What should mints worldwide be doing for collectors?

Started by UK Decimal +, April 16, 2010, 08:28:56 PM

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UK Decimal +

What should our mints be doing for collectors?

This topic has been started with the Royal Mint in mind, but perhaps we can get opinions of collectors from around the world.

First, I think that they must split their listings to show 'everyday coins' which enter circulation in one place.   These should be made available as 'Uncirculated' and 'Proof'.   I do not like 'Brilliant Uncirculated' as they do not look real to me.   The 'Uncirculated' should be sold at face value plus the cost of controlled handling.  I think that we all realise that 'Proof' coins cost more to produce.   In addition, a set of coins produced during normal circulation runs could be made available towards the end of each year.

I have nothing against commemorative issues, they do make life interesting.   But what is the point of only issuing them in limited quantities and non-circulation grades?   If it is a coin, it should be made in sufficient quantities to circulate.

Any coin (other than Proofs, etc.) costing more than face value I consider to be 'Bullion'.   As an example, there is a very nice gold coin issued by the Royal Mint in the 'Britannia' series which costs £155 but has a face value of only £10 - why not, allowing £5 as the production cost for the box, a face value of £150?

As a collector of coins, I am not interested in special packaging.   In any case, the packaging used (apart from the annual Proof sets) is of all different sizes which in itself causes me problems.   I would be quite happy to receive coins in either 2" x 2" clear plastic envelopes or the card version with a clear area covering the actual coin.   This would enable us to collect in quantity at a reasonable price.   I have, however, no objection to fancy descriptive packaging being used for promotional purposes at higher prices, as long as the coins are also made available to genuine collectors at minimum cost.

In short:-
'Proofs' in sets, also in both plain and promotional packaging.   Also, as single coins.
'Brilliant Uncirculated' - forget them.
'Uncirculated' in plain simple packaging and perhaps in promotional packaging.
'Circulation' in simple sets at the end of each year.

OK, what have I forgotten?

Bill.

EDIT: TITLE AMENDED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THIS QUESTION DOES NOT APPLY ONLY TO BRITAIN.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

People look for problems and complain.   Engineers find solutions but people still complain.

andyg

Quote from: UK Decimal + on April 16, 2010, 08:28:56 PM
The 'Uncirculated' should be sold at face value plus the cost of controlled handling.  I think that we all realise that 'Proof' coins cost more to produce. 

It should be possible to 'buy' coins at face value from your bank / post office - just like it used to be!

Figleaf

I think most mints are driven by profit motive, not collector's wishes. This is an improvement over the time mints were interested only in the requirements of the state.

The requirements of the state are relatively simple: a steady supply of reasonably well struck coins as they are needed. To minimize cost, mints need to weigh the cost of stocking coins against the cost of firing or hiring people. Having coins in stock is fine. Being short is really, really bad. Stocks are therefore habitually too large, meaning that mintage will show heavy fluctuations from one year to another.

Commercial requirements are more complicated: make the highest possible return. This consists of two elements: margin and sales volume. Mints must balance a huge margin with few sales (e.g. gold and silly silver pieces) with lower margin high turnover pieces. The richer gatherers (I can't call them collectors) are, the higher the margin can be. Moreover, gatherers' budgets should be milked to the maximum, meaning a steady supply of stuff at prices that are increased regularly. The irregular stuff should be as different as possible from real coins to discourage gatherer's from pulling stuff from circulation.

So how does my wish list differ from this? As for circulation coins, an opportunity to acquire rolls or bags of coins free of tax, margin (seigniorage is high enough to allow this), waiting in line and thumb prints. The Dutch mint offers rolls once a year free of tax and thumb prints at the cost of prolonged waiting in line. Post offices offer rolls free of tax, either with a handling fee or with free thumb prints and very limited waiting in line. Dutch banks try to avoid handling coins.

As for NCLT, an opportunity to acquire a few copies (I'd like them to have a worthy subject, but I have largely given up on this) at face, without waiting in line and thumb prints. The Dutch mint does not offer NCLT at face. Post offices do, but insist on thumb-printing them first. Banks refuse to handle them.

I don't care for any other stuff they make, but I do have a wish list. Avoid stupid words like "unique", "pure", "order now", "coveted", "at last", "whiter than white", "new"...  ::) Never mind. They won't.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Bimat

In other topic,Bill told me to express my views regarding this topic,so here they are :D

What should our mints do..my list is quite small.

  • Produce enough number of coins/coin sets(even if they are NCLTs) so that they do not immediately become rare and expensive(For example euro coins of Monaco
  • Keep the prices of coins/sets as low as possible so that even a common collector can afford them
  • False advertising should be avoided
And this is what Indian mints do(along with above 3 points)- Please maintain the quality of coins! Even though Indian rupee is weak compared to US $,£ or euro,please do not compensate with the quality of coins.Most of the African currencies are rather very weak,but their coins are beautifully struck.If they can manage to do that,why can't we?

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Austrokiwi

Partly "tongue in cheek"

Mints should do mostly nothing for collectors...................From what I have seen with my limited collecting experience every time a mint tries to produce something for collectors they usually get it wrong.   

UK Decimal +

This is the text of a letter which I received today from the Royal Mint.   I will add comments later and no doubt you will be adding yours also.


April 2010

A TOUR OF BRITAIN'S
MOMENTOUS HERITAGE

With the first of 18 iconic silver coins - half price!


Dear Customer

As someone who has bought an official product of London 2012 you'll already be well aware that the countdown to the ultimate sporting event on earth has begun with just two years to go until the opening of the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

As a discerning customer, you'll appreciate being informed of a truly majestic collection of coins celebrating all those things that make Britain great - A Celebration of British Silver Collection. It's your opportunity to look forward to the London 2012 Olympics and Paralympic Games, by capturing the mind, body and spirit of the nation, and pay homage to our heritage by ordering your first coin of the Silver Collection today.

Act now and receive the first coin half price

The first coin in the series features the magnificent 'Great Bell,' Big Ben and as a special introductory offer we are making it available to you for the special price of JUST £27.45 - THAT'S HALF PRICE.

Sterling silver Proof quality

Endorsed as an official product of London 2012, the Celebration of Britain Silver Collection has been created by a leading designer and the Royal Mint - a truly unique collaboration.

This is the first ever collection of sterling silver UK £5 legal tender coins struck to superior Proof quality. The Royal Mint has a limited number of sets available as demand has already been high so act now to avoid disappointment.

A FREE luxury presentation case worth £60

A series as magnificent as this needs a fitting display which is why you will receive a FREE luxury leather presentation case with your fourth coin. As your collection grows you will also receive a number of special complimentary gifts to enhance your collection so don't miss out, order today.

Yours sincerely

{signed: Dave Knight}

Dave Knight
Director of Commemorative Coin


Below is the illustration that is used.

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

People look for problems and complain.   Engineers find solutions but people still complain.

translateltd

Quote from: Austrokiwi on April 23, 2010, 08:53:37 PM
Partly "tongue in cheek"

Mints should do mostly nothing for collectors...................From what I have seen with my limited collecting experience every time a mint tries to produce something for collectors they usually get it wrong.   

I'm with you on that.  I'd rather forget the whole "product" thing altogether and go back to enjoying real coins.


andyg

Quote from: translateltd on April 23, 2010, 11:59:50 PM
I'm with you on that.  I'd rather forget the whole "product" thing altogether and go back to enjoying real coins.



yes, the plot has been lost - commemoratives used to be produced to commemorate an event, they were not produced to be sold to collectors.

chrisild

It is also interesting to see, from a euro area perspective, how quite a few mints try and "hide" the fact that there is a huge difference between the (€2) commemorative coins and the (regional) collector coins. These two terms in italics are official EU legalese, but mints certainly prefer the former. Partly because it is a well established term in the numismatic community, but quite obviously they also want to convey the impression that those regional coins are like real euro coins. Sure - after all, they want to sell them.

So with regard to euro coins, I wish those mints that currently do not make the difference obvious (in their marketing etc.) would start doing that. Theoretically it would have been nice to also have an extra denomination for "euro area wide" silver commems, preferably issued at face. With the same technical specifications (composition, diameter ...) for each piece but few design regulations. OK, that would involve more than the mints, and politically it will not happen, but you asked for opinions and dreams, right? :)

Christian

UK Decimal +

Sorry for not adding more earlier, but I've got family health problems to deal with.

There have been some wonderful answers already, ones that I particularly like being:-

Quote from: Austrokiwi on April 23, 2010, 08:53:37 PM
Partly "tongue in cheek"

Mints should do mostly nothing for collectors...................From what I have seen with my limited collecting experience every time a mint tries to produce something for collectors they usually get it wrong.  

Quote from: translateltd on April 23, 2010, 11:59:50 PM
I'm with you on that.  I'd rather forget the whole "product" thing altogether and go back to enjoying real coins.

Quote from: AJG on April 24, 2010, 01:10:33 AM
yes, the plot has been lost - commemoratives used to be produced to commemorate an event, they were not produced to be sold to collectors.

I agree.   I started off collecting coins from circulation and have only got proofs and BU to fill major gaps.   I've since decided that I don't like BU, but am happy to pay a reasonable amount above face value for proofs as they do cost more to produce.   But, off-metal-strikes are a no-no.  No way would I spend £55 for a proof silver modern coin with a face value of £5; it should have a face value of £50.

More later when I get a chance.

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

People look for problems and complain.   Engineers find solutions but people still complain.

UK Decimal +

I've just altered the topic title, and would like to make it clear that by 'our' in the original version, I meant for all of us.   As I started the topic, I naturally started with British coins but expected that you would respond with your country.

Please, if you have any comments about mints in your area, post a message here.

I am hoping that, eventually, we might be able to produce a list of things, from people around the world, to send them.

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

People look for problems and complain.   Engineers find solutions but people still complain.

idiotghost

The 2 most important things that I feel is:
1) Mints should make commemorative coins in larger nos. for circulation.
2) Coins should be directly be sold at face value or at a very low premium.

After all Mints are government entities, they should engage in too much profiteering. ;D