Author Topic: Khwarezm, copper jital, 1200-1220  (Read 5603 times)

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Offline Rangnath

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Khwarezm, copper jital, 1200-1220
« on: July 11, 2007, 01:23:25 AM »
I've given this coin a few hours of time that revealed very little. 
I think I read "Allah" on the left.  Am I making progress?
I used Gandara because I like the name, and because a coin from there could be linked with Afghanistan, Iran, India and of course Kashmir and Jammu. 
And because the valley and surrounding area around Kabul provided us with some interesting icons:  Bhuddist, Hindu, Moslem and Christian.  I remember reading that the first images of Bhudda and Jesus might have come from the same locale. Competition breeds inovation.
Anyway, back to this coin. I have no reason to believe it came from Gandara. 
It is 3.3 grams, and 16 mm across. 
Any ideas where it might be from?
Richie
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 05:45:51 PM by THCoins »

translateltd

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Re: Copper Coin from Gandara?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2007, 09:12:18 AM »
Good start - I read the side shown at left as La Allah Illa Allah Mohammad Rasul Allah (There is no God but God, Mohammed is the Prophet of God).  Not sure about the other side though ...

translateltd

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Re: Copper Coin from Gandara?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2007, 09:16:43 AM »
As for the right-hand side, the top word *may* be "Sultan", and the second word on the second line is almost certainly Mohammed, but I can't make the rest out at all.  So possibly Sultan somebody Mohammed something ...

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Copper Coin from Gandara?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2007, 05:22:00 PM »
Thanks for the information.
I think its auspicious that the first word in Arabic that I was able to discern was "Allah"! 
Well, maybe that's a stretch. 
I'll start investigating Sultan Mohammeds.  How many could there be with such an unusual name?
Richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Copper Coin from Gandara?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2007, 05:28:34 PM »
Yes, you are right, Rangnath. It is not from Gandara.  ;)

...

Huh?

...

Where it IS from?

Well, with translateltd's lead and the great help of our Arab expert I fugured out that that, as Martin mentioned, the kalimah is on the reverse and on the obverse is the text: Al-Sultan-al Azam Muhammad Shah al-Sultan. And who is he? Well, he is known to the world as Muhammad II of Khwarezm (1200-1220AD). You are going to like the story of the man who thought he could stick out his tongue to Genghis Khan. Oooooh. Bad kharma! 8)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Copper Coin from Gandara?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2007, 06:01:57 PM »
What incredible news this is!!!! 

I went to a coin store in Portland three weeks ago and told them of my interests in Indian coins and of my attempts at going through Richard Plant's book.  The owner is a very nice person but almost all of his stock  consists of US coiins.  But he had one unidentified coin with "squiggly" lines on it and he gave it to me!

I just finished reading a brief account of Muhammad II of Khwarezm. 
Personally, I'm all for proper respect of envoys, even if they are from Ghengis Khan!

I am delighted with this revelation!
richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Copper Coin from Gandara?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2007, 06:39:56 PM »
Many people look down on coins in another script. They don't take the time to sit down and study. Dealers are right, commercially speaking. A US coin is easier to identify, easier to sell for a larger profit. For collectors this approach is a BIG mistake, though. There's so much to discover you can spend a lifetime with squiggly coins. It is so rewarding to complete the puzzles that they are and they are unbelievably cheap. And reading Arabic and Chinese coins is not above the human capacity. With patience, everyone can do it.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

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Re: Khwarezm, copper jintal, 1200-1220
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2007, 09:21:53 PM »
Now you've pointed it out, I can make out the first word on the second line as  'adhm, which would be transcribed as Azam as you say.

Is "jintal" right for the denomination?  I've seen "jital" before, without the n.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Khwarezm, copper jital, 1200-1220
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2007, 11:15:35 PM »
You're right, Martin. Typo. Now corrected. Thanks.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Khwarezm, copper jital, 1200-1220
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2007, 11:34:31 PM »
Wouldn't "jital" be more appropriate for a coin made with silver and copper; a billon coin? This coin appears to be a copper coin; a fals or falus?
Or something esle?
richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Khwarezm, copper jital, 1200-1220
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2007, 12:02:40 AM »
There are several jital on this page, both billon and copper.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Khwarezm, copper jital, 1200-1220
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2007, 12:28:54 AM »
Thanks Peter.
A copper jital from the Shah of Sultans, Azam Muhammad! Undoubtably a lucky coin, as Muhammad died from pleurisy rather than from the delicate hands of Ghengis Khan. 
Richie

BC Numismatics

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Khivan copper coin.
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2007, 06:21:28 AM »
Richie,Khwarezm was also better known as Khiva,which was more properly known as the Khanate of Khiva.

Here's an article; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khiva .

Aidan.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Khwarezm, copper jital, 1200-1220
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2007, 05:11:11 PM »
Aidan,
I think the term "Khanate" was a Mongol one.  Our coin came from a Turkic or Iranian people. 
Richie