.'
I was hoping it would read  'Long live wine and loose women.' Ah well :'(

3.7g
25mm
Dodecagonal
Zinc
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: MORGENSTERNN on September 11, 2016, 02:02:35 PM
Oh yes!  8)


Gigolette is a small leg or stew.  So I'm going to translate as 'Long live wine and short legs.'
I was hoping it would read  'Long live wine and loose women.' Ah well :'(


In french "gigoulette" is a " Jeune fille délurée, de mœurs faciles, fréquentant les bals populaires. "
That could be translate as "Bold girl, of easy customs, frequenting local dances."
So you was not far away with your first impression
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 11, 2016, 02:23:07 PM
A female form of gigolo ?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 11, 2016, 02:56:59 PM
Female gigolo, I like it!  8) Many thanks guys  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on September 11, 2016, 05:43:07 PM
Female gigolo, I like it!  8)

Many men do >:D

St. Lundi was a day of leisure, in 19th century France, for those that worked on Sunday, not a wine I believe or if it is it is used as a pun.

Hence a day to enjoy in the garden with family or if a young man to enjoy with wine and a young women.

"During a large half of the XIX th  century, the custom to be unemployed Monday, called Saint Monday, taking a new extension in France as part of the first industrialization. This custom which exists mainly in the artisanal character in industry, then changes character following the development of the work of Sunday, Monday nonworking time becomes self that also serves gradually to political and union activities. This latter circumstance is this custom, frowned upon for centuries, the wrath of the religious elites, economic, moralists and philanthropists. By contrasting the virtues of work, family, sobriety and thrift, they will fight it vigorously, especially after the Commune"
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 11, 2016, 06:39:40 PM
Very interesting and informative, thanks Pat  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on September 11, 2016, 06:57:32 PM
This is a google translation for the token,

"The medal is strictly a token (copper) which was to serve at meetings of a company or bacchanalian kids, but we do not know where or when.
At right, the legend saint Monday, the saint standing, dressed in a cobbler like the picture, holding the pitcher of the right hand and a glass in his left hand. In the background, right, a woman - a gigolelte - sleeping with his head on a table. In the third, on the left, two drinkers are seated.
On the reverse with the inscription live the wine and gigolettes the saint standing with a pipe in his right hand, and giving the left arm to the gigolelte slumbering just now on the table. In the background, left, a cabaret.
If the scenes represented here are not already explained the word gigoletles it would be enough to open the dictionary of the language green, Alfred Delvau, where we read this article (Édilion 1883, p 206.)
"Gigolette, sf Young girl who threw her modesty and her honor by the winds, and which consist honor to go play jigs [slang term for" legs "] at public balls, especially balls barrier .... "Mr. Delvau gives the male of this noun" Gigolo, sm male of . gigolette this is a teenager, a small man ... "to avoid stress gigolo, we see that the gigolelte holds closely to the grisette middle of this century. Mr. Delvau think the terms of gigolelte and gigolo are in use "for fifteen years": it certainly mistaken, for the costumes of our chip, such as the image of Epinal, reminiscent of nearby 1830.
Note that, in the token as in the picture, Holy Monday is represented by cobbler. Why this costume 1 II reflects a phrase in its dictionary Littré (sv Monday) quote from a writer of the XVI "century Oudin, Sightseeing françoises : " do the Monday cobblers "that is to say, not to work on Monday. the cult of St. Monday would therefore cobblers extended to other trades. The cobbler, working without a boss, and isolated, and probably less busy, could most easily double on Sunday, and will return to his stall that Tuesday"


Grisette = a young working-class Frenchwoman.



(http://constanius.com/img/poster.jpg)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 11, 2016, 07:20:30 PM
More interesting and more informative, you surpass yourself Sir.   8) I salute you with a glass of wine and I think I'll chase the Mrs around the garden! >:D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on September 11, 2016, 10:15:15 PM
I should have said that the quote was from a 1891 book, Melusine, Volumes 5-7 , 1891.  Which obviously makes the token pictured in it older.

 https://books.google.ca/books?id=8ILlAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=St.+Lundi+gigolettes+vin&source=bl&ots=plkb6mVM3D&sig=iHtQgol6CubyhY5VntUqnK6NQnA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiC6dGd44fPAhXD2D4KHd_2DJ8Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false    (https://books.google.ca/books?id=8ILlAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=St.+Lundi+gigolettes+vin&source=bl&ots=plkb6mVM3D&sig=iHtQgol6CubyhY5VntUqnK6NQnA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiC6dGd44fPAhXD2D4KHd_2DJ8Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on September 11, 2016, 11:57:03 PM
Interesting and until I looked up that link to the book I had forgotten we were talking about wine.  ;)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 12, 2016, 06:47:50 PM
I found this brass version (http://parismuseescollections.paris.fr/musee-carnavalet/oeuvres/satire-de-la-saint-lundi-s-d#infos-principales) in the Musée Carnavalet, Histoire de Paris.  A satyrical piece :o
And it appears they have a few facts wrong in the description!  :o :o
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 14, 2016, 05:12:27 PM
Latest snaffle  8)

SYNDICAT DES VINS / VERSAILLES / BESCHER
FONDÉ / EN  / 1871
c1900
Bronze
Medal aligned
9.95g
27.5mm

Another version is available on ebay at this very mo (different flourishes on obverse)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on September 29, 2016, 10:38:26 AM
ANC. ETS FREMY Fils / MERCI / THEVENON
Consimilar
Coin aligned
Aluminium
21mm
1g

Wine & Spirit merchant, distiller.  8)
Many thanks to Afrasi for the heads up  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 27, 2016, 12:18:47 AM
2.6g
18.2mm
Medal aligned
· NOËL · / VINS / ET / TABAC / BOULOGNE s/s
30c / (Francis Cartaux makers mark) / A / CONSOMMER

I think BOULOGNE s/s refers to Boulogne-Billancourt - Boulogne sur Seine.
Bit of a puzzle?  Is this a slot machine token with advertising or a disount token or both?
Still, it's a first for me 8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on October 27, 2016, 12:13:12 PM
Boulogne s/s is now Boulogne-Billancourt in the Paris region, famous for its has-been car factory. Both additions are to distinguish it from Boulogne-sur-mer in the département de Pas de Calais, famous for its ferry port.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 28, 2016, 06:50:55 AM
Thank you Peter.  The puzzle is:
Is this a french slot machine token?
Or is it a discount token?
Or is it a slot machine token advertising another business?
I have over two hundred 'machine a sous' pieces but I haven't seen one advertising a business not related to slot machines. Perhaps Noel's had their own machines on the premises?  I also have quite a few with just initials which I assumed were for slot machines.  I'm confused.  ???
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on October 28, 2016, 08:14:57 AM
It is a slot machine token. I would suggest it was used in a machine located in a pub or wine saloon that sold that particular wine.

Or maybe they even owned the place where it was used?

The machine provider or travelling salesman would have a book of sample designs that you could have for your tokens [cheaper than having a design made] or you could use your name or initials whatever you preferred.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on October 28, 2016, 08:33:38 AM
Just speculating here, but Boulogne s/s, with its large crowds of blue-collar workers, seems like the perfect place for a bar à vin, a very French place of friendship, handshakes, mediocre food and wine served by the glass. An enterprising bar owner could sell these in packages of 12 or so for FF 3.00 and sell a glass of wine for 30 centimes or one token. Workers would buy them at pay day, before their wives could impound the money. ;)

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on October 28, 2016, 08:49:52 AM
I shall try and search the establishment out!  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on October 28, 2016, 08:51:40 AM
I doubt the machine is there now but you may be able to sample the wine!  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 22, 2016, 04:11:04 PM
A cloakroom token for the casino in Ostende, Belgium advertising Paul Ruinart champagne.  8)

* KURSAAL D`OSTENDE * / VESTIAIRE
CHAMPAGNE PAUL RUINART * / No (countermark 365)
Brass
3.9g
23.8mm

I've been after one of these for a while!  ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 22, 2016, 09:16:22 PM
Very nice and in great condition too.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on December 22, 2016, 10:02:37 PM
(countermark 365)




No of days in a non leap year 8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 23, 2016, 07:03:20 AM
Thanks guys.  ;D
Apparently the number 365 is unusual.  Thank you Wikipedia, as the line from the classic song goes  8)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 24, 2016, 03:12:05 PM
.WM MALCOLM. / 4 BROOMKNOLL STREET AIRDRIE / WINE / & SPIRIT / MERCHANT
.WM MALCOLM. / 4 BROOMKNOLL STREET AIRDRIE / 2d
Medal aligned
4.2g
15.1mm  8)
Apparently this is listed in Hayes.
Someone tried to drill it  :o
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 24, 2016, 03:14:26 PM
Slightly different to the piece at Reply #55

E.K. GREEN & Co LTD / WINE / MERCHANTS / CAPE TOWN /  (Countermark Y 8 )
According to posts on Rootsweb, a descendant runs Douglas Green Wines http://www.douglasgreenwines.com/about
And from the South African Directory 1883-1884 (Saul Solomon) : Green, Edward K (E.K. Green & Co), Observatory Rd, Cape Town

Here's a countermark '7'piece. http://www.abccoinsandtokens.com/SouthAfrica.Theron.C018.005.html
I suppose that each store had its own number. 
Can anyone tell me how many variants there are?  Many thanks.

Stores in Simonstown and Kimberley and apparently there is a card token. More info here http://www.tokencoins.com/tokens.htm#ekg

Some examples garnered from the internet attached
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 24, 2016, 03:17:23 PM
JONES & SONS / LTD / 1/- / VALUE / 1/- / WINE CLUB TOKEN
Possibly this lot http://www.shjones.com/
Holed  :'(
Aluminium
Uniface
2g
28mm
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 10, 2017, 04:20:55 PM
Thanks to a jolly nice fellow in England, I now have this in my collection.  ;D To go with the dollar which I forgot I had  :-[  See reply 56.
DEINHARD WINE FLORIN / YOU PAY
.DEINHARD & CO.KOBLENZ. / GERMANY / 160 / YEARS / RHINE / & / MOSELLE / WINES
12.1g
32mm
Medal aligned
Spinner.  It spins on the '&.'
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: constanius on January 10, 2017, 05:00:24 PM
Very nice, I am struck by the "family resemblance" though ;D

(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn21/constanius/avatar_3514_1454092433%202-horz.jpg)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 10, 2017, 05:17:50 PM
How true!  ;D 8)  I didn't even spot it  :-[
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on January 10, 2017, 06:51:52 PM
E.K. GREEN & Co LTD / WINE / MERCHANTS / CAPE TOWN /  (Countermark Y 8 ) ... Here's a countermark '7'piece. http://www.abccoinsandtokens.com/SouthAfrica.Theron.C018.005.html
I suppose that each store had its own number. Can anyone tell me how many variants there are?  Many thanks.
Stores in Simonstown and Kimberley and apparently there is a card token. More info here http://www.tokencoins.com/tokens.htm#ekg
...

I have one copper piece without c/m and one with "4" on both sides in my collection and have a picture of another piece with a large "X".
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 10, 2017, 08:21:53 PM
Piccies please  ;)
So we have 4,7,X & Y8 as countermarks.
I also see a number of variations in the text size.  Any idea how many different ones are around?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Afrasi on January 10, 2017, 08:41:16 PM
I don't know how much different pieces there may be, but it will be interesting to collect pics over a longer time to study them.

The third one is missing the "Ltd".
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 10, 2017, 10:05:39 PM
First one I've seen without 'Ltd'  8)  I found another holed on on ebay.

Apparently they are listed in:
 Tokens of S Africa and their History (C16) - Dr G P Theron.
 Maynard's 1966 book of S African tokens.
 Brian Hern's catalogue of Southern African tokens (2009): Item 252 listed on page 117
Source: http://www.tokencoins.com/tokens.htm

And an '8' countermark here
http://www.abccoinsandtokens.com/SouthAfrica.Theron.C018.006.html

So now we have 4,7,8,X & Y8 as countermarks.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 10, 2017, 10:26:40 PM
Apparently they are listed in:
 Tokens of S Africa and their History (C16) - Dr G P Theron.

Here is Theron (1978) [actually C18] the only one I have. BTW several wine merchants are listed here.

A low resolution scan so that I don't have to compress it. I can't flatten the book as its one of those that fall apart if this is done.
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 11, 2017, 06:10:44 AM
Excellent! Many thanks Mal ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 17, 2017, 02:54:30 PM
.HIDE & DE CARLE. / GROCERS & WINE MERCHANTS / . ELIZABETH STREET . / MELBOURNE
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA. / 1858
34.15mm
14.3g
Medal aligned.
More info here  http://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/55261
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 17, 2017, 02:56:44 PM
H.J.BANG, / RESTAURANT / 231 / BROADWAY.
*IMPORTER OF * / RHINE WINES. / GLAUBRECHT
My first New York piece  8)
4.3g
21.4mm
Coin aligned
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 17, 2017, 04:22:39 PM
3 continents in a day!
OICC WINE MESS

Medal aligned
4.25g
21mm
Officers in Charge of Construction in the Vietnam War. These tokens were used in lieu of Military Payment certificates (that only came in note form) in Mess halls, Clubs and machines.
Source: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/officers-wine-club-oicc-mpc-token-107450137
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on January 17, 2017, 09:28:51 PM
Strange font in OICC  :o
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 17, 2017, 10:09:01 PM
Strange font in OICC  :o
Locally made?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: Figleaf on January 18, 2017, 10:00:01 AM
A military organisation would have the brass ;) and would probably have the machinery to make the blanks, but they would probably not have the machinery to make dies or the coin presses. IIRC, there was no mint in Saigon at the time. They may possibly have been made in Japan or Korea.

Peter
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: maxmissy on January 18, 2017, 10:09:30 AM
Could it be " O/CC " ?
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on January 18, 2017, 10:28:40 AM
Could it be " O/CC " ?
Could be. Nice thought ;D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 07, 2017, 11:20:04 AM
PAVILLON / DES / VINS MOUSSEUX / DE SAUMUR / CLASSE 60
BON / POUR / UN VERRE  8)

Brass
2.3g
21.55mm
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 07, 2017, 11:58:46 AM
A military organisation would have the brass ;) and would probably have the machinery to make the blanks, but they would probably not have the machinery to make dies or the coin presses. IIRC, there was no mint in Saigon at the time. They may possibly have been made in Japan or Korea.

Peter

The military type tokens, along with the slot machines, were made by Sega Games Co., Ltd.

SEGA originally short for Service Games and officially styled as SEGA, is a Japanese multinational video game developer and publisher headquartered in Tokyo, Japan.

See more here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega)
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on May 17, 2017, 10:08:49 PM
Latest acquisitions  8)
CHAMPAGNE C. GAUTHIER & CIE *EPERNAY* / L.REDON / ET / E.PELLETIER / AGENTS GÉNÉRAUX / INTÉRESSÉS
10
Coin aligned
1.05g
24.12mm
1.2mm thick
Elie Epernay Champagne Gauthier & Cie. 20.2

CHAMPAGNE C. GAUTHIER & CIE *EPERNAY* / L.REDON / ET / E.PELLETIER / AGENTS GÉNÉRAUX / INTÉRESSÉS
20
Medal aligned
2.64g
29.3mm
1.8mm thick
Elie Not listed

There is also a '5' Elie 20.1 which I do not have :(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on May 18, 2017, 12:23:03 AM
Very nice grapevine on the reverse - you shall have to try there for the 5  :D
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: redwine on December 22, 2017, 09:50:32 AM
This was on ebay recently.  Too pricey for me :'(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: malj1 on December 22, 2017, 11:56:17 AM
Bone, Algeria usually command high prices like the Egyptian ones.  :'(   :(
Title: Re: Wine related tokens
Post by: gerard974 on April 30, 2020, 02:54:32 PM
hello
is not one token ,but is a pleasure for the good wine ,sorry is in French
best regards Gerard

https://attachment.outlook.live.net/owa/MSA%3Adelagegerard%40hotmail.com/service.svc/s/GetFileAttachment?id=AQMkADAwATYwMAItODNiZC0xNzE0LTAwAi0wMAoARgAAA515xQJxp1VFu5rCJnrtn8sHAPjub49mTY1ErxzV1AZry0cAAAIBCgAAAPjub49mTY1ErxzV1AZry0cAA3QldaUAAAABEgAQAK8gAXzEfrJGk7MlfbigCVs%3D&owa=outlook.live.com&scriptVer=2020042001.15&isc=1&X-OWA-CANARY=f1skVHoLkEadKD1DS5Fbz5BxuOT_7NcYzBMKgKY-JvQ6fiVkAUC9_3dQZ0zqu6r_ohcyjR38Un4.&token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6IjU2MzU4ODUyMzRCOTI1MkRERTAwNTc2NkQ5RDlGMjc2NTY1RjYzRTIiLCJ4NXQiOiJWaldJVWpTNUpTM2VBRmRtMmRueWRsWmZZLUkiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QifQ.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.g26wGWcw1n9zEfX1-VKYWZ2t-Zf857f3iD3e_2_gl4W9e5nBIZjmZQVAdmfER7QXqsY_Sj06gmb-x9LEyyiGVNtzwl6PWSiVv5VMfI9UhOD8Q_P3hRd3UqBvH_nSU4ezdHGS1f8j3mSiPt_9pnG5wxVb5UoaSIWoaiyanN6o4gSwn5ISlsryz1SivlQ1FNriY0cW3OW1D2VB51XdZj-1zfdTpVwoemqRDGFgt5IkEia7VY0ornJoHu0bvtu9IcL41L_NYL0ZKMHm8Babj8BAyt9pIwWEN9COLzlHtvn45uItOP4sSeZgqszXcqayaMFhEsTQlOqeGjjRlsTsURIwHw&isDownload=true&animation=true