World of Coins

Research and reference => Numismatics => Topic started by: Ukrainii Pyat on June 10, 2011, 05:13:08 PM

Title: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: Ukrainii Pyat on June 10, 2011, 05:13:08 PM
Outside of the 20p being introduced in the UK and filling a big void betwixt the 10p and the 50p, I cannot think of a newly introduced denomination that succeeded as planned.  Gees, in the USA they have been trying to introduce dollar coins for 40 years now without any modicum of success.
Title: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: Figleaf on June 10, 2011, 09:10:57 PM
Well, there was the 2-1/2 gulden replacing the 3 gulden and the 2-1/2 cent filling the gap between the 1 and 5 cent. That's some time ago, though.

Peter
Title: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: andyg on June 11, 2011, 01:07:04 AM
Israel and Thailand have introduced coins with a '2' denomination recently, in between 1 and 5's of existing series.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: chrisild on June 11, 2011, 10:38:00 AM
I just split the topic; this is (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,9659.0.html) where we are coming from so to say. In Germany there had been (vague) plans in the early 1990s to introduce a 20 Pfennig coin. For two reasons: One, the GDR had such a piece, so at least part of the country was already used to the concept. Two, the Deutsche Mark had the 1-2-5 setup elsewhere, so why not here as well?

Ultimately the idea "died", and shortly afterwards the euro was introduced anyway (with a 20 cent coin). However, we did get a 200 DM note in 1990 that was supposed to fill the gap between the 100 and 500 notes. Was not exactly successful ...

Christian
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: FosseWay on July 06, 2011, 11:56:28 PM
The UK introduced the £2 coin not that long ago. In terms of public acceptance it's been successful, although there seem to be supply issues. For example, most of the time when I need >£2<£5 change from the automatic checkout machines in the supermarket, I get a fistful of £1s. Historically, the UK introduction of the 2 shilling piece was successful in the sense that the public liked and used the coin, even though the decimalisation project it was supposed to herald never got off the ground in its original form.

Sweden will be reintroducing the 2 kronor coin next year, albeit in a much changed format from its previous incarnation. It will be interesting to see its progress, but it will be in the context of revising most of the range of coins rather than adding to an established series.

I never really understood the German dislike of the 20 pfennig denomination. It existed fitfully as a silver coin during the Kaiserreich, but then not at all after WW1 (except, as mentioned, in the DDR). I remember ending up with trouser-dropping quantities of 10pf coins because of its lack.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: andyg on July 07, 2011, 12:09:25 AM
For example, most of the time when I need >£2<£5 change from the automatic checkout machines in the supermarket, I get a fistful of £1s. Historically, the UK introduction of the 2 shilling piece was successful in the sense that the public liked and used the coin, even though the decimalisation project it was supposed to herald never got off the ground in its original form.

The automatic checkout machines in Asda or M&S never give out 2p or £2 coins...
Have never used enough of the other machines to see if they are all the same.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: Enlil on July 18, 2011, 12:26:05 AM
A 25 South Sudanese pound replaces the 20 Sudanese pound banknote. A 20 and 200 Carribean guilder replaces the 25 and 250 Nederlands Antilles Guilder respecively.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: villa66 on July 19, 2011, 08:30:32 AM
....I never really understood the German dislike of the 20 pfennig denomination. It existed fitfully as a silver coin during the Kaiserreich, but then not at all after WW1....

Definitely a puzzle for me too, especially since--as I understand it--20 pfennig was the long-time price of a streetcar ride (which, also, as I understand it, was a prime reason for the introduction of the East German 20-pfennig coin).

 :) v.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: malj1 on July 19, 2011, 09:07:24 AM
Australia introduce the Fifty cents in 1966 filling the gap between 20cents [2/-] and one dollar [10/-] but it was hastily withdrawn when they realised it was composed of too much silver [80%] and after a few years of seeking a solution, reintroduced the denomination in 1969 in cupronickel, but this time dodecagonal instead of round, and this has been a great success. It has constantly been used as a commemorative too.

Yes we did have the Crown [5/-] in 1937 but this was mainly to celebrate the coronation of George VI - the repeat in 1938 was a total flop and most were remelted.

Later a Two Dollar coin was introduced [1988] this too has been very successful. The reverse has an Aboriginal Elder and a Blackboy Plant.

[Blackboys = Xanthorrhoea is an Australian native plant genus. Commonly called grass trees]
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: FosseWay on July 19, 2011, 09:21:55 AM
Definitely a puzzle for me too, especially since--as I understand it--20 pfennig was the long-time price of a streetcar ride (which, also, as I understand it, was a prime reason for the introduction of the East German 20-pfennig coin).

I'd heard that the East German 20 pfennig was made in brass (the only circulating coin not in aluminium) because it was the standard charge for a phone call from a public phone box. The denser metal made the coin more likely to work in the phone box mechanism.

If the tram tickets were also bought using some kind of machine, it makes sense that they used the same machine-friendly denomination.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: villa66 on July 19, 2011, 09:38:59 AM
I'd heard that the East German 20 pfennig was made in brass (the only circulating coin not in aluminium) because it was the standard charge for a phone call from a public phone box. The denser metal made the coin more likely to work in the phone box mechanism.

If the tram tickets were also bought using some kind of machine, it makes sense that they used the same machine-friendly denomination.

Ah...weight for utility in coin slots...a nice insight. Thanks! And I'll add the pay-phone use to my picture of these coins. As for the tram use, I got that from a c.1985 book about a visitor's moment of confusion on a East German streetcar, and how it led to his learning that the state's ability to keep the fare at the longtime 20pf was a point of pride for the DDR authorities.

 :) v.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: villa66 on July 19, 2011, 09:44:50 AM
...we did have the Crown [5/-] in 1937 but this was mainly to celebrate the coronation of George VI - the repeat in 1938 was a total flop and most were remelted....

If you have a spare moment or two, would you please let me know the current thinking as to why the '38 crown was issued? And are there good estimates of how many were actually recycled?

Not to worry if digging up this info is inconvenient. Just curious.

 ;) v.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: FosseWay on July 19, 2011, 11:49:28 AM
The automatic checkout machines in Asda or M&S never give out 2p or £2 coins...
Have never used enough of the other machines to see if they are all the same.

I sometimes get £2 out of the ones at Sainsbury's, but it never gives 50p coins (bit of a bummer that, since the 50p series is the part of my collection of currently circulating coinage that I have most holes in!). Yesterday I needed £5.50 in change and it gave me 5 x £1 (one fake  ::)), 2 x 20p (no dateless ones) and 5 x 2p (one Irish  ::)). I figure if the machine let a fake £1 in once, it'll do so again, so I'll hopefully be able to get rid of it. The Irish 2p can go in the Oxfam kiloware donation pot.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: Ukrainii Pyat on July 19, 2011, 12:54:10 PM
The East Germans must have had pretty crude mechanisms in their trams if they had to make a heavier coin to be used in them.  In Kyiv the metro uses plastic tokens.  In Toronto Canada the train system uses little tokens that are aluminium and very easy to lose - which stinks because they are sort of costly for such a small thing.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: malj1 on July 19, 2011, 02:07:33 PM
Quote
would you please let me know the current thinking as to why the '38 crown was issued?

I don't really know the answer to that.

Originally it was intended to comemorate the coronation of Edward VIII but he abdicated two days after the bill passed through parliament so it was issued for George VI instead, with over one million produced.
But why they carried on the next year is strange, belatedly the Melbourne Mint, realising the unpopularity of the type as a circulation coin, halted production of the 1938 Crown mintage at just 101,600. Various estimates have put the figure at around 100,000 melted down for their bullion value; they are sterling silver 925 fine.
[I'll try to follow up this]
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: FosseWay on July 19, 2011, 02:14:35 PM
In Kyiv the metro uses plastic tokens.

I have an example of the Kyiv metro token, and also one from Minsk. The latter is also plastic (though pink to Kyiv's green) but has a metal thread running through it that is exposed at two points on the rim. I presume this is to give a magnetic signature to the token to stop other plastic discs being used (though in a country where people religiously wait at WAIT signals even when there's no traffic for 500 metres in any direction, I find it hard to believe that anyone would be so subversive as to try to defraud the Metro!), but it might also serve to make the piece a bit heavier. I can't remember whether the Kyiv one also has metal bits.

On the practicality of getting light coins to register in machines -- the problems are alive and well in the UK. On numerous occasions I have had 5p coins stop somewhere in the bowels of a parking ticket machine because it's lost its momentum as it passes through the recognition device. Usually some percussive maintenance gets it going again. The problem is a mixture of weight and size. Large non-dense coins (such as East German 50pf upwards) aren't a problem because they're big enough to give them a good shove into the slot. Coins the size of UK 5ps, even when they're made of a denser alloy like copper-nickel, just aren't big enough to do this with; you rely on gravity to carry the coin down into the mechanism, and it doesn't take much resistance within the machine to stop the coin somewhere it shouldn't be. The DDR 10pf are on the small size to be reliably 'shoved', so perhaps to be safe they made the 20pf out of something denser. I can also quite imagine that East German engineering and technology wasn't necessarily up to scratch compared to modern equivalent machines.
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: chrisild on July 19, 2011, 05:30:03 PM
The GDR 20 pfennig coin was indeed brass, and not aluminum, because of the public payphones. No idea what they used for public transport; the one time I was in East Berlin and needed a subway ticket, they had fairly simple looking boxes for that. Guess we could have cheated ...

And no, the Federal Republic of Germany never had 20 pfennig coins. That "0.20" was a new thing which came with the euro. :)

Christian
Title: Re: Newly introduced denominations
Post by: villa66 on July 19, 2011, 08:10:17 PM
...Originally it was intended to comemorate the coronation of Edward VIII but he abdicated two days after the bill passed through parliament so it was issued for George VI instead....
I thank you for this. I have never seen it.

 ;) v.