Greek or modern fake?

[Figleaf]

With impeccable female logic, my daughter declared that she knew I didn't collect Greek coins, therefore she'd bought this one, as I wouldn't have it. Correct and this is now the oldest coin in my collection. The seller identified the coin as:

silver tetrobol, Euboia-Histaia, 200 - 146 BC

obv: nymph's head, Histaia wearing vine wreath
rev: Histaia seated on stern of galley, holding trophy stand (I read ISTI   AIEON)

On checking, I found that many forgeries exist. The dealer is unknown to me, not a coin dealer but a respected dealer in fossiles and minerals. At least one of the coins in Coinarchives looks pretty much like this one. What do you think?

Also, Euboea is an island. Is Histaia an alternative name for the island or is it a town on the island? Some sites describe the obv as head of maenad in vine wreath. I have learned that nymphs ar a sub-category of maenads. Which is the more correct description?

Peter

[lehmansterms]

The Histaia tetrobol is one of the most common Greek silver coins - right up there with Alexander the Great drachmae, etc.

The style of this one is particularly fine, I don't see anything to immediately condemn it.

Here's a couple from my collection:
http://www.stoa.org/gallery/album175/Histiaia_Tetrobol and
http://www.stoa.org/gallery/album175/Histiaia

As you can see, the styles can vary widely.  Although the wisdom of "why bother to fake a cheaper, common coin?" has been pretty well laid to rest with things like the rash of fake uncleaned LRB's a few years ago, I'd think anyone making high-quality forgeries of Greeks would have 'bigger fish to fry" these days.

Mark

[lusomosa]

Greetings ,

I fully agree with Mark.
It is a very common coin and one can not really say for the picture. It should be alright.
The theoretical weight of such coins is about 2.7 g.
Normally they are found with weights between 2.4 and 2.6 g

LP

[Figleaf]

Thanks, guys. It's not important to me whether or not the coin is common. It's a very welcome gift and it's excellent to know that my daughter hasn't been had.

Can you help me with my other questions?

Peter

[lehmansterms]

Peter,

The attachment is a detail from the map of Central Greece in Sear's GC&TV.
As you can see, Histiaia is a town (or perhaps "city-state" is more accurate before the unity wrought by Hellenistic culture in general and the Pax Romana in specific) on the northern end of the Island of Euboia.

As for whether you might call the portrait a Maenad, a Nymph, or "female head", it rather depends on whose reference work you're using.  Since I copied the map from Sear, I'd go on to quote Sear when he says: "Hd. of Nympth Histiaia r., wreathed with vine."  He lists 4 varieties, out of the many which exist.  3 are the "wreathed with vine" type, 1 is "Hair in sphendone", which is sort of a small "turban" or band creating a bun on top of the head.  His #'s for these varieties run from SG 2495-2498 and mostly deal with varieties of reverse - is Histiaia holding a naval standard? Is there a trident-head, aplustre or thunderbolt beneath or ornamenting the galley? etc.

Additionally, and I think cogently to the subject, he says: "The precise date of this extensive coinage is difficult to determine and is the subject of controversy. The bulk of it would appear to belong to the latter part of the century [4th, BC], and it may have commenced with the cessation of silver issues for the Euboian League circa 267 B.C. There are numerous imitations, of poor style and rough execution [not yours, though], which would seem to have been produced in Macedon just prior to the Roman victory over Perseus in 168 B.C.

The fact of the matter is that nearly all important coinages were imitated in the hinterlands by folks loosely associated with the cultures whose coins they copied.  These are often called "Danubian Celtic" imitations and the later copies of coinages like the familiar Thasos tetradrachm will often show marked Celtic artistic influences with design elements changing in fantastical manner - like a roll of hair morphing into a scorpion, etc.  Where, however, one draws the geographical line between the backwaters of Hellenistic culture and the beginning of Gallic Celtic culture is not particularly clear.

Since this issue is from Histiaia, I think it may well be best to call it, as does David, "The Nymph Histiaia"  Now, she may be ranked among the Maenads, depending on whose mythology you're reading.  I'm afraid I can't comment quickly since my daughter "borrowed" my mythology references a few years back and I haven't seen them since - however my 1st granddaughter did wind up being named "Persephone".

Mark

[translateltd]

What is causing the slightly coppery look under the nose and chin, and on most of the reverse?  Is it just a poor silver alloy?  I have no knowledge of this series at all but my first impression would be that it was plated.  I didn't really feel comfortable about the lettering style when I first saw the image either, but again I'm not an expert in these.

[Figleaf]

The real hing looks lke good silver. However, owing to its high relief, light was leaking into the scanner. I tried to adjust the colours, but couldn't get it completely right.

Peter

[lusomosa]

Hi guys,

The style of the coin and the text may look "strange" or incomplete but that is normal is this very extensive series ( to answer the opportume remark by translateltd ).
These coins were made during a very instable period of Greek History . One may ask : "When was is Stable ?"  .
Anyway, Macedonia was loosing its military power, The Gauls attacked Greece and  other Federations adjacent to the Greek world where emerging. Akarnania and Aetolia ( NW Greece ) established themselfs as a power against Macedonia and Rome was Starting to influence more and more Greek politics.
Mark mentions above that there is a possibility that many of these coins were in fact minted for the war efford of macedonia against the Romans ( prior 168 BC ) .
That would explain the rough style of many known coins . They were taken home probably by mercenaries who only accepted coins they recognized. The same is true for Drachms of Rhodian style also minted during the same war efford to satisfy the demands for Eastern Greeks who were used to the Rhodian coinage ( which was the international coinage of the islands and Turkey ) .

LP

Bellow one othe example of very crud style sold by Stacks ( US ) some weeks ago. 

[lusomosa]

Here is one of much better style.
Probably from the original series from the town itself.

LP

[Figleaf]

That's a real beauty, Lusomosa. I am indeed struck by the variety in quality and execution in the series. When I first saw my coin, I had the impression that Histaia's legs were on each side of the prow, but I've come to realize that she is elegantly draped on one side only, though this is clearer on some coins than on others. In this and other ways, these coins are a comment on how art suffers in uncertain times, how you can even descend from a previous high to a lower level.

What's at least as interesting is the historical background. In school, Greek history stopped after Alexander the Great and the next time we saw Greece, it was part of the Roman empire. Likewise, I heard little of Roman expansion between the Etruscans and the Gauls I'll have to look into this transitional period.

Peter