Author Topic: Variations, errors, mints and other differences  (Read 7411 times)

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Offline UK Decimal +

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Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« on: February 10, 2010, 09:40:53 PM »
Although I collect British coins, this can apply to all of us.   I like coins that have seen some use rather than than perfection.

Variations.   Many coins have variations (the UK 1992 small 10p has five); some have a wire ) edge, others a flat ] edge but other variations include minor differences in the dies.

Errors.   As an example, there are some older coins where BRIT... is spelt RRIT... , or the REG (Regina) shows only RE.   In some cases the year might have been chaged (1847 over 1846 on the British Groat (4d) is an example of this).

Mints.   The number of British coins struck by other than the Royal Mint is negligable and these exceptions are clearly marked 'H' or 'KN'.

Other differences.   You can probably find some!

I would be interested in hearing what other members think about collecting such coins.

Bill.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 12:09:59 PM by <k> »
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2010, 02:09:34 AM »
Most coins have so many variations that no one collects them and catalogues do not even describe them. In the field of Roman coins, it is pretty sensational to find two coins of the same type that are NOT variations. In the middle ages, dies wore rapidly and they were cut by hand. In the renaissance, the most common variations were in the legend: die cutters started cutting letters and would make up abbreviations as they fitted the required legend on the coin. Another oft recurring variation is the overstruck date, which is simply a way to use a perfectly good die in a following year. Different mints would produce coins that were almost by definition different. Only modern coins have fewer and smaller variations as new machinery was introduced that could duplicate mother dies.

Personally, I think most variations are pretty boring. They tend to produce endless album pages of coins looking the same. I prefer some typical production errors, such as brockage or double-strikes; they tell a story of how the coins were made and what could go wrong.

Peter
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Offline ciscoins

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 11:16:25 AM »
I would be interested in hearing what other members think about collecting such coins.

"Sectarians". That's how we call in Russia the collectors of errors and varieties.

For example the mintmark "M" at Russian kopeks can have different positions within one year. All the other details are the same.
(the images are from coins2001.narod.ru - the main website of Russian "sectarians"-collectors)
Ivan
Moscow, Russia

Offline a3v1

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2010, 11:18:09 AM »
Even the Euro-area has provided several interesting variations. Examples:
Finland 2 € 2006 with new map of Europe instead of old map.
Luxembourg 2 € CC 2005 and 2006. Re-issued (Proof only) in 2008 with French mintmarks (instead of Finnish mintmarks).
Monaco 1 € 2007 error without the Franch mintmarks.
Germany 2 € CC 2008 F and 20 cent 2008 F with old map of Europe instead of new map.
Spain 2 € CC 2009 with big stars in edge instead of small stars.

Problem is that way too many collectors all want these variations resulting in skyrocketing prices.
Regards,
a3v1
Over half a century of experience as a coin collector.
-------------
Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2010, 12:02:32 PM »
Minor errors I find pretty boring. In case I come across such a piece, I may keep it - but I would not buy one.

Some others are more interesting in my opinion. For example, on a few early euro pieces did not show the Stars of Europe as they are on the flag; the stars were radially oriented instead. Not a production error but a design mistake.

One fascinating collection of "errors" is the one that Burkhard Graichen has: Lots of (German) errors, patterns, etc. One time he showed them in an exhibition at the European Central Bank's HQ in Frankfurt ...

Christian
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 01:18:09 PM by chrisild »

Offline UK Decimal +

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2010, 12:54:50 PM »
Perhaps at this stage I should state my views.   As some of you are aware, I collect (almost) only UK coins and have examples of virtually all the decimal ones.   I am now concentrating on low denomination copper/bronze and silver pre-decimalisation ones from about 1800 onwards, with type examples of the higher denominations.   I also like 5/- (crown) coins but not the prices.   I chose my present avatar as an early example of decimalisation!

I have a few year-sets and individual coins in Proof and Brilliant Uncirculated, but only for 'interesting' years.   In the future I shall only go for Proofs as a perfect example of the art of coinmaking as they are not much more costly than BU.   BU coins do not look natural to me.   My real choice is for coins which are or were found in everyday use.

Within the above framework, if there is a definite design change during the year, I want both.

Error coins are another matter.   If they were produced in sufficient quantities, yes please!   But I do not hunt for something that was not really intended to be issued.

The few instances of British coins not produced by the Royal Mint are clearly marked in most cases and usually (relatively) easy to find.   Yes, I collect them.

The minor differences which only an experienced collector would notice, no, I'm not really interested (unless I happen to find one).   I would not deliberately collect the different die numbers on some of the earlier coins.

I will leave it at that for now, as I think that the postman has just delivered some more …

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2010, 01:37:47 PM »
... yes, it was the postman.

From the first envelope that I opened today, here is a good example.   I hope that you will be able to see the scans as the coin is fairly dark.

1875 farthing, from the Heaton mint (see the 'H' under the date on the reverse).

Now look carefully at the REG for Regina on the obverse.   It shows RF.G and I have never seen this listed anywhere.   Perhaps they were all like this, perhaps only some.

Now, please examine your 1875H farthings and tell us if any were issued with the correct REG.   It could prove interesting!

Bill.

Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 03:40:49 PM »
Any thoughts on the above 1875H farthing where the die for the obverse appears to have been altered from RFG to REG?

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 05:15:38 PM »
My interpretation would be a die break. Well observed!

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2010, 11:51:50 AM »
My interpretation would be a die break. Well observed!

Peter

Sorry Peter, I disagree.   A broken die would give a raised section on the coin, whereas there is a gap.

I have examined the coin using an engineering glass and there is a distinct gap of just over 0.2mm between the serif of the F and the other section which appears to have been added on to make it look like an E.   My thought is that the die was wrongly stamped F and then corrected using a punch to give the tail of the E.

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

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Offline RHM22

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2010, 02:59:23 PM »
If a portion of the 'E' was broken off pre-strike, it could result in a loss of detail, but I don't think that's the case here. My guess would be that it was filled with grease.

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 09:31:43 PM »
I now have two 1875 farthings from the Heaton Mint (I still need an example from the Royal Mint for that year).   Here they are side-by-side.   I still think that the one on the left comes from a die that had to be corrected.

(Sorry if the scans are a bit 'blotchy', I'll have to clean the glass).

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 09:40:38 PM »
I've looked again, and then with the aid of a powerful engineering magnifying glass.   If you look very carefully after the 'R' of Victoria, there seems to be a mark - perhaps dies 'E' and 'I' (although the latter is not very clear).

Any comments?

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

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andyg

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2010, 12:04:24 AM »
I now have two 1875 farthings from the Heaton Mint (I still need an example from the Royal Mint for that year).   Here they are side-by-side.   I still think that the one on the left comes from a die that had to be corrected.

(Sorry if the scans are a bit 'blotchy', I'll have to clean the glass).

Bill.

The plain 1875 farthings are worth watching out for, they seldom turn up, in my opinion they are under-rated in value.
Bill, something odd happened to the 'E', it looks like part of the base of the E became filled with grease perhaps.  I guess we'll never know exactly what went wrong.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 12:47:54 AM by AJG »

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Re: Variations, errors, mints and other differences
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2010, 12:46:01 AM »
This one on eBay looks to have the same error.

Bill.
Ilford, Essex, near London, England.

People look for problems and complain.   Engineers find solutions but people still complain.