Author Topic: How to recognize fakes French Ecu Louis XIV  (Read 5208 times)

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Offline rorey36

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How to recognize fakes French Ecu Louis XIV
« on: September 07, 2010, 10:28:10 PM »
How to recognize fakes French  Ecu Louis XIV
Regards.
Roberto
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 10:20:38 PM by coffeetime »

Offline Figleaf

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ow to recognize fakes French Ecu Louis XIV
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2010, 10:47:37 PM »
Badly made fakes, both. There should not be an X above the head, nor any text (apparently remnants of SIT NOMEN DOMINI BENEDICTVM legend) above the crowns on the double L's. I wish all fakes were so easy to spot.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: How to recognize fakes French Ecu Louis XIV
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2012, 11:01:59 PM »
Just a small remark : the fact that there are parts of a remnant legend on a silver Ecu of Louis XIV doesn't necessary indicate that it's a fake; under the reign of Louis XIV, according to a law, the silver Ecu were struck over older coins of the same size, but with a new type, that was called "réformation".
The old coins were said "récriées", that is to say "not for use in the market"; people have to bear their coins to the royal mint and have to pay a tax for this "réformation". New coins often show traces of the previous legends.
A coin may have been re-struck 2 (or even 3) times...
Successive types are well known and it isn't possible to have a former type overstruck on a later, if you see that, then, sure it's a fake..
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: How to recognize fakes French Ecu Louis XIV
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2012, 12:11:00 AM »
Quite right, saro, but there is more here. The X could only have come from the king's reign number (LOUIS XIIII), but the X is immediately followed by an I. The I is a narrow letter and there is place above the head for it. There is no reason why the X should appear quite clearly and the I not at all.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

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Re: How to recognize fakes French Ecu Louis XIV
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 12:25:00 AM »
There is definitely the trace of something vertical after the X, and I could be easily convinced it was the older legend LVD XI... still showing through.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: How to recognize fakes French Ecu Louis XIV
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 12:32:48 AM »
Tried to find an écu with the small letters SIT very close to the border, as visible on the other coin.  The letters all seem to be of similar size. Those on the écu aux trois couronnes (Dy 1568) seem close to the edge, but that is a later type than the écu aux huit L shown. Those on the écu de Flandres (Dy 1561) are close also and a later type. Dy 1560 is too rare to be a candidate and struck later also. All types have normal size letters. Or do you think the flan for an écu was stamped with the die of a demi-écu?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

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Re: How to recognize fakes French Ecu Louis XIV
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 01:02:58 AM »
Tried to find an écu with the small letters SIT very close to the border, as visible on the other coin.  The letters all seem to be of similar size. Those on the écu aux trois couronnes (Dy 1568) seem close to the edge, but that is a later type than the écu aux huit L shown. Those on the écu de Flandres (Dy 1561) are close also and a later type. Dy 1560 is too rare to be a candidate and struck later also. All types have normal size letters. Or do you think the flan for an écu was stamped with the die of a demi-écu?


Not sure I really follow this, but that's by the by.  All I was pointing out was that there does indeed seem to be "something after the X", contrary to your claim above.  I've got used to squinting at "phantom" detail since looking for the missing date on the proof NZ 10c a day or two ago.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: How to recognize fakes French Ecu Louis XIV
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 01:15:52 AM »
We're not on the same page, Martin. There's an upper coin with an X that does not seem to be followed by anything. There's a lower coin, also with an X, followed by something that could be a I (though it looks too fat to me) that has the word SIT (from sit nomen domini benedictus) in small letters at a place where it doesn't belong.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.