Author Topic: Armavir: Civil War Coinage  (Read 6861 times)

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Offline Zantetsuken

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Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« on: October 29, 2009, 05:57:13 AM »
While there were numerous banknotes issued during the Russian Civil War, there were very few coins issued during this period. However, ARMAVIR in the Caucasus, was one area that issued local coinage. They had three denominations 1, 3 and 5 Ruble coins (the 5 Ruble coin being the rarest of the three), all dated 1918.  The two specimens listed a 3 Ruble (Type 2), and a 5 Ruble coin. All coins from this area carry the double-headed eagle stripped of it's crown and regalia, symbolising Russia's former glory.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 08:22:26 PM by <k> »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 07:49:57 PM »
Most excellent and very scarce coins. I enjoyed them. Have you figured out the legends?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 11:14:39 PM »
Hello!

Av: Armavir branch of state bank


Rev: change token / x Rubel / 1918

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2009, 12:39:00 AM »
Most excellent and very scarce coins. I enjoyed them. Have you figured out the legends?

Peter

Thanks Peter. Sorry for the delay in the response. Its pretty much like 'Afrasi' said, it's the 'Armavir Branch State Bank' on the obverse. The reverse says 'Change Token' then the respective denomination.  I was pretty sure what the Cyrillic legend said, but I wanted to be sure what the translation was before posting my response. Thank you 'Afrasi' for the translation, if your reading this message.

~Daniel

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2009, 02:44:57 AM »
Got the Russian legends now: ARMAVIRSKOIE OTDelenie GOSUDARSTVENNAGO BANKA (Armavir branch state bank, as you wrote) and RAZMENNYI ZNAK (change token).

Coin or token?

Peter
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 07:55:44 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2009, 03:23:52 AM »
Got the Russian legends now: ARMAVIRSKOIE OTDelenie GOSUDARSTVNAGO BANKA (Armavir branch state bank, as you wrote) and RAZMENNYI ZNAK (change token).

Coin or token?

Peter

Hi Peter. I think Krause lists this as a token.  This is the only series of coins issued inside Russia during the civil war. This was probably because the territories kept changing hands frequently, and the value of the currency kept devaluing as a result. Thus, it probably wasn't worth the effort of issuing new coins because of the unstable conditions. Banknotes were much more prevelent between 1917 and 1922 until the war wound down. But the years of war took its toll on the economy as rampant inflation hit most if not all of the former Russian Empire, especially in Transcaucasia and Central Asia. Sorry if I got long winded, but this is my theory. By the way, thanks for the translation. I can read Cyrillic writing fairly well, but I know very little as far as Russian words. Most of the words I know is from collecting Russian coins and notes.

~Daniel.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 03:39:04 AM by Zantetsuken »

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2014, 06:48:10 AM »
It took a long time to acquire (almost 5 years since my last post of this thread), but here is the 1 Ruble for Armavir. This is the second rarest issue of the three denominations for the area.


ARMAVIR (MUNICIPAL)~1 Ruble 1918

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2014, 10:50:29 AM »
Nice piece! There are traces of the host coin, specially to the left and right of the eagle's tail.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2014, 08:06:33 PM »
You are right, but that's a problem. If the host is a copper, 22mm Russian coin, the obvious candidate is 2 kopeks 1924 (Y 77), which makes the letters shown. Except that 1924 probably comes after 1918, so at least one of the dates on the coins should be bogus or the host isn't a Russian coin...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2014, 07:14:00 AM »
Thanks Afrasi, I'm glad you like it. I noticed the shadowed images shortly after I got this. It looks to either be a die clash or strike through error.


Offline andyg

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2014, 10:51:59 AM »


I would not buy those ebay coins Gerard - spot the difference with the one upthread.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Zantetsuken

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2014, 11:27:03 AM »
hello
I dont know Armavir but by curiosity i have finded on the net and i have seen that. What do you think ??
http://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/russian-caucasia-armavir-rouble-km-1-1918-cuid-52863-duid-143827
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Russie-Armavir-1918-1-rouble-cuivre-/201107337730?#ht_61wt_1348
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Russie-Armavir-1918-3-roubles-cuivre-/191212474981?pt=FR_GW_Pi%C3%A8cesMonde&hash=item2c8526d265#ht_61wt_1348
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Russie-Armavir-1918-5-roubles-cuivre-/201107337728?pt=FR_GW_Pi%C3%A8cesMonde&hash=item2ed2ee7200#ht_61wt_1348
if is not a fake the price is very good,
best regards  Gerard
These are fakes Gerard. The designs on them are all wrong, especially the eagle. The 1 Ruble coin that 'andyg' pointed out, has an extremely wide rim which it shouldn't. At least, not from any of the specimens I've seen. The 1 Ruble is the most commonly forged of all the deniminations, although numerous fakes have been showing up of the 3 and 5 Ruble coins lately. Unless you're lucky, you'll never find these for under $100 USD. The average: 1 Ruble- $600, 3 Ruble (Type1)-$300 and 5 Ruble-$800. Note, these prices vary depending on conditions, so this is based on coins at XF or higher. The 3 Ruble (Type 1) is the most commonly found of all three denominations. The 5 Ruble is the rarest, with the 3 Ruble (Type 2) being a close second.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 11:38:35 AM by Zantetsuken »

Offline gerard974

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2014, 01:47:38 PM »
hello
thank you very much my friend,with you i know many thinks ;D ;D
best regards  gerard

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Armavir: Civil War Coinage
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 04:59:11 PM »
It can't be die clash, although it looks like an attractive solution. Note the star below the eagle and the •-• decoration below РУБЛЬ, both design aids that indicate the 6 o'clock position. The Б is right in the centre, so it cannot be left of the eagle's tail. The Р is too far to the left. If it were a die clash, there would have been a У left of the eagle's tail and whatever it is, it is not a У.

For similar reasons, it cannot be the 2 kopeks 1924 either, because the font used on that coin is sans serif. Mysterious.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.