Why we should scrap 1p and 2p coins

Started by <k>, February 10, 2015, 01:36:22 PM

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Should the UK abolish the 1p and 2p coins?

Yes
13 (68.4%)
No
4 (21.1%)
Don't know
2 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Voting closed: February 21, 2015, 01:57:29 PM

<k>

Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Figleaf

Found the reactions more entertaining than the article. I had expected the usual public conservatism (the comment by leylandnational is hilarious), but not that the only references to other countries would be to British former colonies. :) Island mentality multiplied by empire mentality?

Are there really no stats on what it costs to make the coins? Why the secrecy?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

EWC

Extract >The Royal Mint doesn't disclose how much it costs to make each of its coins, but it's hard to imagine that for 1p and 2p pieces it would be much less than face value.

Hmmmm.  Praps they could offset this small amount against the colossal  profit they make on £20 notes?

Mostly of course the article just a wind up - I never saw a youngster throwing coppers away - but saw a bunch of columnists claiming they saw it

On the other hand, banks have never liked small change, so I spose a lot all depends on whether society is run for the benefit of people or for the benefit of banks.

Tough call that one

<k>

I would get rid of the 1p, 2p and 5p coins. Goods that cost less than a pound are priced to the penny. If any thing costs more than a pound, it is priced in multiples of 10p. Therefore, the lowest coin should be 10 pence, but we should allow anybody to price to the penny and then round up or down at the till, just as they do in various countries around the world. We would save millions in mining, production and transport costs by getting rid of the lowest coins. In the UK, the worst of the recession is behind us, so most people would not complain.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

EWC

Quote from: <k> on February 10, 2015, 05:16:10 PM
We would save millions in mining, production and transport costs by getting rid of the lowest coins.

Who is this "we"?

Quote from: <k> on February 10, 2015, 05:16:10 PM
In the UK, the worst of the recession is behind us, so most people would not complain.

I feel you need to get out more. 

Interesting though - I like to keep track of the arguments put against small change over the centuries.

On the related matter - should we abolish coins altogether - I once put a critical comment  about bias in a BBC prog on the matter - and got an immediate criticism back from some guy.  I googled his name and first up was a chap employed as a consultant on abolishing coins........

<k>

Quote from: EWC on February 10, 2015, 05:47:48 PM
Who is this "we"?

Society as a whole, which includes you and me and even those who think they live in an ivory tower, as well as planet Earth. Mining, production, energy use - none of this comes free.

Quote
I feel you need to get out more. 

Cheeky.  :P

I did say the worst of the recession was over. However, if you have ever read my Doom Watch topic in the Living Room, you'll know that I think there is really far more to it than this and far worse to come. But let's not get picky.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

andyg

Quote from: EWC on February 10, 2015, 04:56:51 PM
Mostly of course the article just a wind up - I never saw a youngster throwing coppers away - but saw a bunch of columnists claiming they saw it

When I was a lad at secondary school we used to do just that* - and it was 20 years ago.
Nowadays they probably throw pound coins. :-\

*I have a certificate from St Giles' hospice somewhere for collecting them up again and donating them to them.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Figleaf

The worst of the recession is not over. The recession is over since 2013. See graph. Source.

Perception of recession has blown over, though. Second graph, same source (consumer confidence). Did not use the same time scale as the colours become indistinct.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Quant.Geek

The other approach is to issue a 3 cent piece instead.  This way, business owners would not have to worry about revenue lost and the conversion of all their prices as it will still convert properly...
A gallery of my coins can been seen at FORVM Ancient Coins

<k>

Quote from: Quant.Geek on February 10, 2015, 10:07:03 PM
The other approach is to issue a 3 cent piece instead.  This way, business owners would not have to worry about revenue lost and the conversion of all their prices as it will still convert properly...

???  Please explain. We Brits would be shocked if cents became official here.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Quant.Geek

Quote from: <k> on February 10, 2015, 10:09:28 PM
???  Please explain. We Brits would be shocked if cents became official here.

I meant to say pence  ;D.  You can get rid of the 1p and 2p and replace them with the 3p coin instead.  The UK had them as well as the US.  The conversion of prices would still work.  So all the 99p stores, etc can still keep their signs...
A gallery of my coins can been seen at FORVM Ancient Coins

<k>

You're pulling my leg.  :D  The threepence was part of the predecimal system. It was a quarter of a shilling and so easily understood. Apart from in Russia and its former satellites, a 3 unit has not been common in decimal systems.

Furthermore, multiples of 3 pence now would not add up to any other coin.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Quant.Geek

Quote from: <k> on February 10, 2015, 10:14:24 PM
You're pulling my leg.  :D  The threepence was part of the predecimal system. It was a quarter of a shilling and so easily understood. Apart from in Russia and its former satellites, a 3 unit has not been common in decimal systems.

Furthermore, multiples of 3 pence now would not add up to any other coin.

We had a three cent coin in the mid 1800s and yes the 3 pence was pre-decimal.  You miss out on a few denominations, but not all.  It gives you a gradual migration for businesses which is what causes most of the backlash.  You will not be able to do 1, 2, 4, and 7 in pence, but the others are a multiple of 3p, 5p, and 10p.  For 1, 2, 4, and 7, you round up. 


A gallery of my coins can been seen at FORVM Ancient Coins

Figleaf

No need for rounding. For one penny, you give 3+3 and receive 5 in change. For 2 pence you give 3+3+3+3 and receive 10 pence. For 4 pence you give 3+3+3 and receive 5. For 7 pence you give 3+3+3+3 and receive 5. That shows you the weakness of the 3. You need enormous quantities of them, because so many are needed for correct change and cashiers will be dizzy by the end of the day.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

EWC

Quote from: andyg on February 10, 2015, 07:59:08 PM
When I was a lad at secondary school we used to do just that* - and it was 20 years ago.
Nowadays they probably throw pound coins. :-\

Fascinating!

I already spoke to a friend (who has stood playground duty for the last 11 years at a primary school) – they have never seen a single instance of a child throwing coins away, there or anywhere else, aside from wishing well type activity.  I will ask around further, but since I never see people throwing change away, nor do I see stray coins on the pavements above about once a month, I remain unconvinced by the general argument.

Concerning activity at you school, of course I do not doubt your word.  Your use of 'we' and 'they' seems to suggest you used to throw change away as an adolescent but no longer do.  Is that correct?

Any idea what triggered this activity.  Was it a kind of showing off? 

Harry Enfield started to popularise his Loadsamoney character in 1988 which seems the sort of cultural influence that may have operated back them.

My own impression is that in the 1990's the banks, major retailers and governments all promoted financial incompetence at an individual level with an eye to short term gains via easy credit, and popularity at the polls. 

I notice Scotland rather loudly joined the call for an end to austerity this morning too.  Seems to me further 1990's chickens coming home to roost.

Of course all this started earlier.  The name Julian Hodge springs to mind.  Sponsored the writings of Glyn Davies, author of "A History of Money". 

Davis called Hodge  "Merchant Banker and Philanthropist".   Private Eye called him  "the Usurer of the Valleys".