Author Topic: Safavid, Shah Tahmasp I , 1 bisti of Shiraz mint  (Read 418 times)

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Offline mti

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Safavid, Shah Tahmasp I , 1 bisti of Shiraz mint
« on: March 09, 2021, 12:34:42 AM »
Hello,

Metrology of this coin:  1.1g  ||  14-17mm  ||  Silver

As I was looking through Zeno... I found similar coins from Ottoman Empire and from Juchid Dynasty... but they do not exactly match (text-wise)...
So I am asking for your help...  Thank you in advance... =))

Also, the second picture, looks like the coin was struck upon another coin like this with an imprint of an Obverse on the Reverse of this one... (hope it makes sense...)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 01:24:24 PM by saro »

Online aws22

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2021, 04:24:09 AM »
Dear mti, your coin reads Shah Tahmasp:
Safavids, Shah Tahmasp II, 1144 AH, Silver Shahi (uniface), mint? (AH 1135-1144/1722-1732 AD)
Obverse: “ ...... شاه طهماسب ثاني السلطان “, Shah Tahmasp Thani, al-Sultan ……
Date is at 8 O'clock, looks like " (11)44 (۱۱)۴۴ ".
Reverse: Mirror image of the obverse.

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2021, 09:23:12 AM »
 :applause: Maythem !
According to its weight, it should be 1 shahi coin.
The weight std of 1,34g was decreased to 1,15g by Nadir Shah and this coin could well have been struck at end of Tahmasp's reign (widely under control of Nadir at this time) as corroborated by the date (11)44 .

This uniface shahi looks like what is said a "shahi safid /white shahi" (as struck later as gift coins for nowruz or other events, mainly by Qajars)

Interesting and scarce coin  :)

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Online aws22

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2021, 10:26:41 AM »
Thank you Saro

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2021, 04:26:02 PM »
If it's  the word " ثاني / thani (second) " after "Shah Tahmasb", it is curiuously written with a "shin" (+ something else) instead of " ث ", and an "alif" which seems to be separated ?
another problem is that Tahmasp shah II never assumed on his coins the title of "sultan", unlike Tahmasp Shah I.
As the date is not clear, I have a doubt : Tahmasp Shah I or II ?
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline mti

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2021, 08:34:07 PM »
Thank you Maythem, Thank you Saro...

so based on what Saro is saying "possibly Tahmasp Shah I"  the date could be 944AH / 1537AD...!??!

Online aws22

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2021, 03:48:28 AM »
Thank you Saro, yes I agree that it could be Shah Tahmasp I with the date " (9)44 (۹)۴۴ ". I can also read the word " al-Adil العادل " under the word al-Sultan which could be part of Tahmasp I epithet:
" السلطان العادل الکامل الهادی الوالی ابو المظفر شاه طهماسب بهادر خان الصفوی خلد الله تعالی ملکه و سلطنه "; yet, the word " Shani شانى " needs clarification.

Maythem
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 08:05:36 AM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2021, 09:39:11 AM »
Thank you Maythem and mti.
I am now confident that at 9 o'clock, instead of " ثاني " or " شانى ",  we have to read the mintname "Shiraz" / " شیراز  " and that the separating line is the "B" of "zarb /  ضرب " with the first part " ضر " somewhere out of flan at bottom.

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Online aws22

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2021, 11:57:33 AM »
Thank you Saro, it is clear now, the mint is " Shiraz شيراز " and the ruler " Shah Tahmasp I شاه طهماسب يكم ", ID becomes:
Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, 944 AH, Silver Shahi (uniface), Shiraz mint (AH 930-984/1524-1578 AD)
Obverse: “ شاه طهماسب السلطان .... شيراز  “, Shah Tahmasp al-Sultan ...... Shiraz.
Date is at 8 O'clock, looks like " (9)44 (۹)۴۴ ".
Reverse: Mirror image of the obverse.

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Online Figleaf

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2021, 12:13:22 PM »
Reverse: Mirror image of the obverse.

An error known as brockage.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: Looks Ottoman or Juchid need help please...
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2021, 01:21:35 PM »
It should be a silver bisti (20 dinars), but according to Matthee (Monetary History of Iran / table 4.1), these coins appear only from 960 AH (std weight :1,17g)
One can see this one from Isfahan, posted some time ago.
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Online aws22

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Re: Safavid, Shah Tahmasp I , 1 bisti of Shiraz mint
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2021, 02:48:55 PM »
Dear Saro, there is a silver 25 Dinars “ Half Shahi نیم شاهی “, issued during Tahmasp I rule, from 945 to 982 AH, standard weight 1.15 grams, diameter 15 mm. Such coin is struck at “ ایروان ، قم ، خزانه ، شیراز Shiraz, Khazana (The Palace Mint, Treasury), Qum & Erivan “.

Maythem
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 03:00:22 PM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: Safavid, Shah Tahmasp I , 1 bisti of Shiraz mint
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2021, 03:32:42 PM »
You are right Maythem
In addition, I have found that Farahbakhsh (1975) gives two denominations : 1 bisti and later 1 pul with similar weights.
- 1 bisti of 1,11g (20 dinars) struck fom 938 to 945 AH / std of  2900 nokhods for 1 toman
- 1 pul of   1,15g (25 dinars) struck fom 945 to 982 AH / std of  2400 nokhods for 1 toman

 Step by step I think that the ID is achieved  :) ...
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Online aws22

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Re: Safavid, Shah Tahmasp I , 1 bisti of Shiraz mint
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2021, 06:54:12 PM »
Thank you Saro

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".