Author Topic: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan  (Read 431 times)

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Offline Pellinore

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Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« on: August 13, 2017, 01:54:14 AM »
This is the other coin came in today, a very large broad AE dirham dating from the 650's. I believe I can read '50' at the foot of the reverse.
Broad AE dirhams were minted in Central Asia in about 1150-1275, I believe. This one with 40 mm is my largest but there certainly are larger ones. It was minted in Otrar (now a ruin city in the South Kazakhstan Region province where the Arys River flows into the Syr Darja, near Shauldir).

AE broad dirham Möngke Khan, Otrar mint. Obv. Kalima. 4 horizontal lines of text under a V-like motif and in a circle, encircled with text. Rev. 4 lines of text in a double circle, encircled with text. 40 mm, 8.35 gr. Album 1978C.1. 007GRK0020. Zeno #165907.

-- Paul

 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 09:05:20 AM by THCoins »

Offline THCoins

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 10:57:44 AM »
I looked at both your links, but now i am a bit confused  ???
The MongolianCons website suggests it should be Album-1979, not 1978 ?
The Zeno specimen has "Mongku Khani" in the top line, which lacks in yours. Are you sure about the attribution ?

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 11:48:04 AM »
No, I'm not sure! Please tell me what's right.
-- Paul

Offline THCoins

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 12:01:21 PM »
I still find these notoriously difficult. Will try to look a bit further when i have some time on my hands.

Anthony

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 01:25:40 PM »
Zeno #100842 is nearer the mark, I see now. It doesn't say 'Mangu khani' but just 'khani' at the top line. Here's the entry of Album 1978C.1.
-- Paul


Offline THCoins

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 03:09:35 PM »
Yes, just "Khani" would fit better. So still Album-1978 it is !

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2018, 07:26:59 PM »
My guess is the following Zeno section is the most appropriate as a reference for this type:

Unknown rulers/periods » AE silver washed dirham » Otrar 649-663

Offline THCoins

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 08:08:05 PM »
And i see that also on Zeno these caused some confusion. Thanks for the link !

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 08:38:15 PM »
Dear THCoins, you are welcome! In my opinion, this type was struck not earlier than 1251 AD / 649 AH, as E. A. Davidovich in her work "The monetary economy of Central Asia after the Mongol conquest and the Masud Beg reform (13th century)" on several occasions states that AE silver washed dirhams in the first and second half of 13 c. AD were regularly struck only in Samarqand and Bukhara (while mints to the South of Amu-Daria, such as Balkh, Ghaznah, Badakhshan etc. are not covered by her book)..

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2019, 01:49:57 AM »
A useful book about Central Asia in the 8th-13th century also mentions this type (on p. 405), the Unesco book about History of civilizations of Central Asia in a chapter about coinage and economy by E. A. Davidovich and A. H. Dani. Well worth reading, and readily available on the internet.

-- Paul

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Great Mongols broad dirham, Möngke Khan
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2019, 09:33:07 AM »
Thank you for the link!

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.