Author Topic: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN  (Read 6267 times)

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Offline andyg

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KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« on: July 18, 2010, 11:40:33 AM »
Just bought a better one of these, spotted something on the old coin that I'd never noticed before, It seems to be overstruck on a Korean 5 Fun? (The F and N are visible either side of '10' at the base)

Is this common on these?
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Online Figleaf

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 01:25:02 AM »
Well spotted. I have been looking around to see if there was a better explanation, but found none. The province borders on Shanghai. I would imagine that the coin travelled overseas from Korea to Shanghai, ending up in a different mint. Very interesting.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline gxseries

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 07:38:18 AM »
I have a few overstruck coins from different provinces. Zhejiang 10 cash overstruck on Korean 5 fun aren't that scarce - there are some provinces that are considerably rare. Most of the overstruck copper coins were struck in the Eastern part of China. When it comes to inner part or Western part of China, now that's a different story.

The only reason why this phenomenon occured is because of a critical shortage of copper in China. If I am not mistaken, the Korean 5 fun coins would have been demonetized - the last coin was struck in 1902. It would have been sold as scrap and by chance, it was about the same size as a Chinese 10 cash coin and thus were used as overstruck planchets.

Offline gxseries

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 03:21:46 PM »
Here are some examples:

Zhejiang 10 cash over 1902 5 fun


Hubei 10 cash over 1898 5 fun


Peiyang 10 cash over 1898 5 fun, slightly tougher to find


And an insane mule of Zhejiang / Hubei 10 cash over 1895 5 fun, coin orientation. All other Chinese 10 cash coins are struck in medal orientation



Online Figleaf

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 04:45:44 PM »
That's a lot more than 5 fun; that's great fun (OK, that's lame. I just couldn't resist :-*.) I'd never heard of these overstrikes. Indeed, your mule is pretty spectacular. Three coins in one!

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline gxseries

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2010, 07:51:55 PM »
Forgot to add in this picture.

Those who don't know what a Korean 5 fun coin looks like, here is one:




Offline andyg

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 12:44:45 AM »
Thanks gxseries, I guess these are quite common after all.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline nguyen anh tu

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 03:45:18 AM »
KUANG-SHU YUAN PAO (1875-1908) , CHEKIANG PROVINCE 10 CASH OVER KOREA KUANG - MU 5 FUN ( 1897-1907)

Online Figleaf

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 11:26:57 PM »
A very interesting overstrike. I wonder how the Korean coins made the trip to Chekiang. There is some more information here.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline nguyen anh tu

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 01:23:44 AM »
thanks FIGLEAF !!!!!

translateltd

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 08:43:21 AM »
Something I hadn't really thought about in connection with these Korean coins until now is that the "F" sound doesn't exist in Korean.  Any foreign words containing an F that are transcribed into Korean script use a strongly aspirated "p" instead.  So the Korean denomination reads (in the best representation I can manage) P'HUN (푼).  Kind of odd to see the transcription process essentially working the other way round in this case (P'H -> F rather than F -> P'H).

More "fun" with these coins!




Offline gxseries

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2013, 04:49:19 AM »
There's an interesting article regarding about Chinese coins overstruck over Korean 5 fun.

http://primaltrek.com/blog/2012/04/30/chinese-10-cash-coins-overstruck-on-korean-5-fun-coins

I think it's quite possible that this has occured.

Online Figleaf

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2013, 11:39:24 AM »
This sounds true. The question in my mind is on the dies used. The article isn't clear about it. If these overstrikes were made with original dies, quantum or not, they were coins. If they were struck with imitation dies, they are contemporary counterfeits. If the mints could strike coins, it cannot be explained that they could not overstrike coins, unless the overstrikes were made outside the mint, but the question still remains if the mint co-operated in the operation by providing official dies.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline gxseries

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2013, 01:16:31 PM »
I think the answer is quite simple Figleaf. If the mint was bribed to perform such activity, what would you classify that under?

Online Figleaf

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Re: KUANG-HSU 10 CASH OVER KOREA 5 FUN
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2013, 12:41:27 AM »
It's not simple in my mind. If the mint could strike good 10 cash pieces, why are the Korean 5 fun pieces weakly overstruck? I think the only possible answer is that they were overstruck outside the mint. Of course, that leaves open the possibility that mint officials were bribed to provide dies and that's exactly where the trouble is.
  • Polish coins were illegally re-struck in German mints with official dies. They are listed in catalogues.
  • East Germany re-struck its own coins. This was considered fraudulent.
  • The Paris mint struck coins with the Utrecht mint mark with dies Utrecht never had. They are considered OK.
  • Singapore merchants copied Dutch Indies coins with slight variations. They were banned by the Dutch but are listed in major catalogues.
  • The Warsaw and Moscow mints produced Dutch gold pieces. Some cataloguers list them, others don't.
Apparently, there is a lot of flexibility in cataloguer-land for illegally produced coins. Meanwhile, a restrike in the original mint can be considered fishy. I get iffy feelings when a coin is produced illegally and outside the mint that is supposed to make them, but in view of these examples (I could list more), it seems that cataloguers would treat them as they treat the official coins as long as the imitations are good enough.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.