World of Coins

They should have posted their coin on this forum. I could have told them WRL stands for Westair Reproductions Limited (http://www.westair-reproductions.com/mailorder/westair/westair.htm). While their products may have a certain educational value and are certainly fun toys, they shouldn't fool anyone who knows what real silver and gold coins look like.

Source: News Post Leader (http://www.newspostleader.co.uk/latest-news/Old-coin-is-fake-.3414345.jp)

Old coin is fake - expert

Published Date: 27 October 2007
Location: Blyth / Wansbeck

By ELEANOR GREGSON

WHAT was believed to be an ancient coin found in South East Northumberland has been revealed as a fake.
The coin, which was said to be around 500 years old and was expected to fetch thousands of pounds at auction, has turned out to be a replica.

The News Post Leader reported recently how a treasure-hunter had found the gold coin in Choppington and was planning to sell it.

News of the discovery excited historians and archaeologists in the region who were keen to see the coin first-hand.

But an examination by professionals revealed the coin was not heavy enough to be minted from gold, but instead was covered with a gold resin to give the appearance of the precious metal.

Rob Collins, finds liaison officer at Newcastle University's Museum of Antiquities, inspected the coin when it was finally brought to him for examination.

He said: "It was clear when I looked at the coin that it was a replica. Even though it was made of metal, it was not heavy enough to be gold.

"There was a plastic gold resin to give it that gold look. Also on the coin was a small WRL marking which is a very common mark for a replica."

Mr Collins added that he was not disappointed the coin was a fake as he had been sceptical about its authenticity from the outset.

"Gold coins are fairly rare finds so I was pretty sceptical that it would be the genuine article," he said.

Treasure-hunters have also been causing chaos on farming land in the area after news of the find spread.

Mr Collins is urging members of the public keen on looking for ancient artifacts to make sure they are doing so within the law.

He said: "If people are looking for artifacts and antiques then they should always make sure they have the permission of the land-owner whether they have a metal-detector or not."

He added: "And it is illegal to look for such items on ancient monuments so people should always check before doing so."

I have some Westair Reproductions

We do have a another thread on the Westair Reproductions somewhere but I have been unable to find it. I remember too adding a scan, from SNC July '83, regarding the Bigbury mint and providing details of the commonly seen viking coin replica.

Here are images of two more types of replica coins; neither mention BP.

The first is from a Spanish set.

Here are two more  8)
Our French friends have been discussing these, it doesn't look like they got very far.  Once I decipher the final post I'll let you know.....
http://www.numismatique.com/forum/faux/piece-188-217-caracalla-t51298-10.html
I couldn't find the Westair Reproductions thread either  :'(

These two touch on Westair. Try looking fro WRL.

http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,882.msg3817.html#msg3817

http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,18430.msg125197.html#msg125197

I read those but like you say not much substance on WRL.
I visited their website http://www.westair-reproductions.com/

Quote from: redwine on September 10, 2013, 06:21:13 AM
I have some Westair Reproductions

I found one of them as a keyring here http://www.westair-reproductions.com/Roman/Roman+Coin+Key-Ring.html  8)

I have only the one, nicely stamped WRL in front of bust.

Quote from: redwine on September 10, 2013, 07:37:38 AM
Here are two more  8)
Our French friends have been discussing these, it doesn't look like they got very far.  Once I decipher the final post I'll let you know.....
http://www.numismatique.com/forum/faux/piece-188-217-caracalla-t51298-10.html
I couldn't find the Westair Reproductions thread either  :'(

A big THUMBS UP to Westair  8) , they answered my email! - these were commissioned by Westair and made in Italy for mainly the UK market, around 30 years ago.

My Constantino piece in Reply #10 is most certainly from the same set as these having the same style of reverse.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23280.0;attach=38227;image)  (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23280.0;attach=38228;image)

All of this series are obvious reproductions but later they added the initials WRL which became necessary as their products improved and became mistaken for the real thing.

Indeed, the clue to the mystery was in the Caracalla piece - with the W beneath the bust ;D

Another WRL located in my junk box:

IMP CAES DOMIT AUGG ... Rev, FID EXERGECII from a later series that were clearly stamped WRL both sides, bronze 35.1mm

WRL should really have their own museum of reproductions.
Educational and a great marketing tool! 8)

Here are two more of the, nicely stamped WRL, reproductions:

Antoninus Pius 138-161AD and a dupondius of Hadrian 117-118AD

These two measure approx. 28mm

And three more of the, nicely stamped WRL, reproductions:

A Denarius of Julius Caesar with elephant walking right and another Denarius, this time, of Vespasian 69-79 AD

Finishing up with a Gold reproduction of Claudius 41-54AD

These three are around 17-18mm.

Nice one Malcolm.  8)

Quote from: malj1 on September 10, 2013, 07:08:39 AM

Here are images of two more types of replica coins; neither mention BP.

The first is from a Spanish set.

Re #10 the Spanish set came with Ortiz biscuits according to another forum ;D

So the complete title is written on the back of my first piece.

In fact it even says: Coleccion "Ortiz" I just cannot read Spanish.

Me neither  ;D
But I shall see how many pieces of the set I can find..........  8)

There are 10 pieces in the Ortiz Colleccion, Las Monedas De Los Borbones  Serie 1.  Looks like they came with 'Chokilates' by Ortiz.
I have confirmed the identity of all of them  8)

FELIPE V / 1733 / 1 REAL
FERNANDO VI / 1751 / 1 REAL     
FERNANDO VI / 1755 / 8 REALES   
CARLOS III / 1768 / 2 REALES   
CARLOS III / 1779 / 4 MARAVEDIS
CARLOS III / 1781 / 1 REAL     
CARLOS III / 1788 / 2 REALES   
CARLOS IIII / 1806 / 4 REALES 
CARLOS IIII / 1808 / 8 MARAVEDIS 
CARLOS IIII / 1808 / 2 REALES

Piccy of display card here http://www.todocoleccion.net/carpeta-coleccion-monedas-borbones-incompleta~x31508355

A couple more WRs

Another WRL  8)
I think meant to be a Titus Sestertius  IMP T CAES VESP AVG P M TR P P P COS VIII, laureate head left

A nice piece that even looks antique. I like the fact they always bear the WRL counter-mark.


We should have separated the WRL pieces many moons ago its a little difficult now.

I was meaning sorting this thread as there are so many references and images of WRL coins interspersed throughout here with the VERCINGETORIX items - originally the "Collection BP".

A thorough mess!  ::)

edit   ...but now sorted!

Nicely done Malcolm  8)

Another that we don't have yet is this Claudius piece:

TI CLAVDIS CAESAR AUG PMTRPIMPPP rev. CLAVDIO 10 aC. 54 d.C. IMPERATOR copper 28mm.

From an eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1562-Elizabeth-sixpence-hammered-coin-WRL-COPY-REPLICA-/201082387962?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ed171bdfa) listing we have:

1562 Elizabeth I sixpence hammered coin (WRL COPY/REPLICA)

It is clearly marked COPY WRL yet the asking price is £350.00 Buy it now + £50.00 postage ???  :o

Seller repeats at the bottom,
1562 Elizabeth I sixpence hammered silver coin - replica
Please note this coin has "COPY WRL" stamped on the reverse.
Postage is free to the UK.

Here's a batch I got for Xmas  ;D
Merry Xmas everyone! 8)

Deleted image that merely said seasons greetings!

...but you've been conned - they are all replicas!  >:D

Quote from: malj1 on December 25, 2014, 09:30:52 PM

...but you've been conned - they are all replicas!  >:D

Do you think  :o  :P  >:D

I have a few oddities floating around.



By the way Mr. Wine, the two shiny faux Egyptians are yours should you want them.

Very kind Mr. Bagerap  ;D
Do you have a piccy of the reverses of those as I feel a list coming on.....................  ::)

Will this suffice Sir?

Ooooh!  Many thanks Sir Bagerap  ;D

And here is a "very rare coin" from eBay India:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/INDO-GREEK-Very-Rare-COIN-exact-Weight-10-04-copper-metal-/281538664759?pt=IN_Coins_Notes&hash=item418d031937

It is!!
WRL stamped on both sides.  Bargain! >:D

Here's a starter list - can't read the fine detail too well  :-[
Will check in due course............

WRL The .IMPERATORE. series

AVGVSTO 63a.C.14dC.
CARACALLA 188-217dC.
CLAVDIO 10aC. 54 d.C
COSTANTINO 280-337 d.C.
GALLIENO 218-268 d.C.
LICINIO PADRE 250-325dC.
TIBERIO 42a.C. 37d.C.
TRAIANO 53-117 d.C.

Saved an image of the "very rare coin" from eBay India:  ;D

VERY RARE Indo Greek coin, please! This is black-hole ignorance taken to a whole new level. No wonder the emperor is rolling his eyes. ::) How will this seller call a Portuguese eurocent? A British Indian real red gold mohur? You might have mentioned also that he is a top-rated seller with 100% positive feedback. :D :D :D

Peter

Quote from: Figleaf on December 29, 2014, 01:39:46 PM
This is black-hole ignorance taken to a whole new level.

Peter

Just came across this "feedback" on steel-tipped carbon arrows at Amazon. Couldn't help sharing.  :-X
(http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy340/MajesticOverlord/imagejpg1_zps023ef18b.jpg) (http://s805.photobucket.com/user/MajesticOverlord/media/imagejpg1_zps023ef18b.jpg.html)

I trust it was you who found the review helpful. Having not much to laugh about, I found it helpful also.

Peter

2.18g
18.72mm
A nice gold colour not replicated in my scan 8)

This very fine medal went for $90 in an Australian auction held by Downies,  Auction 315, Lot 2872.  Boulton's Trafalgar Medal 1805 47mm in white metal (BHM 584, Eimer 960) Fine/VF  estimated at $100.

Shame about the WRL below the bust, someone must have been wearing the wrong glasses 8)

(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn21/constanius/WRL.jpg)

Pat

I guess the glasses were pink :o That's almost beyond belief. The Westair stuff is easy to spot even without the initials. A bit too crude, way too light, wrong colour. I can imagine how it could fool a newbie, but an auction house? ::)

Peter

One offered for sale on eBay  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BATTLE-OF-TRAFALGAR-MEDALLION-FROM-M-BOULTON-/221720529296?hash=item339f92c990  (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BATTLE-OF-TRAFALGAR-MEDALLION-FROM-M-BOULTON-/221720529296?hash=item339f92c990) I put it in my watch list!

Pat

I think a case can be made that not showing the other side with the WRL initials amounts to fraud. At least, this is a small-time fraudster of the regular eBay kind with a 100% approval rate, not an auction house.

Peter

He shows both sides lower down, but blatantly even mentions the WRL stamp in the description.

Alan

I had a look at her other items for sale, mainly women's clothes and some odds & ends, so I think she is just unaware of the significance of the WRL stamp.  I do not think she is trying to deceive anyone.

Caveat emptor.

Pat 

Quote from: constanius on March 20, 2015, 07:45:07 PM
I had a look at her other items for sale, mainly women's clothes and some odds & ends, so I think she is just unaware of the significance of the WRL stamp.  I do not think she is trying to deceive anyone.

Caveat emptor.

Pat

Yes, I agree.  ::)

It sold for.............£39.00......... :o

Pat

With 15 bids showing two experienced bidders who should have known better. The winner has a score of only 317 wins, I hope he can learn the significance of the WRL stamp.

Here is a Henry VIII half groat, here he looks to be a kindly old gent.  ::)

Comes with the original ticket from Westair Reproductions Ltd. which is nice to see and reads:

Quote from: redwine on December 29, 2014, 08:13:25 AM
Here's a starter list - can't read the fine detail too well  :-[
Will check in due course............

WRL The .IMPERATORE. series

AVGVSTO 63a.C.14dC.
CARACALLA 188-217dC.
CLAVDIO 10aC. 54 d.C
COSTANTINO 280-337 d.C.
GALLIENO 218-268 d.C.
LICINIO PADRE 250-325dC.
TIBERIO 42a.C. 37d.C.
TRAIANO 53-117 d.C.

Nero must have away fiddling when this list was composed.

WRL The .IMPERATORE. series

AVGVSTO 63a.C.14dC.
CARACALLA 188-217dC.
CLAVDIO 10aC. 54 d.C
COSTANTINO 280-337 d.C.
GALLIENO 218-268 d.C.
LICINIO PADRE 250-325dC.
NERONE 37-68 d.C.
TIBERIO 42a.C. 37d.C.
TRAIANO 53-117 d.C.

;D

Two WRL replicas, Elizabethan shilling sixpence 1562 marked both COPY and WRL and an earlier Henricus penny marked WRL on the reverse.

Both much greyer than the usual copies so much less convincing.

Richard III gold Angel by WR

...I had to give up my horse for this one!

Love that parking sign!  ;D

Quote from: malj1 on January 25, 2016, 04:09:13 AM
Richard III gold Angel by WR

...I had to give up my horse for this one!

At least some of that series exists in duplicate, with the other of the pair showing the other side. I have the Richard III piece you show and another showing the angel on the other side, and a similar pair for James I's Harrington farthing. Both carry the same reverse inscription in each case.

Those two are the only ones where I have both sides of the same original coin. I have eight or so further pieces in the same series, ranging from Sihtric king of York in the 9th century to Queen Anne, but only showing one side in each case. I don't know whether all of them were issued in pairs; mine have universally been accumulated through job lots.

Quote from: FosseWay on January 25, 2016, 08:20:07 PM
At least some of that series exists in duplicate, with the other of the pair showing the other side. I have the Richard III piece you show and another showing the angel on the other side, and a similar pair for James I's Harrington farthing. Both carry the same reverse inscription in each case.

That is very interesting I had not come across that before. A clever way to double their sales perhaps.  ::) I too only acquire these from job lots.

Would you care to post images of the those three?

Yep, will do as soon as I've messed with the image. I have an entire scanner bed of reproductions to cut up and paste together.

Here are the four pieces showing both sides of the Richard III angel and James I farthing.

I also have the following from the same series, but in each case only one side is shown. I don't know whether the other sides exist.

Thanks for showing these it will be interesting to see if the other sides show later somewhere.

All are very nicely made with certainly no intention to deceive with the plain, named, and marked WR reverse. Possibly those marked as " A Westair Reproduction" are the most recent type to make this even clearer.

Nice  8)
I think I have one of those somewhere  :-[
BTW I spotted this site that does repros, not sure if it's been posted before?
http://www.museumreproductions.co.uk/shop/category.php

They say:
"Aged by ourselves and stamped with a small letter "R" they also have a make-believe moneyers name "GRVNAL" to stop deception."

I think we do have some of with the "R" here somewhere, its too late at night here for me to start searching.

QuoteAt least some of that series exists in duplicate, with the other of the pair showing the other side.

Spotted a pair on eBay today with tickets. presumably Westair?

Those look stylistically similar to the Westair monarchs series I posted at the top of this page.

Another Roman pair marked WRL on both sides c.30mm

And two more.  Henry VII and a French one  ;D

That's interesting I've not seen any French ones before.

This opens up new possibilities?   :o

Quote from: malj1 on May 01, 2014, 06:46:35 AM
Another that we don't have yet is this Claudius piece:

TI CLAVDIS CAESAR AUG PMTRPIMPPP rev. CLAVDIO 10 aC. 54 d.C. IMPERATOR copper 28mm.

I have this one, dont know much about it as my dad left it to me when he passed along with others.

Picked up these beauties  ;D
The Vespasian coming in at 36.9mm  8)

The WRL is there if you look for it but not too conspicuous.  8)

Indeed, they're the best! 8)

Another WRL of Roman type, Severus 18mm in what seems to be an aluminium alloy. 1.6g.

imperatore caracalla seems to have been made with different pictures.

and many of the imperatore coins have been made from different metals.

In reply #8 we learned that thee Imperatore series was made in Italy. I find them less classy than other WRL stuff.

Peter

Yes the Italian W signature on these, but rather odd to have two different images.

The facing portrait is prolly a medallion, not a coin. Maybe Westair objected and the Italians used the same font or even a punch of the whole legend for its replacement. Note that the flans have the same shape. Only the portrait is different.

Peter

this is the third coin of caracalla, which was also mentioned in earlier posts.

of all the other emperors of this imperatore series, i only have 1 picture per emperor.

Imperatore (http://www.jezuss.nl/im/imperatore.htm)

Funny! That one looks like a production of Westair proper, an alternative to the crude Italian-made piece shown above.

Peter

elizabeth I
both sides of the 'original' coin.

That is interesting - it is (or rather they are) a further example of the series I illustrated a few pages back in this thread of English/British coins with obverse and reverse on separate flans. I've not seen the Elizabeth sixpence (either side of it) before.

i think robert bruce also is not mentioned yet.

here you can see al my WR marked westair tokens : Westair Reproductions - WR (http://www.jezuss.nl/we/westair-wr.htm)

another westair reproduction.
19 mm zinc.

but i can't read the inscription...

another westair reproduction which a can't read.
19mm zinc

8th or 9th century short cross penny. The type was widely used in Europe, but since it is Westair you'd expect it to be British. Not in Spink. Irish?

Peter

Quote from: jezuss on October 22, 2021, 07:36:16 PM
but i can't read the inscription...

Harold II, PAX type, Spink 1186 (with scepter in left field) or 1187 (without scepter).

obv: + HAROLD REX ANGLorum
rev: (moneyer and mint) PAX in central band

Peter

re Reply 85

Poitou, Richard the lionheart denier.

Alan

Brilliant, Manzikert! I missed the I in the first line completely.

Denier (1189-1199), Boudeau 420, Poey d'Avant 2536, Duplessy -

obv: short cross in circle + RICARDVS REX or variant
rev: PIC / TAVIE / NSIS (of Poitou)

Actually, Richard was count of Poitou. He was king of England. By heraldic rules, he should not have mixed his titles.

Peter

another WRL token which i cannot read.

25.5mm tin

pictures are obverse and reverse of one token.

Cleopatra and Mark Anthony tetradrachm, similar to http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/imp/cleopatra/RPC_4094.2.jpg

Alan

First picture: BACIΛICCA KΛEOΠATΡA ΘEA NEΩTEΡA - queen Cleopatra ...
Second picture: ANTΩNIOC AYTOKΡATΩΡ TΡITON TΡIΩN ANΔΡΩN - Antonius emperor of the third triumvirate

Peter

thank you alan and peter.

you can now see my WRL marked coins here : http://www.jezuss.nl/we/westair-wrl.htm