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Same denomination and same year, but different design and different metal

Started by Pabitra, June 04, 2014, 11:41:59 AM

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Pabitra

Poland decided to go for plated coins for smaller denominations.
The order was placed with the Royal mint in 2013.
Due to delays, the supply started only in 2014.
In beginning of 2014, a need was felt for 1 Grosz coins.
Warsaw mint minted them with old specifications, namely Brass and old design.
Then the supply came from the Royal mint.

Thus for the same year (2014), there are two coins of same denomination with different designs and alloy and both are legal tender.
This must be definitely the only example of its kind.

<k>

Quote from: Pabitra on June 04, 2014, 11:41:59 AM
Thus for the same year (2014), there are two coins of same denomination with different designs and alloy and both are legal tender.
This must be definitely the only example of its kind.

Not really the "one of a kind" I intended for this topic, but interesting nevertheless. I would actually be surprised if this is the first time that this has happened in history. If not, you could be sent to prison for spreading false rumours.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Pabitra

Quote from: <k> on June 04, 2014, 12:52:14 PM
If not, you could be sent to prison for spreading false rumours.

Oh, I thought there was no vacancy in the  Tower of London?  ;)

dheer

Quote from: Pabitra on June 04, 2014, 11:41:59 AM
Thus for the same year (2014), there are two coins of same denomination with different designs and alloy and both are legal tender.
This must be definitely the only example of its kind.

Not sure, Indian definitives is replete with examples where a coin of same denomination is minted in different design and metal ... essentially phasing out old design and adopting new one ...
http://coinsofrepublicindia.blogspot.in
A guide on Republic India Coins & Currencies

Pabitra

Quote from: dheer on June 10, 2014, 08:02:46 AM
Not sure, Indian definitives is replete with examples where a coin of same denomination is minted in different design and metal ... essentially phasing out old design and adopting new one ...

Some specific examples please.
Please note that they should be in same year.

Figleaf

British Guyana. The regular series of minor coins runs parallel with a particularly awkward Franklin mint series in different metals and designs dated 1976-1980. Of course, the FM series was legal tender and did not circulate, illustrating once again how irrelevant legal tender status is.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

<k>

Quote from: Figleaf on June 10, 2014, 11:53:13 PM
British Guyana. The regular series of minor coins runs parallel with a particularly awkward Franklin mint series in different metals and designs dated 1976-1980. Of course, the FM series was legal tender and did not circulate, illustrating once again how irrelevant legal tender status is.

Peter

Interesting point. Guyana has been independent for decades, though, so it's certainly not "British Guyana" any more.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

natko

It's definitely VERY common occurrence. However, I'm not sure how many 21st ct. examples we have and I was surprised by this move myself. Especially since there were limited edition of pieces from 2013 which were reportedly not released to circulation, but we have two full years of both designs.
Since I've noticed it so many times, I went by the catalog, skipping Afghanistan and coming to Albania, where two totally different 1 lek coins were issued in 1988. Both metal and design are different and both were circulation coins, no matter for decades earlier 1 leke was made in Al.

https://www.google.hr/search?q=albania+1+lek+1988&num=30&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=9Hz&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=-GirU4PHJIPuOf_ugNgM&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ

In the next year they also introduced new 2 leke which was larger and of metal that wasn't used before. Two designes again for the same year although one is commemorative, which should not be an issue here, there are many commemoratives around minted every year for circulation. But this one is so rare I don't even know how it ended up in circulation. Many Albanians who collected in these times never saw it as a payment and I have been searching it for years to complete my Albanian collection ;)

Pabitra

Quote from: natko on June 26, 2014, 02:31:24 AM
It's definitely VERY common occurrence. However, I'm not sure how many 21st ct. examples we have.

You could have got me there, natko.
Perhaps, I was thinking only of regular coin issuing countries.
Albania did issue 1 Leke in Aluminium and Copper Nickel in 1988. Perhaps, the mint master overstepped his authority, but the design is same.
It is confirmed by their national Bank (see Albania 1988).
However, I do not count Albania as a regular coin issuing country since its issues are irregular; See their 10 Leke and 20 Leke. Every issue is with change of alloy. see the series.
Such things happen in countries where the economy is controlled.
North Korea is another example. There the mint master was executed for minting coins in Aluminium even when there was no alternative.

It is also common where contract is awarded for a consideration to a private mint.
21st century example is from Cook Islands. 1 dollar of 2010 is both bimetallic and Copper Nickel.
An Australian friend of mine who was in Cook Islands last month, confirmed that bimetallic Dollar was never seen on the Island by anyone so far.

andyg

I've an idea Malaysia minted both sorts of 5/10/20/50 Sen in 2011?
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

dheer

Quote from: Pabitra on June 10, 2014, 10:49:27 AM
Some specific examples please.
Please note that they should be in same year.

India Coins:
1 paise - 1962 - Bronze and Nickel Brass [Same Design / Different Alloy]
10 Paise - 1971 - Nickel-Brass and Aluminum [Different Design / Different Alloy]
10 paise - 1988 to 1991 - Aluminum and Stainless Steel [Different Design / Different Alloy]
25 Paise - 1988 to 1990 - CuproNickel and Stainless Steel [Different Design / Different Alloy]
50 Paise - 1988 to 1990 - CuproNickel and Stainless Steel [Different Design / Different Alloy]
1 Rupee - 2004 - Old / Unity [Different Design / Same Alloy]
1 Rupee - 2011 - Mudra/New Rupee[Different Design / Same Alloy/Different Size]
2 Rupees - 2007  - Unity/Mudra [Different Design / Same Alloy]
2 Rupee - 2011 - Mudra / New Rupee[Different Design / Same Alloy/Different Size]

Not to forget the Rs 5 commemorative from 2005 to 2008 that came in 2 metals Cupro-Nickel / Steel



http://coinsofrepublicindia.blogspot.in
A guide on Republic India Coins & Currencies

Pabitra

Quote from: dheer on June 27, 2014, 06:34:52 AM
1 paise - 1962 - Bronze and Nickel Brass [Same Design / Different Alloy]
1 Paisa
The design had to be different, so not valid.

Quote from: dheer on June 27, 2014, 06:34:52 AM
10 Paise - 1971 - Nickel-Brass and Aluminum [Different Design / Different Alloy]
10 paise - 1988 to 1991 - Aluminum and Stainless Steel [Different Design / Different Alloy]
25 Paise - 1988 to 1990 - CuproNickel and Stainless Steel [Different Design / Different Alloy]
50 Paise - 1988 to 1990 - CuproNickel and Stainless Steel [Different Design / Different Alloy]

Yes. You appear to be right. I have no data pertaining to 20th century coins so can not comment.

Quote from: dheer on June 27, 2014, 06:34:52 AM
1 Rupee - 2004 - Old / Unity [Different Design / Same Alloy]
1 Rupee - 2011 - Mudra/New Rupee[Different Design / Same Alloy/Different Size]
2 Rupees - 2007  - Unity/Mudra [Different Design / Same Alloy]
2 Rupee - 2011 - Mudra / New Rupee[Different Design / Same Alloy/Different Size]
The alloy have to be different, so not valid.
This is due to the reason that mints in India are earmarked for the region and have specific directions to consume all blanks and dies, before switching over to next blank or design. Thus such overlaps do not get noticed so often. Mints continue to produce coins with old dies of one year even up to July next year. So no wonder, you find all possible combinations including mules and other variety of errors. Also, ministry of Finance comes out with change orders in the middle of the year, to be effective with immediate effect. In many countries, like Sweden ( new series to come in Oct 2015, announced in 2013) or United Kingdom ( New 1 pound coin, announced in 2014, to be issued in 2017), the circulation coins are planned much in advance.

Quote from: dheer on June 27, 2014, 06:34:52 AM
Not to forget the Rs 5 commemorative from 2005 to 2008 that came in 2 metals Cupro-Nickel / Steel
We were referring to general circulation coins only. However, for your information, these coins are disputed.
India follows a peculiar pattern of issuing commemorative coins. The commemorative coins are released in a grand function by the sponsoring ministry or state. The small number of coins are got made by them and distributed to attendees.  After a considerable gap, the Ministry of Finance approves ( and some times rejects) their issue. Then the coins get notified by Reserve Bank of India, just the day it starts issuing them.
The coins which got rejected were Telecom (2 Rupees, Released 17th May 2005, Never Issued) and Gur ta Gaddi (10 Rupees, Released 7th October 2008, Never Issued). Some get issued after long time like  Bhagat Singh (5 Rupees, Released 27th Sept 2008, Issued 2012).
Indian Mints are well known for not keeping the sanctity of dates.
All these 5 Rupees coins, were released during 2005 to 2008, using technical specification of Copper Nickel coins but were issued after 2008, with specifications of Stainless Steel coins, which came in to force only in 2008.
A coin is coin only when that stamped piece of metal is duly notified by the specific authority duly constituted for the purpose.
None of the Copper Nickel coins were ever notified by Reserve Bank of India. Kindly do check your records. Legally speaking, the are just pieces of patterns, who are recognised as coins due to sheer ignorance on the legal aspects. 




dheer

Quote from: Pabitra on June 30, 2014, 12:12:25 PM
A coin is coin only when that stamped piece of metal is duly notified by the specific authority duly constituted for the purpose.
None of the Copper Nickel coins were ever notified by Reserve Bank of India. Kindly do check your records. Legally speaking, the are just pieces of patterns, who are recognised as coins due to sheer ignorance on the legal aspects.

I think we are digressing here.
Quite a few Cupro-Nickel [and their steel equivalents] have been notified by Reserve Bank of India and the press release is available on the RBI's website. I recollect SBI, ONGC, KVIC, Tilak etc. For older ones like Dandi March / MB etc the notifications maybe have been paper ... as there is no electronic form of notifications any coins before 2008. I don't track paper's
http://coinsofrepublicindia.blogspot.in
A guide on Republic India Coins & Currencies

Bimat

Quote from: dheer on June 30, 2014, 01:53:27 PM
Quite a few Cupro-Nickel [and their steel equivalents] have been notified by Reserve Bank of India and the press release is available on the RBI's website. I recollect SBI, ONGC, KVIC, Tilak etc. For older ones like Dandi March / MB etc the notifications maybe have been paper ... as there is no electronic form of notifications any coins before 2008. I don't track paper's

+1.

RBI press releases must be still there on website if someone wants to dig up... ;)

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Bimat

It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.