World of Coins

Modern European coins except the euro => UK and Ireland => Pre-decimal coins and trade tokens => Topic started by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:19:21 PM

Title: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:19:21 PM
(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80484;image)



From Wikipedia:

Edward VIII, later The Duke of Windsor, was born in 1894 and died in 1972. He was King of the United Kingdom and the Dominions of the British Commonwealth, and Emperor of India, from 20 January to 11 December 1936. Before his accession to the throne Edward, as Prince of Wales, was associated with a succession of older, married women but remained unmarried.

Only months into his reign, Edward caused a constitutional crisis by proposing marriage to the American socialite Wallis Simpson, who had divorced her first husband and was seeking a divorce from her second. The prime ministers of the United Kingdom and the Dominions opposed the marriage, arguing that the people would never accept a divorced woman with two living ex-husbands as queen. Additionally, such a marriage would have conflicted with Edward's status as head of the Church of England, which opposed the remarriage of divorced people if their former spouses were still alive. Edward, who knew that the government led by British Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin would resign if the marriage went ahead, abdicated. He was succeeded by his younger brother Albert, who chose the regnal name George VI. With a reign of 326 days, Edward was one of the shortest-reigning monarchs in British and Commonwealth history. He was never crowned.

After his abdication, he was created Duke of Windsor. He married Wallis Simpson in France on 3 June 1937, after her second divorce became final. Later that year, the couple toured Germany. During the Second World War, he was at first stationed with the British Military Mission to France but, after private accusations that he held Nazi sympathies, moved to the Bahamas after his appointment as Governor. After the war, he was never given another official appointment and spent the remainder of his life in retirement in France.

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:22:11 PM
(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80483;image)



I used to think that Edward VIII was a numismatic non-entity, notable only for the fantasies, such as the one illustrated here, that were produced after his death, and his scarce pattern threepences. After all, due to his very short reign, no coins bearing his image were ever circulated. However, in recent months I have revised my opinion, and though I consider Edward VIII to have been a rather vain and shallow person, he did have some modernising and democratic instincts, and I now realise that his decisions as king had a profound effect on the coinage of King George VI.



EDWARD VIII: CROWNED AND UNCROWNED EFFIGIES

During the reign of George V, pressure grew throughout the Dominions for them to be allowed, like Britain, to use the uncrowned effigy. After all, they were now equal to Britain (even if Britain was, as head of the Empire, still first among equals), yet their coinage still resembled that of the colonies in being required to use the crowned head. Curiously, a system that had developed for very practical reasons was now seen as symbolic of a hierarchy, and the Dominions were keen to see their new status acknowledged on that most visible of national symbols, the coinage. However, George V died in January 1936, without their wish having been realised.

That was soon to change, and evidence for this can be found in an old Royal Mint document. Edward VIII acceded to the throne on 20th January 1936, and on 21st February 1936, Sir Robert Johnson, the Deputy Mint Master, wrote the following letter to the South African High Commissioner:

“When the Union Government [of South Africa] started to issue a currency of their own, the question arose as to whether the Royal Effigy should show the civil head, as in this country, or the crowned head as in all other parts of the British Commonwealth of Nations. The feeling in South Africa was rather strongly in favour of the civil head, but in deference to the personal views of King George V on this matter, they agreed to allow the crowned effigy to appear on his coins for the Union. I have now taken the opportunity to raise this question afresh and have today received the King's commands to the effect that he would wish every Dominion to say which effigy, crowned or uncrowned, they would desire to see on the new coins. Not only so, but he wished me specially to add that, so far as he personally was concerned, he would like to see them adopt the civil head in future. I thought your own government would like to have early information on a point which, I feel sure, will give them great satisfaction.”

No doubt Sir Robert wrote a similar letter to the representatives of the other Dominions. It is now clear that, in having previously denied the uncrowned effigy to the Dominions, the Royal Mint had deferred to the wishes of George V. Unfortunately, I have never found any record of that king’s precise opinions on this issue.
For Britain, 1936 was the year of the three kings: George V had died on 20th January, to be succeeded by Edward VIII, who subsequently abdicated on the 11th December, after refusing to give up his relationship with Wallis Simpson, an American divorcee. Here is a letter from Sir Robert Johnson, Deputy Master of the Royal Mint, dated 21st December 1936, to one of the Palace officials, enquiring about the wishes of the new king, George VI:

“As you know, it was King Edward VIII's decision that whereas hitherto the coinage for the Dominions showed crowned effigies of the Sovereign, these should in future show the uncrowned head as at home and that the crowned head should in future be used only on the coinage of India and of the colonies and dependencies of the Crown. This decision was very popular throughout the Dominions and in the main it distinguishes His Majesty's subjects of European from those of non-European origin.

I should be grateful if I might be informed as early as ever possible whether, as I assume will be the case, this decision is to be maintained for the new reign.”

As we now know, that decision was indeed implemented. The great surprise is that the change was initiated by Edward VIII, whom I had always regarded as being of minimal importance in numismatics. After all, due to his very short reign, no coins bearing his image were ever circulated – though a few trials were minted, and plenty of fantasy pieces were afterwards released onto the market. The radically new coin series eventually issued for George VI, with its ship halfpenny, wren farthing and thrift plant threepence (brass and 12-sided), also had its origins in Edward’s desire for more modern designs. Perhaps, then, it is time to reappraise that monarch’s contribution to numismatics.

Nowadays the stated policy of distinguishing Europeans from non-Europeans appears overtly racist. And it was not entirely true: Jersey, as a Crown Dependency, was still required to use the crowned effigy. What would its almost uniformly white inhabitants have thought, in those days, about being lumped in with India and Africa? On the other hand, the Dominions were now, numismatically at least, regarded as equals with Britain, so the policy had both a democratising and an anti-democratic side.

 
 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:26:02 PM
Once Edward became king, he made it clear that he was very keen to modernise the coinage of the United Kingdom. The results were a bit of a mixed bag: the wren on the farthing, the Golden Hind ship on the halfpenny and stylised thrift plant on the threepence were most definitely, for the very conservative Britain of the times, radically modern designs. 




(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5327.0;attach=6446;image)

Thrift plant.





(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23679.0;attach=79706;image) 

Wren.




(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=27020.0;attach=44571;image)

Golden Hind.

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:28:46 PM
Unfortunately, the designs for the sixpence, shilling, florin and half crown remained resolutely heraldic. Looking at them now, it is clear that the designs for the lower denominations and higher denominations belonged to two different conceptual sets. This becomes even clearer when you look at the proposed set that the farthing came from.



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3345.0;attach=78517;image)  (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3345.0;attach=78518;image)



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3345.0;attach=78519;image)  (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3345.0;attach=78520;image)



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3345.0;attach=78521;image)  (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3345.0;attach=78522;image)

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:31:15 PM
However, without Edward’s influence, it is likely that the designs of the British coinage would have been uniformly old-fashioned and heraldic, and the reverse designs for the farthing, halfpenny and penny were retained not just in the reign of George VI, but to the end of the pre-decimal system, under Elizabeth II. Whether George VI would, of his own accord, have shown an interest in modern coin design is something we do not know, but there is nothing in his history that suggests he would have. Moreover, George was more accepting of tradition than his elder brother and never keen to “rock the boat”. So it seems that, because of George VI’s decision to retain these three designs, Edward’s desire to modernise the coinage came partly true in the 1930s.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:40:26 PM
Some patterns from Edward's reign still exist, so we can get an idea of what his coinage might have looked like. Possibly most famous is his brass threepence, some of which were sent out to vending machine manufacturers as trials. Not all of these were returned, and a handful subsequently turned up in auctions! In the 1990s I read that one had sold for 25 thousand UK pounds sterling!

Edward famously refused to face in the opposite direction to his father on his coins, as tradition demanded, and insisted that his left side looked better in portraits. Was this purely vanity, or perhaps a desire to defy tradition?

In any case, in the reign of George VI the brass threepenny bit proved to be a very popular coin, as the public found the much smaller and thinner silver threepence an inconvenient coin, which was very easily lost. It was last minted in 1970, a year before decimalisation - another example of Edward's lasting influence on the coinage.

As you can see, Edward's pattern threepence came in two varieties.



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80486;image)



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80488;image)

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:45:48 PM
Pattern crowns, half crowns and pennies also exist. The official uncrowned effigy of Edward was created by Humphrey Paget, who also went on to design the famous uncrowned effigy of George VI.



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80481;image)



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80482;image)



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80487;image)

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:49:03 PM
William McMillan, a Royal Academician, was also asked to prepare a portrait of Edward. It is seen here on a trial uniface half crown. Apparently the king thought it looked rather stern, and he preferred Paget's more flattering effigy.



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80489;image)




(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80492;image)(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80490;image)

This is Humphrey Paget's portrait of the king, with a pattern reverse for the half crown by George Kruger-Gray.

Images courtesy of Numismaster (http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis.jsp)



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80493;image)(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80491;image)

The silver and brass threepence coins circulated side by side for some years. Here is a pattern threepence created for Edward. A similar sixpence pattern was created (not illustrated) showing six interlocking rings. The rings on the sixpence remind me of the Olympics logo, and perhaps it is not a coincidence that the Olympic games took place in 1936.

Images courtesy of Numismaster (http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis.jsp)

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 08:51:29 PM
Trials were also made for commemorative coronation coins and medals. Here you see the crowned and uncrowned effigies of Edward.



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80494;image)  (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80495;image)

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 09:01:09 PM
Though no coin bearing the portrait of Edward VIII was ever officially circulated, in the UK or anywhere else, coins bearing his name were issued, dated 1936, for Fiji, New Guinea, and the currency unions of East Africa and British West Africa.




(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80496;image)

Fiji issued a penny in his name.




(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80497;image)

New Guinea also issued a penny in his name.




(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30889.0;attach=51668;image)

British West Africa issued a 1/10 penny, a halfpenny, and a penny in Edward's name.




(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22419.0;attach=72092;image)

East Africa issued a 5 cents and 10 cents coin in Edward's name.


 
 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 09:02:42 PM
The Indian states of Jodhpur, Jaipur and Kutch also issued coins in Edward's name, in the local script.



Our member Figleaf has kindly provided images of some of the coins from Kutch:

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80502;image) (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80501;image)

These images show a silver 5 kori of 1936/1992 (Y67). On the obverse (left) you can see, within a circle, a moon above a trident and a katar (dagger), and in Nagari lettering "kori panch/Kuch Bhuj/1992" (denomination, state, mint, date). Around, outside the circle, are the name and titles of the ruler: Maharaja Dhiraj Mirjan Maharao Sri Khengarji Bahadur. The text in the centre of the reverse, in Urdu characters, is "Edward 8 kaisar Hind zarb Bhuj 1936" (Edward VIII, emperor of India, struck at Bhuj 1936). The one and 2-1/2 kori only have a different denomination and size, but are otherwise similar.



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80500;image)

This is the name of the king as it appears on the coins.



(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80504;image) (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80503;image)

These images show a copper 3 dokda (singular: dokdo) 1936/1993 (Y63). The image below shows a trident in the centre, above a Nagari text: "tran dokda 1993" (denomination, date). The circular legend reads: "Maharao Sri Khengarji Savai Bahadur". Between the stars below is Kutch. On the upper image is a katar above the date 1936. Below between the stars is "zarb Bhuj" (struck at Bhuj); above is "Edward 8 kaisar Hind"  (Edward VIII emperor of India).



More images found by Figleaf: these coins of 1936 are from Jaipur and in the name of Edward VIII.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80506;image) (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80505;image)

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80508;image) (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80507;image)

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 09:04:07 PM
Edward's portrait did appear on Britain's stamps, in considerable numbers, and they are not expensive to buy. Only four of his stamps were ever issued.
 
(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80498;image)

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 09:05:48 PM
There are also many essays of stamps for Edward that were never issued. Here is just part of one set.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=80499;image)

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 09:46:25 PM
After Edward VIII abdicated, the new king, and especially his wife, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (better known to us as the late Queen Mother), made it clear that he was not well seen by them, or by the Establishment at large. It is perhaps not surprising, then, that history has taken a dim view of him, given that the powerful reigning Windsor dynasty turned against him. After all, was it really so awful that he gave up the throne for the woman he loved, and stayed with her till the end of his life? Of course, it might also have been considered noble for him to have given up his love in favour of his duty to his country. But after he abdicated, there was another king to take his place - though we know that initially the new king did not feel at ease with his new destiny.

In 1937, as Duke of Windsor, Edward, along with Wallis Simpson, notoriously paid a visit to Hitler. With hindsight we can criticise him for this, but we can also say that, while he may at times have been vain or even foolish in his later life, he was not fundamentally a bad or evil person, and he also had the propaganda of the Windsor dynasty to cope with. But however we may judge him as a person, it is clear now that the decisions he made as king had a profound effect on the coinage of Britain and its Empire, with the result that his numismatic legacy was considerably longer lasting than the ten months of his short reign.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 25, 2011, 09:46:37 PM
Click on the links below for further reading on subjects related to this topic:

1] Use of the Crowned and Uncrowned Effigies in the Commonwealth (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,4364.0.html) 

2] Comments on Use of the Crowned and Uncrowned Effigies in the Commonwealth (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,4354.0.html)

3] Humphrey Paget, Coin Designer (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,4118.0.html)

4] UK Royal Animals: Rejected Designs of 1936 (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,3345.0.html)

5] Threepences of the British Empire and Commonwealth (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,12529.0.html)
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Overlord on November 26, 2011, 03:47:42 AM
Various Indian states also issued coins in Edward's name, in the local script.
The Jodhpur coins citing Edward VIII are illustrated here (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,2532.0.html). The other Indian states to issue coins in his name are Jaipur and Kutch.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Coinsforever on November 26, 2011, 11:37:34 AM
I used to think that Edward VIII was a numismatic non-entity,

Me too thinking the same way  due to short reign and uncrowned status If I'm not wrong.

However some common wealth nations had devoted few coins to him.

Interesting thread.
Cheers ;D

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 26, 2011, 12:07:56 PM
...and uncrowned status If I'm not wrong.

Yes, he was the king who was never crowned. And his brother George VI lost his title as Emperor after India became independent; so there was still a British Empire, but after that it was an empire without an emperor.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Overlord on November 27, 2011, 04:02:02 AM
The Indian Security Press, Nasik had prepared the design for the King Edward VIII stamps to be issued in India at the time of his coronation, but the work did not proceed beyond essay designs.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: malj1 on November 27, 2011, 04:31:41 AM
Abdication medal of Edward VIII from Pinches London. Gilt - presumably brass or copper - 35mm.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Overlord on November 27, 2011, 01:48:15 PM
In Australia, a £1 note showing the portrait of Edward VIII was designed but never issued.

(http://www.rba.gov.au/Museum/Displays/_Images/1920_1960/1_pound_note_big.jpg)
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on November 27, 2011, 02:13:30 PM
In Australia, a £1 note showing the portrait of Edward VIII was designed but never issued.

(http://www.rba.gov.au/Museum/Displays/_Images/1920_1960/1_pound_note_big.jpg)

Another rarity. So, while I hunt for unrealised coin designs, it seems you know where to look for the never-issued banknote designs.  8)
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on December 02, 2011, 07:17:24 PM
I have added small images of the patterns for the reverse of Edward's silver threepence and half crown to this post:

http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,12573.msg85134.html#msg85134


Apparently the interlocking rings on the threepence are known as Saint Edmund's rings. Does anybody know the significance of these?
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Figleaf on December 02, 2011, 09:01:51 PM
Now when King Offa came to Saxony, Edmund was appointed to accompany him; and the old king was immediately struck by the beauty, both physical and spiritual, of the young prince, and by the zeal of his service. He applied to him the words of Solomon: "Hast thou seen a man swift in his work? He shall stand before kings and shall not be in obscurity" (Proverbs 22.29). Then in the presence of the whole court he embraced him and, putting a ring on his finger, said: "My most beloved son Edmund, accept this memento of our kinship and mutual love. Remember me as one grateful for your service, for which with God's permission I hope to leave you a paternal inheritance." Edmund's father hastened to explain to him the significance of this ceremony: was he prepared to accept King Offa as his adoptive father in place of his natural father? On Edmund's acceptance, Offa tearfully drew from his finger his ring - in fact, it was a coronation ring - and said: "Son Edmund, observe closely this ring, notice its design and seal. If, when I am far away, I intimate to you by this token my wish and desire, do you without delay execute my order. As the noble assembly here bears witness, I intend to regard you as my most beloved son and heir."

Then Offa continued on his pilgrimage. Having arrived in the Holy Land and venerated the Holy Places, he set out on his return journey via Constantinople. But as he was sailing through the Hellespont, he fell ill; so, disembarking at the monastery of St. George, he received the Holy Mysteries and prepared for death. His last act was to entrust his kingdom of East Anglia to Edmund, ordering his nobles to take his ring to Saxony as a token of his will. Then he reposed in peace and was buried in St.George's Bay on the Hellespont in the year 854.

Source: http://www.orthodox.net/western-saints/edmund-martyr-king-of-east-anglia.html
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: andyg on December 02, 2011, 09:08:50 PM
Nothing like a bit of fiction to liven up the day - nice subject for a coin though!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Edmund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Edmund)

Quote
Edmund was a king of East Anglia,[2] of whom almost nothing is known. The earliest authority for him is Abbo of Fleury, who wrote Passio Santi Eadmundi for the monks of Ramsay in the 980s. Abbo stated that Edmund came "ex antiquorum Saxonum nobili prosapia oriundus".[3] This has confused later translators into thinking that he was of continental Old Saxon origin, but according to the historian Steven Plunkett, Edmund was East Anglian, a country settled by Saxons.[4]

Edmund's fictitious continental origins were later expanded into legends which spoke of his parentage, his birth at Nuremberg, his adoption by Offa of Mercia, his nomination as successor to the king and his landing at Hunstanton on the North Norfolk coast to claim his kingdom.[5]

De Infantia Sancti Edmundi, a fictitious 12th century hagiography of Edmund's early life by Geoffrey of Wells, represented him as the youngest son of 'Alcmund', a Saxon king of Germanic descent. 'Alcmund' is a semi-historical figure who may never have existed.[6] Other accounts state that his father was the king he succeeded, Æthelweard of East Anglia, who died in 854, apparently when Edmund was a boy of fourteen.


Quite fitting I suppose a fantasy subject for a fantasy coin!
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: andyg on December 02, 2011, 10:24:01 PM
How about a non-existant subject for a non-existant king?

Will that do ;D

Seriously though - are these not patterns rather than trials?
The brass 3d were trials - sent to machine makers for testing.*

*this may actually be an urban myth, it's another of those tales which is in every book but when you investigate very little official information is actually known.....
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on December 02, 2011, 10:52:20 PM
How about a non-existant subject for a non-existant king?

Will that do ;D

Seriously though - are these not patterns rather than trials?

Again you have a point. I don't know whether the silver threepence design was intended to be USED (remember, the silver threepence continued alongside the brass threepence for some years), in which case it would be a trial, or whether it was minted just to see how such a coin would look and wear - in which case it would be a pattern. But someone somewhere knows the answer.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: malj1 on December 02, 2011, 10:58:34 PM
Again you have a point. I don't know whether the silver threepence design was intended to be USED (remember, the silver threepence continued alongside the brass threepence for some years),

It used to be said the silver threepence continued for use in Scotland. ....certainly my Scottish aunt gave me some at the time, but maybe more likely for Malta and other colonies?
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: malj1 on December 10, 2011, 11:21:28 PM
Spotted on eBay today...
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Arminius on December 11, 2011, 10:38:54 AM
As a baby:

(http://www.arminius-numismatics.com/coppermine1414/cpg1414/albums/userpics/10001/med02.jpg)

Queen Victoria Diamond Jubilee bronze medal, London, 1897 AD.,
Bronze medal with partial silvering (32 mm / 11,48 g), old penny size,
Obv.: FOUR GENERATIONS OF THE - BRITISH ROYAL FAMILY / 10. SEP.95. H.GRUEBER. 1987 37 SNOWHILL LONDON E.C. / CPYRIGHT , crown over busts of four generations of the Royal Family in centre facing left, the Queen and her heirs in the next three generations. Starting right with Queen Victoria followed by Edward VII, George VI and a very young Edward VIII, silvering at the queen´s crown.
Rev.: TO COMMEMORATE THE 60TH YEAR OF HER MAJESTY'S REIGN. / 1837-97 // THE DIAMOND JUBILEE , crown over three shields in centre, the arms of England, Scotland and Ireland, with legend surround.
.

By the way: has this issue a (eg. BHM) reference?  ???

 :)
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Figleaf on December 11, 2011, 11:22:24 PM
The name Grueber rang a little bell. Forrer seems disdainful.

GRUEBER, HENRY A. (Germ.). Contemporary Die-sinker or Publisher of medals residing in London. Most of his productions are cheap medalets, sold in the streets at a penny apiece. I have seen by him :
-- Queen Victoria's Jubilee, 1887;
-- Silver Wedding of the Prince and Princess of Wales, 1888;
-- Visit of the German Emperor to London, 1891 ;
-- Marriage of the Duke and Duchess of York, 1893;
-- Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, 1897; "
-- Imitation Pond of President Kruger; Death of Queen Victoria;
-- Accession of King Edward VII. ;
-- Coronation of King Edward VII. ;
-- Lactopeptine token (" Patent ") ; &c.
These medalets are made in papier mache covered over with a shell struck in thin metal. Some of the medalets are signed H. G. & Co.

However, there is also a Herbert Appold Grueber (1846-1927), a very serious numismatist with a great liking of medals. He became keeper of the Department of Coins and Medals of the British Museum and secretary of the royal numismatic society. His writing includes:

-- Roman medallions in the British Museum, London, 1874
-- Medallic Illustrations of the History of Great Britain and Ireland to the death of George II, London, 1885 (with Augustus Franks)
-- English Personal Medals from 1760, Numismatic Chronicle, 1888-1891
-- British Museum Guide of English Medals, London, 1891
-- Handbook of the Coins of Great Britain and Ireland in the British Museum, London, 1899.
-- Coins of the Roman Republic in the British Museum, London, 1910

Are Henry and Herbert the same person? Evil twins? Family? Unrelated?

Peter
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: malj1 on December 13, 2011, 01:58:27 AM
As a baby:
(http://www.arminius-numismatics.com/coppermine1414/cpg1414/albums/userpics/10001/med02.jpg)

Queen Victoria Diamond Jubilee bronze medal, London, 1897 AD.,
Bronze medal with partial silvering (32 mm / 11,48 g), old penny size,
Obv.: FOUR GENERATIONS OF THE - BRITISH ROYAL FAMILY / 10. SEP.95. H.GRUEBER. 1987 37 SNOWHILL LONDON E.C. / CPYRIGHT , crown over busts of four generations of the Royal Family in centre facing left, the Queen and her heirs in the next three generations. Starting right with Queen Victoria followed by Edward VII, George VI and a very young Edward VIII, silvering at the queen´s crown.
Rev.: TO COMMEMORATE THE 60TH YEAR OF HER MAJESTY'S REIGN. / 1837-97 // THE DIAMOND JUBILEE , crown over three shields in centre, the arms of England, Scotland and Ireland, with legend surround.
By the way: has this issue a (eg. BHM) reference?  ???:)

I have always dismissed these without much thought but now realise they are not all the same, mine is dated 1896 while the reverse advertises the patronage of the Remington Typewriter Co. 100 Gracechurch St. by Queen Victoria.

A huge Edward VIII collection was sold by auction last year at Spink's see here... http://www.spink.com/auctions/pdf/1019.pdf (http://www.spink.com/auctions/pdf/1019.pdf) the first five lots comprise many of these Grueber pieces.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Abhay on December 13, 2011, 02:39:27 AM
The Royal Mint of Canada has issued a Copper medal, commemorating Edward VIII.

Abhay
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: malj1 on December 31, 2011, 04:34:16 AM
I have always dismissed these without much thought but now realise they are not all the same, mine is dated 1896 while the reverse advertises the patronage of the Remington Typewriter Co. 100 Gracechurch St. by Queen Victoria.

found another type today on flickr - Pearcy's Toronto, 1897
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: malj1 on March 22, 2012, 07:16:41 AM
Quote
Edward famously refused to face in the opposite direction to his father on his coins, as tradition demanded, and insisted that his left side looked better in portraits. Was this purely vanity, or perhaps a desire to defy tradition?

This coronation souvenir has Edward VIII facing to the right. ...and wearing a crown.  :)
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Figleaf on March 23, 2012, 10:44:55 PM
Yes, but the king had nothing to say about how he was pictured on the medal. The words "British Made" make it clear that this is a private issue.

Peter
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Arminius on May 15, 2012, 07:14:59 PM
Just identified: a hammered copper in his name:

(http://www.arminius-numismatics.com/coppermine1414/cpg1414/albums/userpics/10001/AIT08.jpg)

India, Jodhpur, 1936 AD., Umaid Singh and Edward VIII, ¼ Anna, KM 132.

 :)
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on July 20, 2014, 08:20:26 PM
Plaster of crowned portrait of EVIII, by William McMillan.  Copyright: Royal Mint Museum.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on July 20, 2014, 08:21:00 PM
Plaster of crowned portrait of EVIII, by Percy Metcalfe.  Copyright: Royal Mint Museum.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on July 20, 2014, 08:21:40 PM
Plaster of crowned portrait of EVIII, by Percy Metcalfe.  Copyright: Royal Mint Museum.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on July 20, 2014, 08:22:59 PM
Plaster for the half crown by Humphrey Paget, made during the review of the coinage during the reign of EVIII.

Copyright: Royal Mint Museum.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on July 20, 2014, 08:25:22 PM
Plaster for the shilling, by Harold Wilson-Parker, made during the review of the coinage during the reign of EVIII. Copyright: Royal Mint Museum.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on July 20, 2014, 08:30:13 PM
Pattern crown portrait of EVIII, by Humphrey Paget.  Copyright: Royal Mint Museum.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on July 20, 2014, 08:32:55 PM
Search The Royal Mint Museum collection (http://collection.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/?mwsQueryTemplate=[{control%3DcountryList}{index%3Dcountry}{relation%3D*%3D*}) for more patterns from this period.

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: coinlover on January 01, 2015, 12:01:33 PM
Here are two coins (one kori and five kories ) of Kutch from my collection. These are in the name of Edward VIII.

Anjan
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: malj1 on January 17, 2016, 01:43:57 AM
A fantasy Edward VIII threepence dated 1936 noticed on eBay today.
Title: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Bimat on October 21, 2016, 05:24:53 PM
Rare Edward VIII coin showing profile of monarch's 'better side' goes on display

A rare Edward VIII gold sovereign has gone on display showing how the monarch broke with tradition - by demanding his profile faced in the wrong direction.

Last updated: 21 October 2016, 15:50 BST

A rare Edward VIII gold sovereign has gone on display showing how the monarch broke with tradition - by demanding his profile faced in the wrong direction.

Edward thought his left side, showing the side parting in his hair, was better than his right, which featured a solid fringe, and insisted this was used.

He was breaking with tradition because coins struck following the accession of a monarch normally show the new King or Queen looking in the opposite direction to royal profiles on their predecessor's coins.

The gold sovereign - part of a commemorative set - was never issued because just as the Royal Mint was gearing up to produce a full set of coins the King dramatically abdicated, renouncing the throne on December 10 1936 to be with American divorcee Wallis Simpson.

At the time the Royal Mint's reducing machines were at work miniaturising the designs to coin and medal sizes and punches and dies for striking the coins were being made.

Coin production was scheduled to begin at 8am on January 1 1937 but was abandoned, and today all that exists are some extremely rare patterns and trial pieces including the sovereign, and a number of coins with private collectors.

Humphrey Paget created the coinage portrait of Edward and on one occasion when he went to have a sitting with the King, the monarch did not turn up and could not be found and a courtier reportedly said "this would never have happened in his father's time".

Graham Dyer, senior curator at the Royal Mint, said: "The tradition of the monarch's head facing in the opposite direction to his predecessor dates back to King Charles II in the 17th Century, so according to this tradition, Edward VIII's effigy should have faced to the right.

"Instead, Edward VIII insisted that his profile face left on the coin, so that the parting of his hair was visible. He thought that this was his better side, and that inclusion of the parting would break up what might otherwise look like a solid fringe of hair."

Following his abdication, Edward VIII requested a set of the coins as a memento, but his brother George VI declined as they had never been issued, were not deemed to be official UK coinage and had not gone through the Royal Proclamation process.

Edward, who was known to his family by his 7th forename of David, and Mrs Simpson married in June 1937 following her second divorce.

They became the Duke and Duchess of Windsor and spent most of the rest of their lives in exile in France, with the duke dying in 1972 and the duchess in 1986.

The rare sovereign has gone on display at the Royal Mint Experience, the Royal Mint's new visitor attraction in Llantrisant, South Wales.

Source: BT (http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/rare-edward-viii-coin-showing-profile-of-monarchs-better-side-goes-on-display-11364107108997)
Title: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Bimat on December 17, 2016, 07:41:47 AM
Happened to spot this Gibraltar crown depicting King Edward VIII. He looks so modern on this coin... ;)

Aditya
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: zwiggy on March 02, 2018, 04:09:49 AM
https://coinweek.com/education/coin-exhibits/inaugural-exhibit-of-tyrant-collection-treasures-includes-first-usa-display-of-rare-1937-edward-viii-proof-set/ (https://coinweek.com/education/coin-exhibits/inaugural-exhibit-of-tyrant-collection-treasures-includes-first-usa-display-of-rare-1937-edward-viii-proof-set/)

This was up for viewing at Long Beach last month and included one of the 4? complete British Edward VIII proof sets. Heard the exhibit itself was fabulous.
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on May 08, 2020, 10:59:09 PM
From September 2019:

A UK auction record for a copper coin was set when a rare Edward VIII 1937 pattern penny sold at Spink & Son.

Rare King Edward VIII’s abdication coin makes UK auction record (https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2019/rare-king-edward-viii-s-abdication-coin-makes-uk-auction-record/)

Images copyright of Spink & Son (https://www.spink.com).
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on June 28, 2020, 06:16:23 PM
From the Guardian newspaper:

British state 'covered up plot to assassinate King Edward VIII' (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/28/british-state-covered-up-plot-to-assassinate-king-edward-viii)

EXTRACTS.

In 1936, an MI5 informant called George McMahon tried to assassinate King Edward VIII as he rode his horse near Buckingham Palace. Just as he was taking aim with a revolver, a woman in the crowd grabbed his arm and a policeman punched him, causing the weapon to fly into the road and strike the monarch’s mount.

At his Old Bailey trial, McMahon insisted that a foreign power had paid him to kill the king and that he had deliberately bungled the assassination. Portrayed as a fantasist, he was convicted on a lesser offence of “unlawfully possessing a firearm and ammunition to endanger life” and imprisoned for 12 months.

Now claims of a cover-up at the highest level have emerged following the discovery of the would-be assassin’s memoir, in which he detailed the plot, his subsequent arrest and trial.

The previously unpublished account was discovered by the historian Alexander Larman, who told the Guardian that its claims are “explosive” because crucial details match those in declassified MI5 documents, including memos of their meetings with him.

Larman said: “McMahon’s account corroborates a large amount of previously confidential and sealed MI5 documentation in the National Archives, which reveals that McMahon was also a paid MI5 informant who was passing them information about the workings of the Italian embassy in his guise as a double agent.

“McMahon informed MI5 that there would be an attempt on Edward’s life in the summer of 1936, but they ignored his information, dismissing him as unreliable. When this indeed took place on 16 July, it became hugely embarrassing to the country and a cover-up took place.”

“It is entirely possible that MI5 were aware of McMahon’s planned attempt and were happy to let him assassinate Edward, thereby removing an internationally embarrassing monarch with believed Nazi sympathies from the throne. Or, alternatively, simply that they were embarrassed by their arrogance and incompetence.”
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on September 04, 2020, 08:08:26 PM
See also: King Edward VIII fantasy pieces by George Alfred Holman (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=49351.0).

We now know that the former king approved of the production of Holman's particular fantasies. They are not the only fantasies that exist, of course. Later fantasies were made by an artist named Donald R Golder. I do not know whether the former king was alive when these were made, but I suspect not. In any case, I have never heard that Golder's pieces received Edward's approval.

 
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: WillieBoyd2 on September 05, 2020, 11:07:38 PM
This British newspaper front page has a small article on coins of Edward VIII:

(http://www.brianrxm.com/posts/post_edward8_newspaper_page.jpg)
Daily Herald newspaper, December 11, 1936

(http://www.brianrxm.com/posts/post_edward8_newspaper_nocoins.jpg)
No coins of King Edward

NO COINS OF KING EDWARD
RUSH TO BUY STAMPS

No King Edward VIII coins will ever be in circulation.

No coins could have been made before a royal proclamation announcing the date on which the coinage would come into circulation.

Such a proclamation was expected this month. It would have described the design for the King's head and the designs of the reverse sides for the different denominations.

The existing King Edward stamps will be issued until the stocks are exhausted.

Within a quarter of an hour of the abdication announcement, post offices at [S...] were raided yesterday by philatelists. They purchased all King Edward stamps of the higher denominations.

:)
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: Mister T on September 09, 2020, 12:50:38 PM
I'm guessing Edward VIII stamps are not terribly uncommon then?
Title: Re: King Edward VIII: His Place in Numismatics
Post by: <k> on September 09, 2020, 02:45:32 PM
The stamps are cheap and plentiful.