Author Topic: Algiers, KM59 - 1/3 budju 1223  (Read 3953 times)

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Offline Rangnath

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Algiers, KM59 - 1/3 budju 1223
« on: July 04, 2007, 06:33:07 AM »
My resources are confined to The World Catalog of Coins and I can not find this coin in the catalog.
I have had the coin translated, at least somewhat.
On the left it reads "Sultan Mahmoud  (Mahmud)" 
On the right it reads "the coin was struck in 'Hazra', in the year 1223AH", or 1809 AD. That places the coin within the second reign of Sultan Mahmud.
The coin is about 20 mm and weighs 3.3 grams.  From the color of the coin and the fine detail, I'm guessing that this is a debased silver or billon coin and therefore a quarter rupee.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Richie
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 06:50:44 PM by Figleaf »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unpublished Afghan coin?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2007, 10:25:34 AM »
I am not in shape. I should have been able to find this one myself, but I didn't. Our oft-consulted Arabic expert brought relief:

The coin is in the name of the Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II (AH1223-1252/1808-1839), mint is "Jaza'ir"(Algiers). Date is AH1223.

This copy has the mint in an octogram. Although I do not have weight and diameter, I suspect that it is a 1/3 budju (3,25-3,80 g. dia. ca. 20mm). Between AH1223-1229, this type was struck with the mint in an octogram. All other denominations have the legend in a circle. The type is listed in KM under #59.


Peter
« Last Edit: July 07, 2007, 11:24:44 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Unpublished Afghan coin?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2007, 06:27:43 PM »
It is a beautiful coin.  My guess is that the grade of the coin is VF, very little loss of detail due to wear, though with some weakness to the strike.  Or is it an F; all the details are in evidence though quite faint in areas where the strike was poor?

I?ve learned a lesson with this coin that I probably will have to learn time and time again:  be objective!

I wanted this coin to be from Afghanistan.  Why?  I don?t know.  I like the country and the people that I met.  The history of the place fascinates me.  My friend read the coin correctly and I had enough clues to make a correct determination but for my bias.  When my friend said that the coin was minted in ?Hazra?, it was a difficult to read the first letters of the word, I tried to turn that into ?Herat?! With the name Sultan Mahmud and the date, I tried to match that with Mahmud Shah of Afghanistan even though I could plainly see that the appearance of Afghani coins in no way resembled the coin in my possession!

So my first reaction to the news that this coin was from Algeria was to feel irritated!  How could I have been so wrong! 
But then I noticed that this Ottoman coin is pretty good deal for the $4 I paid for it and it remains a very beautiful coin. OK.  I accept the news. I embrace my Ottoman. But I will attempt to be more dispassionate in my analysis in the future.
Thanks Peter.
Richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unpublished Afghan coin?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2007, 06:49:54 PM »
Don't feel bad, Rangnath. On the coin, it says JZR, not HZR, but that's the only (small) error made, apart from looking in the wrong place. Filling in the bad vowels when going to or from Arab script happens more often. In German-speaking areas, a common denomination (until the introduction of the euro) was groschen. In North Africa, this denomination became girsh or guerche by putting the wrong vowels in the wrong place.

It is indeed an interesting coin. In these days, Algiers was still a pirate's nest and a centre of the slave trade. They succeeded in irritating the whole world, from France to the US and from Britain to Russia, making their eventual colonization inevitable, according to the mores of the time. The 1/3 budju was the workhorse of the Algerian coin system, much like the quarter in the US today. But is it a 1/3 budju? Can you confirm diameter, please?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Unpublished Afghan coin?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2007, 07:03:12 PM »
Yes indeed, the coin is 20 mm ( the coin is almost square and the diagonal measurement is almost 22.5 mm ) and weighs 3.3 grams. 

So, a 1/3 budju it is!

What was the logic in divisions of three? Loss of fingers for petty crimes?
richie

 

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unpublished Afghan coin?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2007, 11:35:08 PM »
What was the logic in divisions of three? Loss of fingers for petty crimes?

 :D

Better to lose a finger for theft, than being wrung by the neck until death follows for theft. Especially if you are a hungry minor caught stealing bread. :(

I presume the unusual denomination has something to do with the tariff of the budju at 24 mazuna, so that 1/3 budju is 8 mazuna (or 16 kharub).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Unpublished Afghan coin?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2007, 12:25:58 AM »
And now I know why it's divided into thirds!

Most Americans can hum the melody to the Marine Hymn.  Many, including me, can sing along: 
?From the halls of Montezuma,  To the shores of Tripoli,
We fight our country?s battles, In the air, on land, and sea.?

I won?t go into the history of my country?s failed invasions carried out by forgotten courageous soldiers, except to say that our Marines arrived at Tripoli just three years before this coin was minted on the same Barbary Coast. Seven years after the minted date of this coin, in 1815, the US attacked Algiers.  It seems we found piracy and slavery repugnant unless of course we could get a fair piece of the action. 

?First to fight for right and freedom, And to keep our honor clean,
We are proud to claim the title Of United States Marines.
If the Army and the Navy Ever gaze on Heaven's scenes,  They will find the streets are guarded By United States Marines.? 

But Lord, I don?t need the Marines! You promised me 72 Virgins! Which reminds me of an Osama Bin Laden Joke, but I think my time is up.
Richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unpublished Afghan coin?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2007, 09:27:59 AM »
It all reminds me of a movie I saw in an airplane a few years back. It started out by a platoon of US marines marching through the streets of a North African city. They storm the palace of the local ruler, shoot everything that moves and end up before a super-decadent local despot, who shoves a dead body aside and says to the commanding officer (a lieutenant, if I remember correctly): "you are a very dangerous young man, you know". :D

Alas, as so often, I fell asleep not long afterwards...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

BC Numismatics

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Algiers AH1223 1/3 Budju KM59.
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2008, 07:17:03 AM »
Richie,
 Algiers is now the capital of Algeria,which is a French-speaking country in north Africa.

That's a very nice coin that you've got there.

Aidan.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Algiers, KM59 - 1/3 budju 1223
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2008, 06:49:32 PM »
Algeria is Arabic speaking!!!

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Algiers, KM59 - 1/3 budju 1223
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2008, 12:18:00 PM »
Indeed. Except in Hollywood movies.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

BC Numismatics

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Algiers, KM59 - 1/3 Budju 1223.
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2008, 12:22:58 PM »
Algeria is Arabic speaking!!!

Algeria is also a Francophone country like Mauritania,Senegal,Guinea,& Niger are.

Aidan.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Algiers, KM59 - 1/3 budju 1223
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2008, 12:38:21 PM »
Sure. Like the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark and Sweden are English-speaking. Calling these countries French-speaking is insensitive and wrong.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.