Azores - GP Countermark

[andyg]

Hi all,

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it genuine-ness....

Andy

[Afrasi]

Does not look very original ... But I need a larger scan of the c/m, please, to be sure!

[andyg]

Thanks afrasi. here is a larger scan,

[Afrasi]

I think your c/s is one of the better  fakes.

Below two worse  fakes in my collection ... 

[Figleaf]

Unfortunately, I tend to agree. I have attached a picture from Gomes. Note the dot behind the P, the absence of a dot behind the G, the shape of the G (especially the serif) and the "underbelly" of the P, which is sloping on your coin and horizontal in Gomes. The crown seems pretty good to me, though.

The host coin should be a half crown.

Peter

[Afrasi]

I have some pictures of original countermarks, but they are in a word format, and I am to stupid to change them into a jpg format ... 

There are originals with two dot, too, but not like yours.

The cross on the crown is another bad mark.

Afrasi's pictures added. Upperpicture shows genuine c/s. Lower picture are imitations (except one.)

[andyg]

Thanks both,

One final question - the countermark on this British 2/6 looks to be smaller than those illustrated - if they were all of a consistent size then that's yet another point against it.

[Afrasi]

Sorry! I don't know ... I don't have the exact coin/countermark dates of my pictures.

[lusomosa]

Just one more remark on these countermarks.

Just like afrasi mentioned, the countermarks GP do not have mostly TWO dots but the dots ( 1 or 2 ) are not so much the question.
It is the style of the countermark that differenciate the fakes from the true ones.
The countermarks were made in orther to legalize the use of foreign coins in the Azores at a time when there was a lack of coins on the islands and many different "hands" made the crown on the contermark.
The clarity of the leafs on the top of the rim and the lines with pearls on the top identify the good coins.
Forgeries tend to make rugh drawings of these elements.
The GP shoud not be TOO big like in some of the images , peters comments on this are right to the point.

LP

[Austrokiwi]

I am continually astounded at auctions seeing Fake counter marked 1780 Maria Theresia Tales selling for €300 ( some times more).  I had not knwon the signs of a genuine counter mark till reading this thread but I do know how to date Maria Theresa talers, More often than not the base Maria theresa Talers are mid 20th century yet marked with counter marks dating to the 19th century............yet still they sell as if they were genuine.

[lusomosa]

I'm not that surprized.
Once I bought a Dutch Square thaler from Alkmaar . One of those coins minted during the siege of the town by the spanish.
Well I won the coin but I didn't like it. So I them went on duing what I should have done before but did not to it because it was a BIG AUCTION HOUSE.....
I did some reseach!!!!!!

I found out that it was a old forgery .... well documented....

I then sent an E-mail with 4/5 attachments AND a long , long TEXT.

I got all my money back with an excuse  ( I was not sure but I knew an expert would know it .......)   WHO is the expert then ?


It was me....


LP

[UK Decimal +]

An expert?   I'd suggest that an expert is someone who knows that information exists and where to find it.   Much better than relying on a dodgy memory!

Well done, by the way.   I've seen several dodgy things on eBay but so far I've only done something about one of them.   I've contacted the Royal Mint about it, but as their 'information desk' seems to come under their 'sales' department, I don't expect a sensible reply.

Bill.

[AZislands]

Hi all,

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it genuine-ness....

Andy

Hi Andy,
I think the countermark is genuine. It is a beautiful coin, congratulations.
If you want more information can do so through my email.

MRod

[AZislands]

Hi all,

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it genuine-ness....

Andy

I was taking a better look and the counterstamp seems too small. In order to be real it should measure about 8, 5 mm in diameter.

MRod

[andyg]

I was taking a better look and the counterstamp seems too small. In order to be real it should measure about 8, 5 mm in diameter.

MRod

Thanks, my countermark is only 5,5mm which I think is too small.

(By the way - welcome to the forum AZ Islands! - do you collect these countermarks?)