Author Topic: Zangids of Mosul, Badr al-Din Lulu, 631 AH S&S type 68  (Read 3115 times)

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Offline Pellinore

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Zangids of Mosul, Badr al-Din Lulu, 631 AH S&S type 68
« on: May 25, 2015, 09:02:55 PM »
Thanks everybody for your friendly welcome.

Here's a coin I like a lot. It's an AE dirhem of the Artuqids of Hisn Kayfa and Amid, under the reign of Fakhir al-Din Qara Arslan (1144-1174 AD). 30 mm, 11,14 gr.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 09:23:47 PM by THCoins »

Offline THCoins

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2015, 10:20:32 PM »
Very nice coin i also like a lot ! And i think Picasso would to.

Offline bagerap

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2015, 10:26:26 PM »
This coin bears an image which I'm not used to seeing on Islamic coins. Was this usual at this time?

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2015, 11:48:25 PM »
It's an Artuqid coin from one of the Turkish military governors of Eastern Anatolia and Northern Mesopotamia (following the waning of the Seljuqs) who minted fascinating coins with pictures based on Ancient or Byzantine coins.

Offline Manzikert

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2015, 11:50:21 PM »
Hi Pellinore

I like this type a lot too, but I'm afraid it is actually a coin of the Zengid Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 H (1233 AD) Spengler & Sayles type 68.

My example below (I wish it had the whitish coating yours has which improves the contrast so much), 7.62 gm, 26 mm. Your example is larger and heavier than average (S&S give 24-28 mm and 6.5-8 gm, but they note a few as heavy as 11.53 gm.)

These figural types from the Artukids, Zengids and others are a strange and fascinating aberration amongst Islamic coinages but seem so common for a relatively short time in this area, pulling in influences from Greek, Roman and Byzantine prototypes (all of Qara Arslan's are based on Byzantine) as well as astrological and other themes.

Alan

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2015, 12:06:08 AM »
After posting, I checked the coin (should have done that before), and of course you are right. But I only have the second vol. of Spengler and Sayles.

Paul
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 10:03:12 AM by Pellinore »

Offline bububoy

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2015, 05:14:14 AM »
WoW Alan !
isn't this coin in a spectacular condition, i too have a similar coin but am not sure, may be you would be able to attribute it for me.

mahe

Offline bububoy

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2015, 05:21:26 AM »
Both the examples i have, are in very much worn conditions. could you please let me know your opinion.
thanks in advance.

Zengid of Mosul, Izz ad-Din Masud II 607-615 H (1211-1218 AD), S&S 65.1, 607 H
12.53g,28.4mm



Zengid of Sinjar, Qutb al-Din Muhammed bin Zengi 594-616 H (1197-1217 AD), S&S 81, known dated 596, 598, 599 and 600 H, date uncertain.
11.49g,25.7mm


mahe
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 12:52:01 AM by bububoy »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2015, 07:52:53 AM »
It's easy to see why it's one of your favourites. Outstanding character with so much of the text visible. The Picasso eye is indeed something that makes you sit up straight. Did you read the text?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2015, 11:29:05 AM »
Now I did, sort of, using Spengler & Sayles Vol. II and Richard Plant's An Introduction to Arabic Coins, p. 84. I believe the texts are identical (as far as they are on my coin), do they all carry the year 631 (and are they all from Mosul)?
I'm afraid I mixed up two descriptions. The coin depicted weighs 6,70 gr., diameter 23,09 mm (obverse 12 o'clock).
Paul

Offline Manzikert

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2015, 10:43:57 PM »
mahe

Sorry for the delay, I missed your post earlier.

Upper coin: Zengid of Mosul, Izz ad-Din Masud II 607-615 H (1211-1218 AD), S&S 65.1, 607 H

The portrait on the obverse is obviously based on a Classical original but it is uncertain whether it is Greek (Seleucid?) or Roman


Lower coin: Zengid of Sinjar, Qutb al-Din Muhammed bin Zengi 594-616 H (1197-1217 AD), S&S 81, known dated 596, 598, 599 and 600 H but date uncertain on yours.

The obverse is based on a coin of Caracalla from Edessa holding a shield and sceptre.

Alan

Offline Manzikert

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2015, 10:49:08 PM »
Paul

Yes, they are all dated 631 from Mosul, and as they are relatively common S&S suggest that they were struck for several years [edit: Album says perhaps 10 years] with a frozen date.

That weight and diameter fit much better with S&S's figures  :).

Alan
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 11:07:10 PM by Manzikert »

Offline Manzikert

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2015, 11:06:10 PM »
Peter

Unfortunatel I can't read more than a few words of Arabic, but luckily S&S write out and translate all the legends, so I at least know what they say.

I got this piece over 25 years ago and haven't seen many better ones since. The fun thing is that if you look closely at the reverse it is actually overstruck on a coin of Nasir al-Din Mahmud (S&S 67) showing a figure seated cross-leged and holding a crescent like this one from Zeno. You can just see his knees and the stars above them and faint traces of the crescent.

Alan

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2015, 11:56:33 PM »
That took a really long stare, Manzikert, but I think I see one knee, part of the legend and part of the crescent now. What an exceptional quality coin on the left!

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline bububoy

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Re: Badr al-Din Lulu from Mosul, 631 AH S&S type 68
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2015, 12:43:53 AM »
Peter

Unfortunatel I can't read more than a few words of Arabic, but luckily S&S write out and translate all the legends, so I at least know what they say.

I got this piece over 25 years ago and haven't seen many better ones since. The fun thing is that if you look closely at the reverse it is actually overstruck on a coin of Nasir al-Din Mahmud (S&S 67) showing a figure seated cross-leged and holding a crescent like this one from Zeno. You can just see his knees and the stars above them and faint traces of the crescent.

Alan

dear Alan,
a very impressive piece ! Its seldom you come across the "watermelon eater"(that is how i attribute these types of coins) in such condition.
mahe