Author Topic: Help! Can Someone Translate This ? AV Dinar KhwarezmShah Al-a din Muhammad  (Read 1271 times)

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Offline Ancientnoob

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I purchased this coin from a dealer I have done business with previously ParsCoins. I spotted this on the 'bay and was able to make a good deal for the specimen. It came only partially translated. It is attributed as Khwarezm Shah Al-a din Muhammad II. Dated AH 61X. Mint of Ghazna, Afghanistan. The coin is majestic in appearance to say the least. The coin is 27 mm x 6.14 grams.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 01:29:04 PM by THCoins »
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Offline THCoins

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Re: Help! Can Someone Translate This For me ?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2015, 11:17:56 AM »
No references here, but lets see how far we get.
The side in the left picture starts easily. You should be able to recognize this on Islamic coins because this is the Kalima which is almost always there:

La Ilaha Illa Allah             : لا إله إلا الله
Muhammad Rasul Allah     : محمد رسول الله

Then comes a reference to the Caliph of Baghdad:
Nasir din Allah                 : الناصر دين الله

The last line is to blurred to read.

The other side on the right picture starts with "Al-Sultan".
Will have to look in detail later to fill this in further. But i think it starts with his standard title
somewhat like: al-Sultan / al-Azam Ala al-Dunya / wa al-Din Abu'l Fath Muhammad / bin Sultani...
Will come back to this later is not someone else already has filled this in for you.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Help! Can Someone Translate This For me ?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2015, 11:40:38 AM »
Good going, TH. I got as far as the Kalima...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Ancientnoob

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Re: Help! Can Someone Translate This For me ?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2015, 01:57:21 PM »
No references here, but lets see how far we get.
The side in the left picture starts easily. You should be able to recognize this on Islamic coins because this is the Kalima which is almost always there:

La Ilaha Illa Allah             : لا إله إلا الله
Muhammad Rasul Allah     : محمد رسول الله
Quote
Then comes a reference to the Caliph of Baghdad:
Nasir din Allah                 : الناصر دين الله

The last line is to blurred to read.

The other side on the right picture starts with "Al-Sultan".
Will have to look in detail later to fill this in further. But i think it starts with his standard title
somewhat like: al-Sultan / al-Azam Ala al-Dunya / wa al-Din Abu'l Fath Muhammad / bin Sultani...
Will come back to this later is not someone else already has filled this in for you.

Most excellent THC thanks!!!  That led me to here

http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=54460

The seller includes the title " burhān amir al-muíminin" I am not sure if that is correct all the coins shown are from a different mint. Does that matter? Also I looked at examples of A-1712 and the weight distribution is huge from 2 grams - 7 grams. Figure there would be tighter control on gold weight, unless this is a multi-Dinar (?)

http://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=11809
"Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it."

- Publius Syrius

Offline THCoins

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Re: Help! Can Someone Translate This For me ?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2015, 05:59:33 PM »
I know nothing of the gold denominations. Also i don't know what comprizes the Album 1712 number, whether this is a group from different mints or a single issue.
Quote
The seller includes the title " burhān amir al-muíminin"
That helps ! with a little guessing we can complete the side on the Left picture as:

Nasir din Allah                                       : الناصر دين الله
Amir al-muminim (leader of the faithfull) : أمير المؤمنين

OK now the other side:
The  "burhān" helps, cause i glued this partly to Sultan to get Sultani which was wrong.

Al-sultan                                               : السلطان
al-Azam Ala al-Dunya                             : علاء الدنیا Some guessing here
wa al-Din Abu'l Fath Muhammad             : و الدین، ابو الفتح محمد
bin Sultan Burhan                                  : ابن السلطانبرهان
Amir al-muminim                                   : أمير المؤمنين

What do you think ?

Anthony

Offline Ancientnoob

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Re: Help! Can Someone Translate This For me ?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2015, 06:43:09 PM »

What do you think ?

Anthony

I think I cant thank you enough. I think if I don't study more I'm gonna fail the test. Where  does the legend begin and end on in the margin? Which components are there? This is the mint and date?
"Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it."

- Publius Syrius

Offline THCoins

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Re: Help! Can Someone Translate This For me ?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2015, 07:33:04 PM »
There is not enough of the margin text to allow a reliable reading by me.
I think the date is in the margin on the side in the right picture. The date often has a formula like "In de name of God, this coin was struck in XplaceX in the year YYY". Year is "Sanat", that could be located at 7 o'clock. Then come the yearnumbers in words. The parts of the yearnumber are usually devided by "Wa", like 600 and ten and eight. Wa is the character which looks like 9 at 4 o'clock. But i can't reliably read the numbers to both sides of it.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 08:01:11 PM by THCoins »

Offline Ancientnoob

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Re: Help! Can Someone Translate This For me ?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2015, 03:11:41 AM »
 :applause: :like:

I love how you not only provided the translation but explained to me the components and location. I dont know what I would do without out you guys!

Thanks so much THC.
"Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it."

- Publius Syrius

Offline Bimat

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Help! Can Someone Translate This For me ?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 07:07:14 AM »
This is highly extra ordinary work! :o :o :o

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

Offline Quant.Geek

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Re: Help! Can Someone Translate This For me ?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 06:22:58 PM »
 :rock: :applause:
A gallery of my coins can been seen at FORVM Ancient Coins