Author Topic: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold  (Read 478 times)

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Offline Pellinore

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These coins attract me very much, but I can't quite place them. The upper two apparently are Seljuq dinars minted in Balkh by Sanjar (1118-1157) as sole ruler. The right piece looks like a fourrée.

The lower two, the grey ones, were sold to me as Ghorid coins issued by Ghiyath al-din Muhammad bin Sam (1163-1203), mint Taliqan. With a very low gold content, but still - dinars.


Can anybody help me out reading these? They are great works of art obviously. But what is in the honeycomb cells and why was it presented like this? They measure 23 mm and weigh between 3.3 and 4.6 gr. I will give you more detailed pictures if you wish, naturally.

-- Paul
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 08:14:02 AM by Pellinore »

Offline aws22

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2020, 01:17:21 PM »
Dear Pual, the top two coins with the honeycomb cells; each cell has the word " Malik ملك " written in kufic Arabic inside it, meaning "King".
The bottom two coins have Islamic inscriptions on both sides which needs looking at individually.

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline shiblius

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2020, 07:15:10 AM »
Ghorid issues, probably Ghiyath al-din.

Offline Manzikert

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2020, 01:00:22 PM »
Prompted by shiblius I found https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=254156 which appears actually to be your top left coin, and https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=139504 which is actually your bottom left coin, so they all seem to be Ghiyath al-din Muhammad bin Sam, just different issues.

Alan

Offline aws22

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2020, 01:28:52 PM »
Dear Paul, I will reconsider my reply.

Maythem
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 09:41:57 AM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline aws22

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2020, 04:02:12 PM »
Dear Paul, I will reconsider my reply.

Maythem
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 09:42:27 AM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline Pellinore

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2020, 01:41:00 AM »
Thank you very much! So they are all Ghorid coins of more or less the same type. The Seljuq type of Sanjar, Album 1687B is different? I would like to have a look at it. It's not on Zeno. Yes, I bought the two coins that look like gold from the Parscoins auction and this grey one from Bactrianumis. The other grey one is from another seller.

I made some larger photos for you, maybe you can discern some significant details. Numbering the coins I presented as:
1, 2
3, 4

the diameters are all the same: about 23 mm, and the weights:
1: 3.34 gr. 2: 4.65 gr.
3: 4.22 gr. 4: 3.53 gr.

-- Paul

This is Nr. 1: 23 mm, 3.34 gr.






Offline Pellinore

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2020, 01:46:19 AM »
Coin nr. 2, 23 mm and 4.65 gr.

Offline Pellinore

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2020, 01:52:06 AM »
Nr. 3. 23 mm, 4.22 gr.

Offline Pellinore

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2020, 02:01:15 AM »
Nr. 4. 23 mm, 3.53 gr.


Offline Manzikert

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2020, 08:23:57 AM »
https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3167&lot=833.

When I searched for dinars of Sanjar on CoinArchives https://www.coinarchives.com/w/results.php?search=GREAT+SELJUQ&s=0 the only two with the hexagon design which came up were your two better gold ones: I'm afraid it looks as if Pars had misidentified them.

Alan

Offline aws22

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2020, 09:39:13 AM »
Dear Paul, your previous photos arrangement was misleading. I have read the coins in pairs left & right. I will reconsider my replies.

Maythem
 
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline Pellinore

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2020, 10:25:57 AM »
Dear Maythem, sorry about that. I hoped putting the four obverses next to each other would ease comparing.
-- Paul

Offline aws22

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2020, 04:30:03 PM »
Dear Pual, Coin No.1:
Reverse (First Photo):
Field
Honeycomb cells; each cell has the word " Malik ملك “ written in kufic Arabic inside it, meaning "King".
Margin
Not clear
Obverse (Second photo):
Field
لا اله الا الله La Ilah illa Allah
وحده لا ش  Wahdahu la Sha..
ريك له \ محمد  ..rik Lahu / Muahmmad
رسول الله \ الناصر Rasul Allah al-Nasir
بالله \ أمير المؤمنين Billah / Amir al-Mu’mineen
Please note the name of the Abbasid Caliph is written on this coin as al-Nasir Billah instead of al-Nasir Li-Din Allah.

Maythem
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 10:20:35 PM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline aws22

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Re: 12th century dinars with honeycomb obverse, containing very little gold
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2020, 04:40:51 PM »
Dear Pual, Coin No.2:
Ghorids, Ghiyath al-Din Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Sam, citing the Abbasid Caliph al-Nasir Li-Din Allah, Date?, Gold dinar, mint? (AH 558-599/1163-1203 AD)
Reverse (First Photo):
Field
Honeycomb cells; each cell has the word " Malik ملك “ written in kufic Arabic inside it, meaning "King".
Margin
Not clear
Reverse (Second photo):
Field
السلطان المعظم  al-Sultan Al-Mu'azzam
غياث الدنيا و  Ghiyath al-Dunya wa
الدين ابو الفتح al-Din abu’l-Fath
محمد بن سام  Muhammad ibn Sam
“al-Sultan al-Mu’azzam Ghiyath al-Dunya wa al-Din abu’l-Fath, Muhammad ibn Sam"
Inner Margin: At the top, left and right it reads:
الله أعلى , Allah is (The Most High).
At the bottom there is an ornament.
Ring Margin:
Mint and Date, not readable.
Please note the name of the Abbasid Caliph is written on this coin as al-Nasir Billah instead of al-Nasir Li-Din Allah.

Maythem
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 10:20:54 PM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".