Author Topic: Some more scarcer Jitals  (Read 3245 times)

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Offline THCoins

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Some more scarcer Jitals
« on: February 27, 2015, 08:43:55 PM »
Over the last weeks a small pile of coins was sitting on my desk, waiting to be sorted, catalogged and photographed. I did not have much spare time, but am trying to make the pile smaller, and placing some more interesting specimen in this thread.
The first one is a modest Jital issued under Khwarezm Shah Ala-ud-din Muhammad (1200-1220 AD).
This was one of those unattributed low-cost coins likely ignored by many. On both sides it is struck off-centre. The lower part of the design and text are missing. The side with the geometric pattern shows a few Arab letters at the top spelling "Kurzu", for mintname Kurzuwan. The last part of the name was at the lower part of the coin and thus invisible here.
The reverse reads: Al Sultan / al-a'zam Ala / ud-duniya wa ud-din. The last two lines are missing.
The coin is interesting because the same geometric pattern is used on an elephant jital of Ghorid Ghiyath-ud-din Mahmud (1206-12AD) from the same mint (Tye#150). Looking at the references this one is classified as Tye#272, I found none on Zeno, it seems to be rare.
Bi 17 mm, 2.83 gr.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 09:57:49 AM by THCoins »

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2015, 10:00:24 PM »
Wow, I like that one, very distinct differences to the more usual types we see,  would be good to put on Fb for some of the notables such as Stan Goron to comment
Vic

Offline THCoins

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2015, 11:04:17 AM »
Thanks Vic, i had about the same idea about it standing out from the more common types. I lack the time to delve also into Facebook forums also. But if you want you're free to use the pictures anywhere.
With the second one i could use some of your help or of one of our arabic experts.

This is a bit ragged coin 15 mm, 2.75 grams. It seems to be made of a high lead content silver on a bit of a laminated flan. Pieces have crumbled of. Judging on style and fabric my first ideas were Ghaznavid/Sistan.
The obverse shows remnants of an edge text. I am progressing in reading arab, and am fairly confident in reading the text in the circle. At the top of the circle may be a partial Allah, followed by "la illah illa /  Muhammad / rasul Allah"
I am having more problems with the reverse. The only thing i am really sure of is that the lowest visible line starts with "Abu al- "something.. But because the line below that is gone i can't make a good guess.  Any help in reading or attribution would be appreciated.

Update: was already working on another one, but encountered a likely match for this: Tye#136, Which is a Ghorid issue. I had previously excluded this, because my reverse legend did not seem to match with the Tye transcription. Looking better, it does have my "Abu al-.." line, fitting with "Abu 'l muzzaffar". Also the "Muhammad bin Sam" would fit with the smal remnant visible at the lower edge of my coin.
The first two lines seemed a less good match. However, i now only noticed that the reading of mr Tye of the second line as "Mu'izz ud duniya wa ud-d" is indicated as uncertain. If this is a Tye#136 type (which again seems to be rare), my specimen would allow a possible verification of the correct reading on this coin. Also the reading of the first line as "as-sultan" could possibly be complemented from my specimen.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 02:58:27 PM by THCoins »

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2015, 03:02:36 PM »
I put the 2nd one on Fb, Stan commented : Unfortunately, the ruler's name is off the bottom of the coin (right-hand image where broken off)

I just added the first coin
Vic

Offline THCoins

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2015, 03:42:59 PM »
Thanks Vic ! In my ignorance i seem to have compiled some rarer coins. Still some to go. Will put the nicer ones in this thread.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2015, 04:11:23 PM »
For the crumbling coins: make sure coin is clean and dry. Smear some clear superglue in the cracks and holes with a pin. Wipe off any excess immediately (mind fingers!) This will reinforce the coin. You can try same with pieces that have already fallen off. Use pincers and magnifier to get them in the correct position. Excellent practice on muscle control. Even a small divergence can ruin the looks of your coin.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline THCoins

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2015, 04:45:56 PM »
Thanks for the concern Peter ! I will do some conservation on the last piece. I just use a little different compound. I use a fluid designed to mount microscope preparation slides. It is a very clear artificial resin, a bit more liquid than glue and dries without shrinking or expanding. In addition it is easily removed with acetone if neccesary.

The third coin on my list is a Ghorid Horesman Jital. I do not believe it is really rare, it is just that this particular type i think is absent both in Tye and on Zeno, I believe it is best cataloged as a minor variation of Tye#131 (Which in itself is common). This is attributed to the rule of Ghiyath-ud-din Muhammad (1163-1203 AD)
The obverse shows the bareheaded mounted horseman holding a spear. There are some dots in the field before, under and above the horse.
The interesting part is the text side. It is not in pristine condition. However, one may guess that the topline reads "Al Sultan".
The visible lines clearly read "al-azam Ghiyath / ud-duniya wa ud-din/ XX Muhammad bin" The XX is unfortunately an unreadable blob for me.
This layout of the text is not included in the Tye Jitals catalog. Because of the unreadable part one might hypothesize that this coin could also belong to the later Ghiyath-ud-din Mahmud bin Muhammad (1206-12AD). However, the layout of the text makes this unlikely, and this type is anyhow also not cataloged under this ruler.
BI 16 mm, 3.24 gr.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 05:44:31 PM by THCoins »

Offline THCoins

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2015, 11:22:07 PM »
Number four it think i can attribute to a specific ruler. But it's not in Jitals, and i could not find one on Zeno.
How i read it:
Obverse: "Al Sultan /  Al azam / ud-duniya wa ud- / din"
Reverse: "Adl / Abu al Fath / Sam bin Muhammad.

The only Sam bin Muhammad i found is Baha-ud-din Sam bin Muhammad (1192-1206AD)  of the Ghorids of Bamiyan. I see some coins in a similar style in Jitals. But this coin is not among the listed types of this ruler. I would gleadly hear alternative readings or attributions.
Bi  16 mm, 3.27 gr.

Offline THCoins

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 06:42:08 PM »
Slowly progressing through my Jitals i have to sort out. Still some interesting specimen between them though.
Number five i also like because it has a bit special character, standing out from the crowd.
The obverse shows a stylized crouching lion facing right. Around that text in arab. At the top "Muhammad" is still partly visible.
The reverse shows an Islamic religious text in a dotted border. La ilah illa / Allah Muhammad /Rasul Allah

This Jital is attributed to Ala-ud-din Muhammad Kwarezmshah. Tye#244. The double border around the lion makes it Tye#244.2.
The mint is unknown. The specimen is worn, but very evenly. The type again seems scarce. I believe Vic once mentioned that he had one, and there's one on Zeno.
AE 16 mm, 2.32 grams
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 04:02:14 PM by THCoins »

Offline THCoins

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 08:20:18 PM »
The last one for now I think again is Ghorid. This because the lowest line on the text side clearly reads Muhammad bin Sam i think. However, i have not succeeded in attributing it as a known type. I believe it fits best with a Muizz al din Muhammad bin Sam type. But this combination of obverse and reverse seems unpublished.
The obverse shows a spectacular horseman with spear pointed downwards. Both the horse and the rider seem to wear armour on their heads. There are some possible Arab characters in the fields. In other types these define the mint. I have not been able to find a match to a specific mint yet though. So help is appreciated. (AE 16 mm 3.34 gr)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 08:17:24 PM by THCoins »

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 08:52:01 PM »
The downward-pointing spear may be symbolically meaningful. In the early middle ages, but also later, a downward-pointing spear was the equivalent of a white flag, the symbol of a negotiator and a sign of reassurance for the locals as a party of warriors rode into town. The general message of the symbol is "I mean no harm, I didn't come to fight".

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline EWC

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 09:32:19 PM »
OK - dragged M (reluctantly) from her book.

She thinks it reads:

saif
al malik
al-a'zam
abu'l -muzzafar
Muhammed bin Sam

Which would seem to make it Muizz as subordinate ruler prior to his brothers death in 1203

Its an unusual type and legend - have not seen one before

Offline THCoins

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2015, 09:51:57 PM »
Rob, thanks for the addition. I should have added my entire proposed reading. It is about the same, only i put in "Sultan" at the top instead. Which would assume that some of the characters are compressed a bit together, but that i think is also not unusual. Does not change the overall meaning though. Happy that you agree on the most likely issuer !

@Peter: Interesting idea ! I think on the different horseman jitals spears are present in all possible positions. Also other objects, like birds are sometimes in the hand of the rider. I do not know of a thorough study on the symbolical meaning of the pictography. However, to interpret, we would first have to know where and when the coins originated, an under what circumstances they were struck. That would be a very difficult undertaking.

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 10:35:23 PM »
a steady stream of rarities appearing  8)  that last one could be depicting something different from a Horse, a Lion perhaps?
Vic

Offline THCoins

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Re: Some more scarcer Jitals
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2015, 08:55:25 AM »
Looking at the head, the snout and the eye sockets i see how you get to a lion. Then looking at the position and shape of the ears i am convinced again it is supposed to be a horse.