Author Topic: Klosterneuburg  (Read 2059 times)

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Offline Prosit

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Klosterneuburg
« on: March 06, 2015, 04:37:01 PM »
Here is a token that is interesting enough Austrian  :) and looks like it may have been used in a lunatic asylum...cough...cough....I mean a mental health facility.
Klosterneuberg in lower Austria and the facility is Irrenanstalt. (State Facility?)

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.psychiatrische-landschaften.net/node/168&prev=search
 
A friend of mine got this and says it is 18mm and the same design on each side.
It seems the facility operated between 1869/70 -1920/22. So maybe it is a 1 heller?

Anyone have this in a catalog?

Dale
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 07:57:54 PM by Afrasi »

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Klosterneuberg
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 11:26:15 PM »
AFAIK there is still no catalogue for Austrian tokens, but additionally I wait for an answer of an Austrian friend.

The town's name is Klosterneuburg and not Klosterneuberg.

Offline Prosit

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Re: Klosterneuberg
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2015, 11:48:01 PM »
True. A name is a name and I got it wrong.

Berg means hill and burg means castle

Dale

AFAIK there is still no catalogue for Austrian tokens, but additionally I wait for an answer of an Austrian friend.

The town's name is Klosterneuburg and not Klosterneuberg.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Klosterneuberg
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 09:38:17 AM »
Irrenanstalt - the Swedish verb irra means to wander around in a daze, be confused. I could see "Irrenanstalt" meaning "institution for the confused" if the German cognate word means much the same thing.

Offline malj1

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Re: Klosterneuberg
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2015, 12:10:39 PM »
:like: that.

Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Klosterneuberg
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2015, 01:14:35 PM »
You like the lunatic asylum?  :o    ;)


The infinitive "irren" has two meanings, to be wrong ("sich irren") and wandering confused around ("herumirren").
The adverb "irr" means to be not sure about something.
The adjective "irr" means something between heavily confused and totally crazy.
The substantive "der Irre (m) / die Irre (f) / die Irren (pl)" meant in earlier times persons being crazy/mad in a clinical manner.
These words incl "Irrenanstalt" are no more in use today, only in a bad insulting way.

Offline Prosit

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Re: Klosterneuberg
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2015, 02:15:15 PM »
I wonder what such a token could be used for in such an institution. Not sure they are much better today but in that time frame they were absolutely horrible and often hellish. Maybe a reward for good behavior but for what use?

Dale

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Klosterneuberg
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015, 02:39:15 PM »
It could be internal currency. One way of reducing the likelihood of escape would be to ensure that an escapee would have no way of supporting himself once on the outside. On the other hand, there was probably a need for commerce of some kind inside, funded by the inmates' own assets or donations from their families. Allowing them coin of the realm to spend within the institution could as said be dangerous as they could easily buy train tickets or whatever if they escaped with it, so instead they were forced to convert their money into tokens valid only in the institution.

The same is probably true of the various poorhouse tokens that exist.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Klosterneuberg
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 03:54:33 PM »
I am pretty sure FosseWay being correct. It is something similar to prison money.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Klosterneuburg
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2015, 08:07:00 PM »
I got an answer from my Austrian friend. The token seems to be in Vol III (foreign tokens in German language) of Menzel. I have only Vol I and II. I was told, there are two pieces of "1", one in Cu and one in brass.

p.s.: I corrected the headline of the thread to make searches easier.

Offline Prosit

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Re: Klosterneuburg
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2015, 01:23:11 PM »
What is the exact name of this third volume?...I can't find it. I knew there were two but was unaware of the third one.
Dale


I got an answer from my Austrian friend. The token seems to be in Vol III (foreign tokens in German language) of Menzel. I have only Vol I and II. I was told, there are two pieces of "1", one in Cu and one in brass.

p.s.: I corrected the headline of the thread to make searches easier.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Klosterneuburg
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2015, 04:38:02 PM »
Menzel, Peter: Deutsche Notmünzen und sonstige Geldersatzmarken im Ausland - Deutsche Marken im Ausland und ausländische Marken mit deutscher Schrift. Gütersloh, 1997.

The newest edition has these tokens integrated in the two new volumes. So the title changed a little bit:
Menzel, Peter: Deutschsprachige Notmünzen und Geldersatzmarken. Gütersloh, 2005.

Offline malj1

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Re: Klosterneuburg
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 01:32:20 AM »
There is a useful mention of this token here Quote:

From the A-sylum to the E-sylum! just acquired, an approximately heller/groschen/pfennig-sized token from the Klosteneuburg Irrenanstalt, alternatively the Lower Austrian "State Lunatic Asylum" at Klosterneuburg, an establishment which was active from c.1869/70 to c.1920/22. Whether the denomination of the piece equated with any of those monetary units is anybody's guess; the unit of currency may just have been internal. The actual diameter is just under 18mm and the design is the same on both sides.

Amongst the various information available about the issuer online, almost all in German, is this fairly reasonable translation:
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.psychiatrische-landschaften.net/node/168&prev=search


The editor mentions too; Are there others out there? Tokens are like cockroaches - if you see one, there are usually quite a number more where that one came from.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.