Author Topic: China - coins or tokens?  (Read 4606 times)

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Offline asm

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China - coins or tokens?
« on: December 19, 2009, 08:09:01 AM »
During one of my trips to Hong Kong, a few years before the British ceeded control of the territory to the Chinese, I had picked up the following packets. These were sold to me at the airport shop and believing in the British honesty, I had indeed thought of these as geniune coins. Since then, my collecting interest in non Indian coins had waned and I had pushed these coins in a corner.

Would some kind soul help confirm that even a few of these are genuine or are they all CHINESE ORIGINALS. The last packet (of which I have both the obverse and reverse) definately looks to be fakes.

Please help!!!!

Amit 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 04:10:01 AM by Quant.Geek »
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translateltd

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 09:29:42 AM »
Sorry to say, I think they're all questionable.

The last packet definitely consists of modern reproductions - I've seen them before in this country, too.  The speckled fields behind the letters are a giveaway, as is the fact that all the coins seem to be exactly the same size.

The first two "sets" are harder to make out, but some in the second group appear to have the same speckling, and some in the first are just too clumsy.  Some look like they might be legitimate, but they're in bad company, so are probably "guilty by association".





Offline asm

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 01:00:49 PM »
Martin,
Thanks for the reply. I was almost sure of the third packet. Did you see the extra material sticking at about 10 o'clock on the top right coin? It was a dead give away and I am not sure how I had missed it.

If, as you tend to believe, there could be a couple of geniune coins, is there any way, I can get the coins of the cardboard and clean them? It may be worth a try.

Since I had not paid a lot of money for the coins (I believe, I paid around a coulpe of US dollars for each lot), I have nothing much to loose.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

andyg

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2009, 02:11:06 PM »
the 2nd set look good to me, any chance of a bigger scan?

The Kwang-hsu coin looks to be one of those machine made Cash from the 1890's (probably from Kwang Tung)

In their favour is that these are all reatively common, so it's more likely they are genuine....

Offline Figleaf

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2009, 03:58:41 PM »
The first (except the spade and the funny colour cash) and second set look OK to me. As others said, the third set are known souvenirs. Are they all blank on the reverse? Some shouldn't ...

The Ching dynasty coins are all correctly identified. The first emperor of that dynasty, tien ming (era name), is missing but that makes sense as one of his coins would have doubled the price of the set. Now that the set is incomplete anyway, you may want to break it up so you can expand it (the tai ping rebellion is also missing, but it's easier to find).

The "Chinese currency" set is as follows:
First row, left to right:
1. Couldn't identify this coin
2. Couldn't identify this coin
3. Emperor Tai Tsung, era Tai Ping (976-984), Remmelts 20
4. Looks all wrong. Is this another coin or is it printed?

Second row, left to right:
1. Looks all wrong. Is this another coin or is it printed?
2. Emperor Wu Tsung, era Cheng Te (1506-1521), Remmelts 171
3. Early Western Han (206 BC - 9 AD) elm-pod half ouncer (pod cash). Not in Remmelts
4. Emperor Shen Tsung, era Chih Ho (1054) normal script, Remmelts 46

Peter
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 07:21:18 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline asm

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2009, 04:55:51 PM »
Peter,
Thanks for the details. Coin 4 in the first line and 1 in the second line are missing. In fact, the six coins are stuck on a pre printed card. The two blanks are seen as print of a coin.

I was wondering how to get the coins of the card as they seem pretty well stuck and that too not with a fake Chinese glue which has hardened for over 25 years.

Amit

"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline Figleaf

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 05:02:41 PM »
1. remove any plastic, pry the coins loose. Be careful with the older coins, they may break.
2. soak in water until all the paper is gone
3. dry well and let dry completely in the sun or on a central heating element

The last part, removing the glue, will be the most difficult. My first choice would be to solve it in acetone, but Bruce may have a better idea...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline asm

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2009, 05:18:51 PM »
Peter,
Today, I will put the two sets overnight in a bucket of water with the card. I hope it is easier to remove the coins that way. Once I am through with the removal of paper, I will try for the glue.
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline asm

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2009, 05:27:26 PM »
the 2nd set look good to me, any chance of a bigger scan?
Here is a bigger scan if it can help. Had to reduce compression to reduce file size.
Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

translateltd

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2009, 07:17:40 PM »
Thanks - the first three in the bottom row in the set you re-scanned don't look good to me, though it may just be surface corrosion.

In the very first set, the characters on the last coin on the bottom row (the one that Peter identifies as Remmelts 46) look clumsy to me, like a modern copy, but I haven't compared against any examples illustrated in any of my catalogues to be sure what the original was meant to look like.


Offline weepio

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2011, 02:17:48 PM »
First impression

the first top row first 3 coins could be real bat are in rather bad condition (Need further study)

The second set could be all genuine

The third set is most definitely fake, tourist money to take home and glue them into the photo-album.   

Offline Chinasmith

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2013, 04:06:04 AM »
All the coins in the third set are fakes made in the 1980's. I saw them for sale in Hong Kong in 1984, and if questioned, the sellers would say they were reproductions made in Taiwan. The same set was also for sale in Taiwan, where the dealers said they were made in Hong Kong!

The Ch'ing Dynasty set all appear to be genuine coins, though the T'ung Chih coin is a privately made counterfeit for circulation.

In the first set, all the coins on the bottom row look questionable. The Cheng Te coin, for example, does not exist; no coins were made in that reign. Many charms exist with that obverse. The coin in the first row appear to be genuine Sung dynasty coins, though difficult to read.
Researcher on coins, paper money and tokens of China.

Offline Prosit

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Re: China - coins or tokens?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2013, 04:34:51 AM »
I have a somewhat similar set I have been meaning to post. I posted a set before that wasn't real but this one is different but not real either.

Dale