Enigmatic Copper; INO Shah Alam II, Najibabad under Awadh?

Started by Overlord, November 29, 2008, 06:41:58 AM

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Overlord

The "obverse" has something resembling the English alphabet "B" (though I strongly suspect it to be part of a Persian inscription). The "reverse" seems to show the Persian numerals "12".

Obverse


Reverse

Rangnath

It is at times like this that I wish we had a data base that could provide searches with "ALL Indian Sub-Continent COINS with both Persian "12" and Copper"; add that to weight and size. 

If only Numismatics received the same funding that is available for INTERPOL.  :(

richie

Rangnath

 I remembered seeing something in Goron and Goenka that reminded me of your coin. No, I don't think that your coin is from the Bahmanis of the Deccan, but this image does illustrate the problem.
In this case, we are dealing with a Bale mark or stylized boat and not Persian letters, at least, I don't think so.
richie

Overlord

Quote from: Rangnath on December 01, 2008, 03:45:09 AM
In this case, we are dealing with a Bale mark or stylized boat
...or



Just kidding ;D. I think you have a valid point.

Oesho

This enigmatic paisa circulated in the Najibabad region and there is some vague evidence that these might have been struck at Jagadri (c.1830). See also: http://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/opac/search/cataloguedetail.html?&priref=100711&_function_=xslt&_limit_=10 I would be interested in more image of these coins, just for research purposes.

Overlord

Wow! Once again, thanks a ton Oesho. I will look in my mystery coin box for similar examples and will post the images if I find any.

Overlord

Found one online that looked pretty similar:


Rangnath

Here is another, from an auction to be completed in less than 2 days in California.  If anyone would like this one, let me know and I will bid on it for you.
richie

Figleaf

If you hold the coin as if it were a latin B, then Overlord's original coin has a straight line and some writing to the right, while the coin Rangnath just posted has a curved line or the edge of the coin to the right. Meanwhile, the other sid seems to fit well. The "B" may occur more than once on the die.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Salvete

There is also a paisa-weight coin that has some similarity to this light takka or double paisa, and it is the date - 1204 with a sort of cross or 4-pointed star replacing the dot which is the Persian '0' - that is the basis of that similarity.  The reverse of the paisa coin (weighing from under 5 grammes to over 6 grammes) is the same as the takkas of Najibabad under Awadh - an upright fish and, in all cases I have seen where it can be read, the regnal year 41.  This reverse is, therefore the normal reverse of a post Rohilla War coin of Najibabad under Awadh, matched up with an obverse exactly similar to a (probably) Jagadhri light takka.  Clearly, the true date of both coins is post-1774, because neither the upright fish nor coins dated 1204 existed before then.  And it seems probable that the elements of both coins, rather than being copied from each other (the two '1204' obverses are too exactly alike to be coincidental) are all copied from another or other coins made in the area.  Since the reverse with RY and upright fish had been in use in Awadh since about RY 17, it seems that the 'Jagadhri' coin has been partly copied from the Najibabad design .  It has also been suggested that the two chevron shapes found on the 'B' side of the light takka are the remnants of the date 1177 or 1188, so where did the 1188 or 1177 date come from?  This is clearly a date from well before, or just before the Rohilla War.  That mixture of styles and periods appears to be typical of a number of copies of Najibabd coins, both from before but mostly after the Rohilla War.  What relevance does all this have, and what might it be telling us about the history of the coins of the area during those very troubled times?  I'm not sure, but I would hazzard a guess that when we find out, it will enlighten us about the numismatics of the area quite a lot.  As Oesho suggested - if anyone has obtained coins of this (or similar) type and can tell us where they were found, what they weigh and anything else about them, then at least two of us on this forum will be glad to have the information to assist with our studies concerning some of the weird coins of the area.  Many Thanks.
Salvete
Ultimately, our coins are only comprehensible against the background of their historical context.

capnbirdseye

Here is another of the same type, parts of legend are readable
Vic