Author Topic: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint  (Read 702 times)

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Offline maudry

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Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« on: October 04, 2018, 10:28:16 PM »
Hello,
I can't figure out which animal(s) should be depicted on this coin.
But it has long ears and a long tail.
Unfortunately very worn.
Size: 17mm
Weight: 4.52gr
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 10:08:28 PM by maudry »

Offline andyg

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always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Copper coin with animal on both sides
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 10:47:50 AM »
A Rat from Herat, I have a couple of these, also ticketed as Herat. I'm not sure where the attribution to Herat originates as it's not in Valentine which is surprising
Vic

Offline maudry

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Re: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2018, 10:09:40 PM »
Thank you for your id.
The one on vcoins has some readable legend, I think.
So maybe it is visible there?

Offline EWC

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Re: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2018, 12:53:18 PM »
I suspect a Mongoose - tho' the ears are a bit big.


Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 06:22:07 PM »
I too have some doubts with the image of a rat on an islamic coin (this one has been struck under Safavids), as the rat  is considered an impure animal...
the rat has not long legs  and the mangoose have small round ears...
I wonder if that can't be a desert fox, also known as "white footed fox" ? a small asiatic subspecies of the red fox who lives in desertic areas of north western indian subcontinent : Pakistan'deserts / Baluchistan/ southern Iran...

"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline EWC

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Re: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 06:50:22 PM »
Yes, I think I agree - looks more likely.  Has to be some creature famous in folk law I think - but the fox is - most places - I suspect.

If you google [Hexham fox geese] and go to images - there is a strange carving from the tomb of a medieval bishop there

A fox preaching to geese.   Surprisingly candid I thought, for a bishop   :)

Rob T

Offline andyg

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Re: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2019, 08:45:42 PM »
Found one of these with what appears to be a date - 1107.

It looks more like a Kangaroo on this one :)
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Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2019, 11:51:53 PM »
The rat is one of the twelve animals of the Chinese zodiac and it could be the reason why it is found on a civic coin of Herat (struck under Safavids)
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Offline andyg

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Re: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2019, 12:22:48 AM »
That rat goes left - this rat goes right.  Maudry's rat goes all over the place ;D
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2019, 07:20:37 AM »
I wonder how Herat and whatever the word for rat is are pronounced locally and whether the rat could be a pun on the name.

The town of Arras in Northern France used a rat as mint mark. The second syllable of Arras is pronounced the same as rat in French.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: Afghanistan, Civic Copper with rat on both sides, Herat mint
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2019, 09:12:05 AM »
I wonder how Herat and whatever the word for rat is are pronounced locally and whether the rat could be a pun on the name.

The town of Arras in Northern France used a rat as mint mark. The second syllable of Arras is pronounced the same as rat in French.
Pure coincidence in both cases, I'm afraid... :-\
No phonetic similarity between "Herat" and "rat" in persian, urdu or pachto (persian : موس  like in english)
For Arras, at time of Louis XIII, during the war with spanish, these last controlled the city and when french soldiers entered in Arras, they found this inscription : "When french will take Arras, mice will eat cats" ! since this time each year there was a mouse party till very recently...
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)