Author Topic: Polish mint marks?  (Read 1986 times)

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Offline Globetrotter

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Polish mint marks?
« on: October 24, 2014, 11:31:17 PM »
Hi,

it's all about the Polish solidus km145:

I've tried to answer a question in another group, but I simply can't find an answer on internet! I've been "googling" for hours now! Maybe some of you can give the answer to which mints these letters correspond?

A
B
C
D
F
G
H
I
L
N
S
V

Thanks in advance

Ole
Ole

If you're interested in coin variants please find some English documentation here:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
and in French on Michel's site (the presentations are not the same):
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/

Offline Gerhard Schön

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Re: Polish mint marks?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2014, 12:40:37 AM »
Hi,

the letters you are wondering about are just the batch numbers running from A to (nearly) Z (V or X).
All these have been minted in Guben (Gubin).

Gerhard
Source: Schön's World Coin Catalogue 46th edition 2018.

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: Polish mint marks?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2014, 10:24:54 AM »
Schoenen Dank, Gerhard,

so I have learned something new today.... again!

Gruesse

Ole
Ole

If you're interested in coin variants please find some English documentation here:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
and in French on Michel's site (the presentations are not the same):
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: Polish mint marks?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2014, 11:04:54 AM »
Hi,

I've forwarded Gerhard's answer to the group in question (numista) and also to George Cuhaj (KM), maybe it'll get into a future edition ::).

Ole
Ole

If you're interested in coin variants please find some English documentation here:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
and in French on Michel's site (the presentations are not the same):
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/

Offline Globetrotter

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Re: Polish mint marks?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 01:53:05 PM »
Hi,

I found this on wikipedia.de with search criterium "guben":

Im Zusammenhang mit den Bestrebungen, das polnische Münzwesen zu reformieren, ließ August III. als König von Polen nicht nur in Grünthal, sondern auch in Guben in der Nähe der damaligen polnischen Grenze riesige Mengen an Kleingeld aus Kupfer prägen. Allein im Jahr 1753 waren es rund 25.000.000 Schillinge und 260.000 Groschen. Da diese Münzen kein Münzmeisterzeichen tragen, lassen sie sich nicht der jeweiligen Münzstätte zuordnen. Als im Jahr 1756 die preußischen Armeen Friedrichs II. im Siebenjährigen Krieg Sachsen besetzten, wurden die Prägungen eingestellt.

This translates more or less into:
 
August III wanted to reform the Polish coin policy, so he opened another coin center, in addition to the one in Gruenthal, in Guben. Enormous amounts of small copper coins were minted here. In only the year 1753 25.000.000 Schillinge and 260.000 Groschen were struck in Guben. Since these coin don't have signs indicating the mint master, it's not possble to assign the coins to where they were struck. In 1756 the Preussians (Friedrich II) took over the area (Saxen) and the striking of coins was stopped.
 
Ole

If you're interested in coin variants please find some English documentation here:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
and in French on Michel's site (the presentations are not the same):
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/

Offline thepanda0

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Re: Polish mint marks?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2015, 03:16:04 PM »
I happen to collect these coppers, so let me share some information.

There are no straightforward records on minting Polish solidus and grosh coins in years 1749-1758, so most of today’s knowledge is pretty much deductive. There is a numismatist Jerzy Chałupski, who decided to gather all available sources and prepare a catalogue of this particular coinage, but he is not ready yet to publish it, so we just need to be patient.

From bits and pieces from his input on forums and his personal blog (http://zbierajmymonety.blogspot.de/) one can understand that there is nothing certain in this topic and a multiple usage of word “probably” is justified.
The coppers were produced probably in four places:
1) Dresden (probably in 1749 only)
2) Grünthal (probably 1750-1751)
3) Guben (probably 1751-1755)
4) somewhere in Prussia after the mint press was robbed (probably groshes from 1758 only).

Letters found on the reverses might be marking different batches, but why did they start from a letter 'S' then? 1749, 1750 and 1751 are found without any marks and then many 1751 solidus/shillings are found with an ‘S’ only. The mint in Guben was managed by von Stein at the time. Perhaps this ‘S’ marks his name and the coins without any mark were produced in Grünthal then. However, why are there also 1752, 53 and 54 coins without any letters if Grünthal’s contract expired in 1751? Tricky issue.

In 1752 and 53 many letters appear on the reverse, namely:
A, B, C, C’, D, F, F’, G, H, I, N, N’, R, S, T, T’, V (apostrophe marks flipping). You must have noticed flipping and lack of several letters. Why would they choose such a complicated system for marking batches? Why would they mark the batches actually? Some competition within the minting team? First letters of employee names? I’m afraid we’ll never know for sure.

In 1754 and 55 there is only one letter appearing – an ‘H’. Interestingly this is the time, when Friedrich Ernst Hertel was assigned as a mint master. Perhaps the ‘H’ marks his surname, but again, why aren't some of the coins of 1754 marked then?

I guess, we’re not ready to state anything on these coppers in catalogues yet.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Polish mint marks?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2015, 03:50:19 PM »
Great stuff, Adam. Sounds like a worthy research project and I am happy you summed it up so neatly.

Here is a bit of speculation, lifted from Irish numismatic history. Disregard the S and the flipped letters and you end up with 12 letters. That reminds me of 12 months. The S may be a mintmaster sign and the flipped letters may be used for a different mint. So why would they want to indicate a month on a coin? Because huge numbers of them were struck and the issue was meant to be an emergency issue, in order to pay the troops. The intention was to pay back the "war loan" after peace had been concluded by calling in the coins month by month. See this post for the Irish coins that inspired the above speculation.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.