World of Coins

Design and designing => Coin design => Members' designs => Topic started by: annovi.frizio on January 25, 2008, 11:58:53 PM

Title: SMOM
Post by: annovi.frizio on January 25, 2008, 11:58:53 PM
SMOM in rome, use a stamps in euro, why not coins ?

this is my fantasy draw:

(http://www.webalice.it/annovi.frizio/coinsfantasy/SMOM_2.png)

or here:

http://www.webalice.it/annovi.frizio/p_eurofantasy14.html

ciao.. :-)    ::)

Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: Geert on January 26, 2008, 12:59:43 AM
SMOM in rome, use a stamps in euro, why not coins ?

this is my fantasy draw:


The Sovereign Military Order Of Malta (SMOM)

I think (this is my opinion) that you can use 1 cross of Malta on this coin

maybe between the legs of the animal

or between the S and X

 ;)
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: Figleaf on January 26, 2008, 01:03:07 AM
I agree. The agnus dei is a common symbol on coins, but the Maltese cross is specific for Malta. I am sure our Belgian members can tell you all about the agnus dei on gold coins from Brabant...

Peter
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: annovi.frizio on January 26, 2008, 02:13:09 PM
I have copied this old coin:

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6066/smomrc2.jpg

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6066/smomrc2.jpg)

 8)
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: Figleaf on January 26, 2008, 03:22:36 PM
That doesn't look like an old coin to me, Frizio. I attached a drawing of a magnificent gold coin of John of Arkel, bishop of Li?ge/Luik (1364-1378), a big golden lamb (groot gouden lam) - Vanhoudt G 944. Similar coins were minted in France, England, Flanders, Brabant and many other fiefs.

obv: agnus dei in decorated pearl circle, standing on IOHannis DDX (John ???). Legend: +AGNvs.DEI.BVLLONiaE.GRAtia.EPVSCOPVS.LEODIEN - the lamb of god of the grace of Bouillon bishop of Luik/Li?ge, where . stands for an annulet.
rev: decorated cross, rose in centre, heraldic lily in the corners in triple ring of four lobes on sqaure, 8 heraldic lilies on the side, the whole in a circle. Legend: +XPC:VINCIT:XPC:REGNAT:XPC:IMPERAT - christ wins christ reigns christ orders

Peter
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: bart on January 26, 2008, 03:29:12 PM
I really like your design, especially the way you've put the Maltese crosses between the European stars.

Quote from: Figleaf
I am sure our Belgian members can tell you all about the agnus dei on gold coins from Brabant...


Indeed, the golden lamb was copied in Brabant from the French coins of Jean le Bon.
Especially during the reign of the dukes Johanna and Wenceslas they were popular. They were named "mouton d'or" (golden lamb) because of the agnus dei depicted on these coins.
I found a picture on this website (http://www.cgb.fr/monnaies/vso/v22/gb/monnaiesgb02a8-2.html) of a mouton d'or which was struck in my hometown Vilvoorde (just north of Brussels).

Bart



Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: chrisild on January 26, 2008, 06:16:07 PM
SMOM in rome, use a stamps in euro, why not coins ?
Because they can't, that's why. ;)

The SMOM never had a monetary agreement with any EU member state, so it would be difficult to come to one with the EU. Besides ... do we collectors really need yet another mini-country and non-member that issues such euro "circulation" coins?

Apart from that - nice design. But from my POV the older pieces are more intriguing ...

Christian
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: annovi.frizio on January 26, 2008, 06:21:56 PM
my is only a provocation or curiosity idea...  ;)
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: translateltd on January 26, 2008, 08:33:29 PM

obv: agnus dei in decorated pearl circle, standing on IOHannis DDX (John ???).

Peter

If you read it as DUX rather than DDX (see the "flick" at the top right of the second letter; it's actually open - just - at the top), it makes rather more sense :-)

Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: Figleaf on January 26, 2008, 08:43:39 PM
It would, except that at the time, the U didn't exist. People used the V instead. See e.g. the word BVLLONI on the same coin. This coin is an imitation of the coin type of the Dukes of Brabant that Bart has posted. John of Arkel (a family of doubtful morals to begin with) undoubtedly wanted people, especially the half-illiterates, to read John duke, but ... he wasn't a duke and claiming the title would have landed him in more trouble than he could have handled, even as bishop of Li?ge.

You may argue that it is a spelling error, like EPISCVPVS, rather than EPISCOPVS, but I think it was done with a purpose.

Peter
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: annovi.frizio on January 26, 2008, 09:49:45 PM
yes I know, my is only a idea !!!  ;)
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: Figleaf on January 26, 2008, 09:56:20 PM
Agreed. As the title of the thread says, "why not". This board is about having fun with good design, not about real coins.

Peter
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: translateltd on January 27, 2008, 06:17:18 AM
It would, except that at the time, the U didn't exist. People used the V instead. See e.g. the word BVLLONI on the same coin.

Peter

U and V were variant forms of the same letter, often used interchangeably and with no consistency even in the same document - I would find it hard to see why coins should be any different to manuscripts or printed documents in that sense!

Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: Figleaf on January 27, 2008, 09:06:57 AM
Show me a coin where both are used as U.

Peter
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: translateltd on January 27, 2008, 11:07:48 AM
Show me a coin where both are used as U.

Peter

Read my last message again, more carefully :-)

Anyway, in my understanding, the image you posted qualifies ...
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: translateltd on January 27, 2008, 11:51:56 AM
Read my last message again, more carefully :-)

Anyway, in my understanding, the image you posted qualifies ...

OK, since it's you, I've had a quick look at images of some early British coins in the latest Spink, and the picture of S.1952 on p. 187 (2008 ed.) shows an Edward IV ryal (Flemish imitative coinage) with the reverse legend ihs aVtem transiens per mediUm illorVm ibat.  It's all in caps, but I've used lower case to highlight the difference.  The U in MEDIUM is very rounded, unlike the pointed Vs used elsewhere in the legend.

And here's a nice pic of a gigliato of RaimVndUs Berenger which has both forms in a single word:

http://www.ancient-art.com/images/mc170.jpg (http://web.archive.org/web/20130502022528/http://www.ancient-art.com/images/mc170.jpg)

Case rested - I'm off to bed, since it's now nearly midnight.

Martin
NZ


Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: chrisild on January 27, 2008, 02:33:30 PM
Show me a coin where both are used as U.
I know you were not referring to modern pieces there, but I just cannot resist. ;D

http://www.ncscoin.com/news/enews/2008/January/images/article1_image3_lg.jpg

Christian
Title: Re: SMOM
Post by: Figleaf on January 27, 2008, 07:54:40 PM
Thanks, Christian, good one :D

May thanks to translateltd. I am going to look this one up. Had never seen one before. I still don't think it's a U, though. After a long stare, I think maybe it's a Gothic L. They like to make them with the lower end right pointing upward. Not that it matters much...

Peter