World of Coins
Modern Asian coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens => Indian subcontinent: Mughal, Princely states and colonial (1526-1947) => British India => Topic started by: Overlord on March 01, 2008, 01:31:17 PM
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Here is a George VI 1 Rupee from my collection. As in the case of 1/4 and 1/2 Rupee coins, the silver content was reduced from 0.917 to 0.500 in 1940.
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii203/amitvyas03/Geo1-1.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii203/amitvyas03/Geo2-1.jpg)
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Bombay mint. This design is superb. The coin has obviously seen heavy circulation, yet all details (except the eyebrow) are there.
Peter
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The following is from Oesho:
Adain pointed out, with the above subject, the rarity of the 1939 issue. I
have attached an image of the 1939 rupee of George VI, Bombay mint from my
collection, which could be added to that page.
Rupees of the British Indian series are often found with countermarks
attributed to localities in the Middle East and East Africa. Those are
mostly applied on coins of Queen Victoria and earlier issues. On British
Indian coins of the post Victoria era countermarks are very seldom found.
Attached you find two countermarked rupees of George VI.
A) Rupee George VI, 1941 Bombay mint, c/m A.G.A.H./1943 (Provisional
Government Azad Hind / 1943). Azad Hind (Free India) was a movement founded
by Subhas Chandra Bose. The c/m was first published in the Numismatic Digest
vol. V - part I (1981). More recent an example of it is published in the
book Indian Tokens: Popular Religious & Secular Art from Ancient period to
the present day, by Michael Mitchiner (London 1998)
B) Rupee George VI, 1942 Bombay mint, c/m RAM in Hindi. RAM probably refers
to Rama, the hero from the Ramayana. Rama represents an ideal man, as
conceived by the Hindu mind. In the story of Ramayana, Rama's personality
depicts him as the perfect son, devoted brother, true husband, trusted
friend, ideal king, and a noble adversary. One can only guess why this
countermark has been applied on the effigy of George VI or would he also
posses the same virtues as RAM.
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The counter stamped coins are quite interesting and leads me to ask the following:
1. Were they done "leagally"? Isn't it against the rules of most counties (and in this case, colony) to alter official coinage?
2. Was the Chandra Bose counterstamp a piece of underground protest and political propaganda?
3. Could the "Ram" counterstamp have been made to render the coin "fit" as a temple token?
richie
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See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arzi_Hukumate_Azad_Hind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arzi_Hukumate_Azad_Hind)
Azad Hind was a government in exile and tried to set a up a new administration. Postal stamps were printed, but presumably not issued. The counter-stamping of the British Indian rupees, was not only an economic move but also propaganda. However not many of these coins have survived and less than half a dozen are only known.
When and where the countermark RAM has been applied, is absolutely not known. It can be done by anyone and at anytime. Political propaganda, religious memento, everything is possible. Only thing I can say that, as I haven't seen any other specimen so far, the use of this countermark must have been very limited.
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Here goes a few more coins on my want list. I presume these are now impossible to find, though. I have a comparable set of countermarks from Ireland (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,1461.0.html) that I'll show on the forum. In their case, it was Irish policy to withdraw "damaged" coins. Therefore, countermarking was not just propaganda, but also economic warfare. This may also have motivated the Indian countermarkers.
Peter
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I have such limited experience with countermarking. I'd love to see the Irish coins!
richie
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And today I saw two one rupee of post 1940 with most likely cancellation mark. But I cannot figure out the cause of those cancellation. The coins are cissled accross twice (like a cross).
Islam
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See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arzi_Hukumate_Azad_Hind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arzi_Hukumate_Azad_Hind)
Azad Hind was a government in exile and tried to set a up a new administration. Postal stamps were printed, but presumably not issued. The counter-stamping of the British Indian rupees, was not only an economic move but also propaganda. However not many of these coins have survived and less than half a dozen are only known.
I am indeed lucky to have one of this coin. Just see this thread for the image:
(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8758.0;attach=11661;image)
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,8758.0.html
Abhay
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Counter-marking for propaganda is very interesting! Whenever I hear counter-marked coinage, the following article comes to my mind.
http://www.cointalk.com/t52528/
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I came across a coin with King George V for the year 1939, is this a fake?
http://www.ebay.in/itm/One-rupee-India-1939-PURE-SILVER-COIN-91-7-/161858977861?hash=item25af8c0045:g:d0YAAOSwuTxV9xJl
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MjgwWDI4NA==/z/d0YAAOSwuTxV9xJl/$_12.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MjczWDI1OQ==/z/MzEAAOSwLqFV9xJl/$_12.JPG)
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Yes. It is 1000% fake. In 1939, George VI was the Ruler. So in no case, in 1939 George V coins can be there.
And why only George V? On ebay you can even find Victoria empress 1939 Coins (http://www.ebay.in/itm/BRITISH-INDIA-VICTORIA-EMPRESS-1939-ONE-RUPEE-SILVER-COATED-TOKEN-/161834071304?hash=item25ae0ff508:g:faoAAOSwjVVVm8II).
And for your information, a genuine 1939 Rupee coin will not cost less that 2-3 Lac rupees today.
Abhay
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What fun :D
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Yes. It is 1000% fake. In 1939, George VI was the Ruler. So in no case, in 1939 George V coins can be there.
And why only George V? On ebay you can even find Victoria empress 1939 Coins (http://www.ebay.in/itm/BRITISH-INDIA-VICTORIA-EMPRESS-1939-ONE-RUPEE-SILVER-COATED-TOKEN-/161834071304?hash=item25ae0ff508:g:faoAAOSwjVVVm8II).
And for your information, a genuine 1939 Rupee coin will not cost less that 2-3 Lac rupees today.
Abhay
Thanks Abhay, i could find this 1939 silver coin for 14,999/- and seems to be original.
could you please confirm if this is fake?
http://www.ebay.in/itm/India-1939-ONE-RUPEE-SILVER-COIN-KING-GEORGE-VI-SECURITY-EDGE-VARIETY-/111791293370?hash=item1a0747c3ba:g:n9EAAOSw9r1WBqve
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Srinath, Absolutely FAKE!!!! No doubt.
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Yes it's fake... tooled 1938 rupee... look carefully at the second '9' in the date and the '3'...they are different...here's the side by side comparison
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Thanks josephjk :)
Normally what would be the cost of George vi silver coins (1940 to 1945)
I see the prices in ebay around 450 to 500
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There exist no good silver coins of George VI from 1940 to 1945, they are all 500/1000 fineness or Quaternary standard.
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One of the follies of discussing prices on a forum like this is that prices change with time. These posts will be read by many people after several years and prices will be irrelevant. I would advice you to do your own research (ebay, auction houses etc.) and come to your own conclusions.
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There exist no good silver coins of George VI from 1940 to 1945, they are all 500/1000 fineness or Quaternary standard.
Thanks Oesho
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One of the follies of discussing prices on a forum like this is that prices change with time. These posts will be read by many people after several years and prices will be irrelevant. I would advice you to do your own research (ebay, auction houses etc.) and come to your own conclusions.
Thats fine josephjk, the prices we discuss here today might change with time but as of today the price of a coin is x and may be in 2025 we can see the price difference with this reference.
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Thats fine josephjk, the prices we discuss here today might change with time but as of today the price of a coin is x and may be in 2025 we can see the price difference with this reference.
Prices for Indian coins vary widely within the same grade.... then there are wide variations in price between grades. You may have to pick a grade you want in your collection and then do your due diligence. Hope you find your coins at a good price Srinath
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Prices for Indian coins vary widely within the same grade.... then there are wide variations in price between grades. You may have to pick a grade you want in your collection and then do your due diligence. Hope you find your coins at a good price Srinath
Thanks josephjk :)
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Dear Srinath,
For more details on the Genuineness of 1939 Rupee, see this topic, where 1939 rupee is discussed in details:
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,13212.0.html
Abhay
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Thats fine josephjk, the prices we discuss here today might change with time but as of today the price of a coin is x and may be in 2025 we can see the price difference with this reference.
Apart from grade differences, there is another lethal spoiler: the market is not deep enough for uniform price formation. That means that in the same building at the same time, two dealers may offer the same coin in the same grade but one may cost twice as much as the other and both may sell on the same day.
The question is never "what was it worth to someone else in the past?", but always "what is worth to you right now?" If the answer to that question depends on old transaction prices, you are almost guaranteed to be wrong - look up framing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_effect_(psychology)). Actually, making up your own mind is far more fun than making price statistics.
Peter
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Mr. Ranganath,
I would request you to review your 1939 Rupee carefully( and if possible get it slabbed). I own a PCGS slabbed 1939 rupee, and I can see a variation in the digit "3" of your rupee( see the attached picture of reverse of my coin). Also the strike of your rupee seems to be just a little soft, which increases the doubt just a little bit.
About the counter marked coins of Azad Hind Fauz, supposedly counter marked with PGAH, most of the coins available in the market are considered spurious issues. There is no way to check the genuineness of these coins, so one should not pay a lot of premium for these coins.
The following is from Oesho:
Adain pointed out, with the above subject, the rarity of the 1939 issue. I
have attached an image of the 1939 rupee of George VI, Bombay mint from my
collection, which could be added to that page.
Rupees of the British Indian series are often found with countermarks
attributed to localities in the Middle East and East Africa. Those are
mostly applied on coins of Queen Victoria and earlier issues. On British
Indian coins of the post Victoria era countermarks are very seldom found.
Attached you find two countermarked rupees of George VI.
A) Rupee George VI, 1941 Bombay mint, c/m A.G.A.H./1943 (Provisional
Government Azad Hind / 1943). Azad Hind (Free India) was a movement founded
by Subhas Chandra Bose. The c/m was first published in the Numismatic Digest
vol. V - part I (1981). More recent an example of it is published in the
book Indian Tokens: Popular Religious & Secular Art from Ancient period to
the present day, by Michael Mitchiner (London 1998)
B) Rupee George VI, 1942 Bombay mint, c/m RAM in Hindi. RAM probably refers
to Rama, the hero from the Ramayana. Rama represents an ideal man, as
conceived by the Hindu mind. In the story of Ramayana, Rama's personality
depicts him as the perfect son, devoted brother, true husband, trusted
friend, ideal king, and a noble adversary. One can only guess why this
countermark has been applied on the effigy of George VI or would he also
posses the same virtues as RAM.