Author Topic: Ghorids of Ghor,Ghiyath al-Din Muhammad bin Sam, Jital with Lion  (Read 3370 times)

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Offline capnbirdseye

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Ghorids of Ghor,Ghiyath al-Din Muhammad bin Sam, Jital with Lion
« on: November 11, 2014, 10:51:50 PM »
This is an odd one, it's rather crude & I suspect it's an early one ?, goggle eyed rider has both arms outwards,
 3.21g Billon
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 07:27:21 PM by THCoins »
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Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 11:08:15 PM »
Here is another of similar type with same legend
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Offline Quant.Geek

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 11:09:58 PM »
Seems like Artuqids, but can't seem to find a match...
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Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 11:14:50 PM »
one more but I think it's different type altogether & not much legend visible
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Offline Overlord

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 02:26:11 AM »
This is an odd one, it's rather crude & I suspect it's an early one ?, goggle eyed rider has both arms outwards,
 3.21g Billon
That looks like a frog riding a lion. And ain't he happy!  :D

Offline Tariq

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2014, 04:57:11 AM »
Last line reads as Muhammad Bin Sam

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 11:18:46 AM »
That looks like a frog riding a lion. And ain't he happy!  :D

I think your right, that is a Lion with a curly mane, is this a known type for Bin Sam?
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Offline saro

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 12:53:14 PM »
Last line reads as Muhammad Bin Sam
I fully agree with Tariq : "Muhammad Bin Sam" is entirely written at bottom of 2nd scan and "al sultan al mu'azzam" at top and middle of 1st one
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Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 01:25:49 PM »
I fully agree with Tariq : "Muhammad Bin Sam" is entirely written at bottom of 2nd scan and "al sultan al mu'azzam" at top and middle of 1st one

Definitely Bin Sam but what about the Lion , is this unusual?

Sultan al-Moazzam Ghiyasud dunya wad deen Muhammad bin Sam [elder brother of Muizuddin Muhammad Ghori]. ]
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Offline THCoins

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 01:32:30 PM »
My first association was the first as Rams: Artuqid , but the inscriptions don't fit with that. Don't know the type for Ghorid Muhammad Bin Sam.
Edit: now home to check references: Tye#135.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 05:53:10 PM by THCoins »

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Unusual horse Jital
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2014, 09:47:45 PM »
More news on this coin!  8) I sent a photo of this coin to Robert Tye who was most excited as it confirms his theory about number 135 in his book where he describes the rider sitting on a Lion but not clear enough to be sure, the other example with unclear Lions head is now in the BM,
It's suggested that this coin type commemorates a poem produced by Khwajah Safi-ud-din. Back in 1990 he recalls receiving criticism of that idea it was suggested that it was a badly engraved horse and the lion was a figment of his imagination so of course he welcomes the corroboration of another coin that sure looks like a lion to him too!
Vic

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unusual horse Jital with Lion!
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2014, 10:09:53 PM »
So now everyone agrees it is Tye 135. Frankly, I don't care much if the story is true or not. It's a great story (of a bad diplomat), therefore I'll believe it. So there!

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Quant.Geek

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Re: Unusual horse Jital with Lion!
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2014, 10:18:29 PM »
 :applause: Perseverance always pays off, and it does help to get out the big guns during these times  ;D.  I do like the story though and hopefully there is some truth to it...
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Offline THCoins

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Re: Unusual horse Jital with Lion!
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2014, 05:17:12 AM »
Nice find and great story !
Perhaps the Artuqids heard this also and therefore copied the design ?  :)
It is even nicer to have a few examples instead of just one !

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Unusual horse Jital with Lion!
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2014, 10:32:06 AM »
Nice find and great story !
Perhaps the Artuqids heard this also and therefore copied the design ?  :)
It is even nicer to have a few examples instead of just one !

Rob Tye added a comment on zeno: Thanks Steve, Vic. Yes I make this a variation on T 135. Thus an issue of Ghiyath, Ghorids of Ghor, 1163-1203. It is only the second really clear specimen I have seen. My guess this a later version than the one in Jitals (now in the BM) since the figures are more stylised. I hypothesised (Jitals p. 52) that this coin was designed for propaganda purposes - showing the Ghorid Sultan riding and thus subjugating the lion - representing the Khwarezmian State. Much as the elephant rider types likely represent the Ghorid conquests in India
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=146420
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