Comments on "Croatia: Nazi Satellite State, 1941-5"

[Figleaf]

Parent topic:

Croatia: Nazi Satellite State, 1941-5.

Piddling, maybe but significant: on the early (around 1934) design, the "logo" of the Ustaša is a U with a bomb. On the later designs (around 1941), it is a U in an elaborate frame. I guess that, once in power, they were seeking "respectability".

Peter

[<k>]

Piddling, maybe but significant: on the early (around 1934) design, the "logo" of the Ustaša is a U with a bomb. On the later designs (around 1941), it is a U in an elaborate frame. I guess that, once in power, they were seeking "respectability".

Peter

Agreed. Yet they kept the bomb on their pattern dated 1941:



This is a pattern only, and no coin of that design was ever issued; however, none of the other patterns of that series includes the bomb.

[tonyF]

Having read posts on Croatia (NDH), there are a couple of minor points regarding what might be related to translation - I have encountered this problem on many occasions, mainly while serving with the EU in Western Herzegovina in the '90's. Firstly, the term "Ustasa" does not translate as "insurrection", but rather as "rebel". While the two English words are certainly related, the term "rebel" is the more correct. A second point relayes to the use of the term "Party of Rights". There are two translations that are closer to a description of the party in question - Party of Croatian Rightd", or Party of the Right. Either could be acceptec as correct. The problem arises from the use of words in the langusage that admit of various concepts and often much is lost in translation.   

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Are you saying the Ustaše was re-established in the nineties? Wikipedia doesn't think so.

Peter

[tonyF]

Peter, no, I am not suggesting that the Ustasa were re-established in the nineties - I cannot see from looking back at my post that I suggest that in any way. A problem used to arise, however in matters relating to the usage of terms based on literal translations. This was often a cause of concern. Of course the HSP (Hrvatska Stranka Prava) still exists; the Ustase do not. Incidentally, I never never consult Wikipedia. I am sure it provides a service, but I prefer more academic sources for histoeical matters. Anyway, I hope this clarifies the fact that I do not in any way suggest that the Ustase resurrected in the '90's.

Regards,

Tony

[Figleaf]

Yes, it does depend on what you do there. Negotiating with locals and translating official documents are quite different things. One of my acquaintances who was there was armed and camouflaged. Another was an EU desk officer who volunteered to go and wouldn't know how to fire a gun if he held one. Their perceptions differed markedly.

What coins did you use there?

Peter

[tonyF]

Hi, Peter. During that period, the DM was the normal unit we used - this was accepted in all pockets. However, we always tried to respect sensitivities and used the kuna in Croat areas, Serbian dinar in the RS and the Bosnian dinar in Bosnjak areas (of course now one uses the Bos. mark, but that came later). Additionally, in Montenegro, the Italian lira was quite acceptable. The DM probably enjoyed the most widespread use/acceptance - apart from the occasional refusal by some nationalistic factions. I think what you say about perception is true - I recall that those of us who interfaced with the population (whether as negotiators, observers or military) had a rather different perception than others. Oddly, the people who demonstrate the most obvious compassion during and just after a conflict are the soldiers. I suppose my own role may have caused me to form opinions of those particular conflicts that are rather different. I spent a long time there. Regards, Tony   

[zviscevic]

There is a story in Croatian numismatic circles that the author of design, Ivo Kerdić, did not support Ustashi regime and that he was connected with partisan resistance. Therefore he delayed all the time the finish of designs. Also, please note that letter "U" on Ustashi emblem is capital "U", but author uses here small caps "u". Some numismatists treat this as a "political message" to the Ustashi regime.

[zviscevic]

Regarding 500 kuna coins with bust of Pavelic - there exist 2 varieties of head:
- smaller head
- larger head

See images below:

Image is taken from my book about coins and banknotes in ex-Yugoslavian region.

[villa66]

...Also, please note that letter "U" on Ustashi emblem is capital "U", but author uses here small caps "u". Some numismatists treat this as a "political message" to the Ustashi regime.

Fun to know. Thanks!

v.

[tonyF]

Details on Croatian coinage during period of NDH are most interesting. While I have some banknotes from this period, I have never succeeded in finding coins. I have coins from Austro-Hungarian period and of course,  I have good examples of modern Croatian banknotes and coins, including a few Croatian dinar notes that date from the early 90's. I have always been on the lookout for a medieval example of Rugusan coinage. T. 

[zviscevic]

There is only one normal collectable coin from that period: 2 kune 1941.
Other coins are rarities.

Regarding Ragusa: I'm just writing a book (catalog) of the coins of Ragusa. 50% is almost done. I still have 50% to finish. Title ot the book (catalog) will be: Coins of Ragusa.

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I have always been on the lookout for a medieval example of Rugusan coinage.

Some medieval Balkan coins are here. Work on some illustrations is in progress.

Peter