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Jersey 10 pence 1977

Started by Grin, March 03, 2018, 09:14:43 AM

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Grin

I have a 10p piece 1977 of Jersey without the inscription 'NEW' on it. Does this make the coin rare?  Could you tell me, please, coin 10 pence 1977 Jersey without "NEW" is forgery or not.

Globetrotter

Hi,

since the year 1977 doesn't exist for any denomination in the catalogs for Jersey, it would indicate that your coin is a forgery....

Ole

Alan71

#2
There definitely were a few 1977-dated 50p coins that I think have been determined to be genuine, so this 10p might be as well.  The theory is that the Royal Mint were trying out the new dies, so these are effectively trial pieces. 

The next proper Jersey coins to be issued were dated 1980, but these all contained the old "New Pence" inscriptions.  It wasn't until 1981 that coins that looked like these 1977 examples (but dated 1981) were issued.  If they were doing trials in 1977, it's uncertain why they hadn't got all the dies ready by 1980.

Guernsey dropped "New" in 1977 and issued four of six denominations with that date.  Jersey presumably didn't require any new coins at that point.

See 1977 Jersey 50p.

In particular, the letter that Mark Fitzgerald got from the Royal Mint regarding his 1977 50p:

"The Royal Mint collection includes four 1977-dated Jersey 50p coins, all of which omit the word NEW from the reverse inscription (ie FIFTY PENCE instead of FIFTY NEW PENCE). The tickets associated with each of these coins record the following information.

(1) 50 pence 1977, 1.11.1977, Trial without NEW
(2) 50 pence 1977, 1.11.1977, Trial without NEW
(3) 50 pence 1977, 1.12.1977, coin die trial
(4) 50 pence 1977, CPR files 5.7.2002, wo 165, 140 tons

"It seems likely, therefore, that your coin is a trial piece. To offer a definitive opinion, however, we would need to examine it here at the Royal Mint. If you would like to submit the coin for analysis, please send it to Dr Kevin Clancy, Head of Historical Services, at the following address: The Royal Mint, Llantrisant, Pontyclun, CF72 8YT. There is no charge for this service and the coin, which would not be damaged in any way, would be returned to you in due course with a report of our findings."

 

Grin

#3
Dear gentlemens, thank you very much for your feedback and recommendations. I also had the assumption that the coin was a trial. Confuse only two points, namely: - the coin was found in the city of Kiev (Ukraine); - there is no data on the presence of at least one copy of the coin from other collectors.
                                                Regards,    Igor.


Alan71

Might be worth you contacting the Royal Mint and asking them about it.  I certainly wouldn't send your coin anywhere at this stage, particularly if you're based in Kiev.

It does make me wonder what else is out there.  If the two highest denominations (at the time) were prepared, then were the others?

Jersey issued all six denominations in massive numbers dated 1980, meaning that the 1981 coins (without "New") had smaller issues.  Apart from 10p and 2p dated 1975, the 1980 coins were Jersey's first since the 1968-71 decimalisation.  Jersey must have wanted the adjustments in time for 1980, but the Mint let them down.  The evidence of these 1977 trial issues strengthens that belief.

Grin

Yes, I have already contacted the Royal Mint. Here's their answer:
Thank you for your e-mail.
Regrettably we are unable to help with this query and would advise you to contact the issuing authority of coins for Jersey.

Regards
Jodie
Customer Services   
The Royal Mint


eurocoin

You should have contacted the Royal Mint Museum, not The Royal Mint. However for an outsider it will be an extremely long wait before the Royal Mint Museum replies to enquiries (if ever). Therefore if you wish I can make the necessary enquiries for you. It will still take a few weeks but at least you and WoC will then have some first hand information about your piece and the (possible) other pieces in the series of 1977 trial coins of Jersey.

Alan71

Grin, I would take eurocoin up on his offer.  If anyone can get this info, he can!

Grin

 I asked to inform me e-mail address of the Royal mint Museum and received a reply:
«Good morning, Jody.
On the photo the coin, the information about which interests me. I can't find the address to contact the issuing body of the coins to Jersey. Can you help me?

                                                     Best regards, Igor.

We are unable to provide these details I'm afraid.

Kind Regards
Customer Service»

Grin

Dear eurocoin, this is a wonderful offer on your part.  If you don't mind, please do it.

                                             Best regards

andyg

Nice coin - It certainly matches the 50p.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Grin

Quote from: eurocoin on March 03, 2018, 03:24:23 PM
You should have contacted the Royal Mint Museum, not The Royal Mint. However for an outsider it will be an extremely long wait before the Royal Mint Museum replies to enquiries (if ever). Therefore if you wish I can make the necessary enquiries for you. It will still take a few weeks but at least you and WoC will then have some first hand information about your piece and the (possible) other pieces in the series of 1977 trial coins of Jersey.
Hello, EuroCoin.
Have you information about 10 pence 1977 from the Royal Mint Museum?

eurocoin

Quote from: Grin on April 15, 2018, 09:53:03 AM
Hello, EuroCoin.
Have you information about 10 pence 1977 from the Royal Mint Museum?

Hello Igor, I expect to receive the information tomorrow.  :)

eurocoin

I have today received the following information:

24 samples of 50p, 10p, 5p, 2p, 1p and 1/2p pieces dated 1977 were made. The samples were sent to the Royal Mint's Quality Manager first; two of each were then sent to the Deputy Treasurer for the States of Jersey Treasury, and four remain in the Royal Mint Museum

In 1977 Mr J Clennett, Treasurer for the States of Jersey, placed an order with the Royal Mint to replenish stocks of all circulating coins. During the ordering process, the Jersey Treasury decided that they would like to change elements of the designs, namley omitting the word 'NEW' in the inscription for the denomination and splitting the date so it would appear either side of the shield on the reverse.

New dies were produced to these specifications and samples were made and sent to the Jersey Treasury for approval. At the same time, however, it was discovered by the Jersey Treasury that for changes to be made to coinage designs the laws in Jersey would need to be amended so production of the coins was halted to allow this process to take place.

As the order had not been fulfilled by 1980, it was decided that the coinage order should be cancelled and changed to an order for new tooling designs.

Grin

Dear Eurocoin, thank you very much for your information. Now we can with a high degree of probability (highly-likely) to believe this coin is genuine. It remains to be know how many coins 10 pence 1977 were in free circulation.

                                            Best regards,   Igor.