Author Topic: Northern Sung  (Read 5104 times)

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Offline Prosit

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Northern Sung
« on: December 17, 2010, 01:50:34 AM »
These are northern sung coins.  That is all I know about them.  Is there enough detail on any of them to identify more?

How difficult and expensive is it to get a really nice looking one?  Do they exist?
Dale




« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 11:07:28 PM by Quant.Geek »

translateltd

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Re: upper sung
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2010, 02:22:00 AM »
They're usually pretty ratty.  You should still be able to sit down with a catalogue of them and spend a happy period doing character-matching to pin them down, though.  The most helpful catalogue I ever had (and still use) is my 1987 edition of "The Catalog of Japanese Coins and Bank Notes".  It's almost all in Japanese, but it gives the "printed" version of the characters on cash coins and the dates of issue, which is a great starting point. Chinese cash are listed because most circulated in Japan at one stage and are widely collected there.


Offline Figleaf

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Re: upper sung
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010, 04:29:55 PM »
Lower row centre is emperor Huizong, era Hsuan Ho (Xuanhe) - 1119-1125. Remmelts 100. The coin is pictured upside down.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 05:06:34 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: upper sung
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 04:44:14 PM »
Top row, first right is Remmelts 64, emperor Shenzong, era Hsi ning (Xining) - 1068-1077. The characters are (vertical) Hsi ning (horizontal) chung pao. Top row, second from left is the same coin, pictured upside down.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 04:50:29 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Prosit

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Re: upper sung
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2010, 06:44:17 PM »
Thanks!  I have three others that may be in a bit better condition.  May scan them an post them later this weekend if I get the chance.
I bought 10 of these and hoped I would get one that is worth keeping as an example.  I may have to keep looking :-) These are fairly unattractive.

Dale

translateltd

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Re: upper sung
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 07:30:00 PM »
They're all worth keeping, at least until you get better examples of the individual emperors :-)


Offline Figleaf

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Re: upper sung
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2010, 09:37:43 PM »
I think (but am not sure) that lower row left is Remmelts 70: emperor Huizong, era yuang feng (Da'an) - 1078-1085. Grass script. Your coin should be non- or weak magnetic. Coin should be turned 90┬░ clockwise.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: upper sung
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2010, 09:55:08 PM »
I think (but am not sure) that upper row, second from right is Remmelts 84, emperor Chongzong, era Yuan fu (Yong'an) - 1098-1100, cursive script. Coin is pictured correctly.

I have given up on the last two. Sorry.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 10:00:27 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline weepio

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Re: Northern Sung
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2011, 02:11:00 PM »
Emperor Shen Zong 1068-1085

Era Xi Ning 1071 - 1078
2 Xi Ning Zhong Bao (Regular script)
4 same as 2
7 same as 2

Era Yuan Feng 1078 - 1085
1 Yuan Feng Tong Bao (Seal script) t,r,b,l
3 Yuan Feng Tong Bao (Running script) t,r,b,l
5 Same as 3


Emperor Hui Zong 1101-1125

Era Xuan He 1119-1125
6 Xuan He Tong Bao (Seal script) t,b,r,l

Offline scorpio

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Re: Northern Sung
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2011, 03:50:18 AM »
Coins of the Northern Sung dynasty are common and good quality ones can easily be obtained from reputable dealers  for less than $5.00 each.
To give you an example the website address shown has a selection of Imp. Chinese coins of all dynasties and their sales are guaranteed to be authentic. In any event, Northern Sung coins are numerous and the possibility of buying replicas are very slim.

http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/ecin/store/dynamicIndex.asp

Offline Arminius

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Re: Northern Sung
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2011, 11:34:55 AM »
I recently started uploading these to my China gallery.

http://www.arminius-numismatics.com/coppermine1414/cpg1414/thumbnails.php?album=186&lang=english

You should find most common types already there, sorted by year. Feel free to use it for identification.

(The transliteration and classification is based on the system of David Hartill┬┤s catalogue.)

 :)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 04:11:42 PM by Arminius »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Northern Sung
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2011, 09:54:13 PM »
I obtained these coins from Prosit and kept them in olive oil until yesterday. The coins obtained a better colour, more depth and excess oxydation was removed. New detail became available. Hat off to weepio, who got all the emperors and periods right. However, his numbers 2, 4 and 7 turned out different after all. They are Remmelts 64 (chung pao), 62 (yuan pao) and 66 (3 cash). Also, his numbers  and 5 turned out to be Remmelts 72 and 71, double cash.

This was well worth the months-long soak.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 11:57:44 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Prosit

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Re: Northern Sung
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2011, 11:30:12 PM »
Out of the group I had, I kept two, and sent the Rest to Figleaf.  Wanted someone to have them that appreciated them.

I don't know if I should tell you guys this...don't hate me!  I gave one to my Son for a good luck charm and he carries it on his keyring ;D

Here is the one I kept.

Dale

Offline weepio

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Re: Northern Sung
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2011, 04:48:19 PM »
Just based on the characters on a coin is not enough to determine the right coin, also the diameter (and weight are) is important. Could you post a picture of the cleaned coin R 62?

And to you Prosit, giving a coin to your son is not a bad thing to do, but keep in mind this coins often are brittle and can easily crack, especially on a key chain.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Northern Sung
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2011, 12:39:05 AM »
Here you are. I noted 6.6 grams and 31.0 mm. Colour is slightly changed to accentuate characters. The coin looks better in hand; more details are visible, but I can't get it better on the scan. I think it matches the drawing in Remmelts stroke for stroke.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.